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Please change the Meta, it causes toxicity!

Glaukunur··23 votes·10,410 views

TL;DR Im a crying adc who plays greyscreen-simuator atm I am not a native speaker, so pleasy focus on the content, not the language

Why am I even writing?

I started playing LoL in 2014 after buying my first computer being able to handle the game, and ever since, I really enjoyed playing the game... Untill this season. Never in all those years of playing i experienced such a toxic community, that high amount of tilt, flame, blame, spam-pings and also ragequit or troll. I think in about 80% of all my games, at least one player is abusing chat to annoy his teammates before minute 6 ends. And I think this changed at the end of S2019!

Apart from my own experience, my friends have experienced the same behavior even in games we did not play together, the forum is loaded with threats about how unfun to play this game become. So let´s just assume that there is a REAL increasment of toxicity in LoL the last 6 months. And I blame the Meta out of my experience _ I don´t have data to prove, or to make good assumptions, because i couldn´t find them fast, and did not wanted to do hours of reasearch to get exactly what I want to look at._

So as a first step I want to look at why I am unhappy witht the current status of the game:

  • So obviously either me or my teammates get flamed really often. The amount of blaming for the game increased imensly. But only one type of flame. Personal insult, deathwishes, illnesses and curses I can barely see these days. So teams get really mental about the game.

  • Furthermore I don´t feel like i have any impact on the game - yes, I am a crying adc main. But there are a few adcs which are playable right now, but there is something wrong with them I will recall later. But overall I don´t feel like being able to make a change in the fight - it´s all about when a fight starts. The acual "fight" is almost always a burst or a oneshot lasting not longer than 3 seconds of which you are most of the time CCed.

What I think is the problem of the current Meta: The gameplay feels not rewarding for some reasons - you farm up, do good CSing, try trading with the enemies a little bit, but it´s mostly irrelevant, you really struggle making you game work and you do good. You play consistent and are about to get a small lead... then you do one wrong step get killed or so, and you are too much behind. Gamechanging action happen in a too short time, and I think assasins cause this. They have to wait for a good moment to be successfull. So every engage is about, do you onecombo the enemy, if not, he will do.

There is a missing of real fights - all you see is oneshots And this causes a lack of a rewarding tention, of a real fight where you have to change your positioning while sill attacking, where you can work together, ping in a fight for whom to focus, just doing a diffrence by using your mind in the fight... the way the fight startet is the result of the fight.

So almost every role got some problems in the current state of the game: Caused by a domination of assasins (or better, champion who kill you in one combo in a short amount of time < 3sec)

  • Tanks: Assasins have high burst, but rather low dps over a long time, so a tank is either not tanky enought to survive the burst, or he is OP cause there is no consitant damage to pressure him. So you are either super OP when ahead or no champion when behind.

  • Fighters: Tend to be rather good, because some of them got actual burst potential, but their playstile is not the one of a fighter. At least those who are played (Lee Sin, Irelia, Renekton, ...) others like poppy are not seen these days.

  • Mages: Are good if they have burst like LeBlanc, Katarina, Syndra and so on. Controlmages with continues damage aren´t in a good position.

  • Marksman: Appart from MissFortune, Aphelios and Senna they are rather bad right now. So why are these 3 good?! Ahhhh - they have burst and oneshot potential.

  • Supporter: The champs are generall usefull, but it makes no fun, playing with someone on a lane who is mostly irrelevant because he is dead (yes, i play greyscreensimulator atm)

So as a result of the fast games, and short important action, tention for every role is created:

  • Toplane: OK, not for toplaners, as far as i know. It´s an Island.

  • Jungle: You are super dependant from your team. A losing midlane means no possibility to have pressure in jungle. A losing botlane and you can´t go in fight in bottom river, you can´t do dragon, and so on. But also your team is super dependant from your earlygame, cause you are the first one who get´s level 2 and level 3. You are super tentioned and important, so you get flamed for the smallest mistakes, and even for those who aren´t mistakes.

  • Midlane: You need to assists your jungler, your sidelanes, and perform well on your own lane. But you are also dependant on your jungler. Difficult situation

  • Adc: Don´t even bother -- you are useless.

  • Support: Don´t even bother -- your adc is useless

What are some possibilites for a better Game?

Tanks should be a playable option again. This may can be done, by reducing the overall damage leves - yes, I think we need nerfs, not more and more buffs. Lethality should be changed in a less snowballing way. But tank items shouldn´t be overall buffed, otherwise, tanks will snowball, and have a unfun tank meta. Maybe an increase of some basestats would be a first good step.

I have no idea what to patch, but maybe the deciding factors of balancing need to be increased:

  1. The avarage time-to-kill (ttk) an enemy should stay in a healthy spot for every role and as a distribution for the team. Also the average time-to-die (ttd) of certain roles should be considered. An adc needs to die faster than a toplaner, but pls, make it a relevant amount of time. But it´s not a good game experience when you ttd as adc is below one second, no matter what enemy you are facing.

  2. The varianz in winrate depending on game-length is probaly already an important factor. But I think, shorter avarage games as a result of higher damage spikes is not healthy. On the other side, a too variant winrate depending on game-length (kassadin) is not good either.

  3. The ratio of CCed time to ttd should be in a good spot. If you get killed in 5 seconds but you are hard CCed the whole time, the meta is in a dangerous spot, if it´s not a special teamcomb. Of course this doesn´t apply to kills below one seconds, there cc is about irrelevant.

  4. Combine the listed factors, look for high variances, try new ones, don´t stick to simple winrates, because 50% winrate does not mean a balanced gameplay. It can be coinflip-level 0.5 as a result of "good" balaninc, but then it does not feel balanced.

Maybe i write complete shit, but I want League to change, because I barely like this game at the moment. I would also enjoy a YouTube-Series on how the Balance-team decides their changes. Maybe with some insight, players get less toxic about their work.

Please share your ideas on reasons for the toxicity. Do you experienced a rise of toxicity? What relevant factors in balancing should exist?

35 Comments

ProphetOfDraven9 votes

So almost every role got some problems in the current state of the game: Caused by a domination of assasins (or better, champion who kill you in one combo in a short amount of time < 3sec)

Tanks: Assasins have high burst, but rather low dps over a long time, so a tank is either not tanky enought to survive the burst, or he is OP cause there is no consitant damage to pressure him. So you are either super OP when ahead or no champion when behind.

Fighters: Tend to be rather good, because some of them got actual burst potential, but their playstile is not the one of a fighter. At least those who are played (Lee Sin, Irelia, Renekton, ...) others like poppy are not seen these days.

Mages: Are good if they have burst like LeBlanc, Katarina, Syndra and so on. Controlmages with continues damage aren´t in a good position.

Marksman: Appart from MissFortune, Aphelios and Senna they are rather bad right now. So why are these 3 good?! Ahhhh - they have burst and oneshot potential.

Supporter: The champs are generall usefull, but it makes no fun, playing with someone on a lane who is mostly irrelevant because he is dead (yes, i play greyscreensimulator atm)

Well you obviously have blatant adc favoritism, and it makes sense since you play that role. But understand this, ADC's are gigabroken, which forces other classes to be gigabroken in return to be able to keep adc's in line. What this game needs to go back to a functioning state is a complete rehaul of every single crit / on hit adc. Then afterwards we can lower the damages of the classes that are intended to counter them. Currently if an ADC doesnt get dived and instantly blown up they can mow through an entire team in seconds. Ideally ADC's need to become a caster like class that also has decent damage autos. IMO crit and / or AS should just be completely removed. In turn buff their AD ratios on abilities and slightly lower their cooldowns, in addition to replacement AD CDR items and more AD survivability options ( think stuff like zephyr ).

If ADC's don't put out insane DPS and instead just become a mid range AD caster class then there is no longer a necessity for assassins and burst mages to be so far out of line. Also this allows tanks to do their job of tanking damage.

Jaspers5 votes

Many have mentioned this before but what if crit was changed to auto damage modifier stat instead. Would this help control their damage? Make it consistent and predictable?

At the moment crit is a % chance to do double the damage. So let's say you have 20% crit chance and 100 damage on autos, in 5 autos you should do, 100, 100, 100, 200, 100, so 600 damage. Changing to autos damage modifier of 20% means your autos do 120 instead of 100. So in 5 autos you do, 120 x 5 so 600.

But here's how you balance it, auto damage modifier is what is changed, not ADCs. With onhit ADCs, you can manage the damage but modifying their items, little less power or attack speed etc. But with Crit you can't, they buy 20% crit, it's 20% crit. So, let's say ALL crits ADCs start getting out of hand, instead of the item giving 20% auto modifier, they can lower it to 15% (as an example) meaning they overall deal less damage when autoing.

This also will help with things like Trynd getting lucky crits early and just annihilating an opponent in lane level 1 (all he'd have after is 35% auto modifier, not 3 lucky 200 damage crits. :P) or Yasuo and his double bonus passive.

Just an idea, might need more thinking about (like how certain items interact with it).

Speeedy1 votes

this needs to be done because i've lost fights with 75% crit vs 50% crit because of rng. I hate when you outplay someone than lose to you not critting and them critting 3 times in a row.

ProphetOfDraven2 votes

I mean at that point why not just remove crit and just increase / give AD to the items that have it. Instead of tryndamere getting crit he can get just raw AD from his fury instead.

Jaspers3 votes

An auto attack modifier works on autos only, raw AD works on abilties. We aren't trying to make their abilities do more damage, just their autos but at least if you see they have 20% auto modifier, you know it'll do a consistant amount more and they scale based on that, instead of just being lucking a few crits and winning the fight.

ProphetOfDraven3 votes

The problem with adc's though is their sustained damage and I'd rather them be more focused on abilities anyway.

raleprice112 votes

but as someone already said, then you just have mages 2.0. The marksman playerbase enjoys the mechanics of kiting and autoing, not casting and waiting on CDs. Furthermore, before all the massive damage buffs around the end of tank meta, marksmen actually had a role: tank busting and turret taking. when mages were buffed to use their AP on turrets, marksmen kinda lost their home, particularly so because tanks were also taken out of the meta.

ProphetOfDraven2 votes

Tanks are out of the meta because of how insane ADC's are. Yes you are right, the problem began when AP started to do damage to turrets. Marksmen lost there only real niche, that right there was when they should have been reworked. Instead they just got gigabuffed and then everything else got gigabuffed in return.

Speeedy5 votes

if adc become adc/casters than completely negates the point of them as auto attack based. They are just mages version 2.0 which few adc players want. I like auto kite auto kite. If i wanted to be more of a caster I would play mid.

ProphetOfDraven4 votes

So you would rather be oneshot off cooldown and keep this unhealthy gameplay pattern? Also it's not like your autoattacks would be 70 damage mage auto attacks, they would be more akin to bruisers auto attacks which still do high damage but they just have to weave them between spells and abilities and lack AS.

Speeedy2 votes

No one likes being one shot but riot wanted game time shorter so what they did was increase damage to make it that way. Did the map size change? no its the same size. Did HP go up for champs? no its about the same. Did resistances go up for champs? No its about the same. Your talking about every role doing massive amounts of damage compared to 5 years ago. Its not just a simple black and white answer.

ProphetOfDraven4 votes

Yes every role needs to do more damage because ADC's do insane damage. If ADC's weren't lawn mowers that cut through entire teams then assassins wouldnt need to be cannon balls that destroy adcs.

Speeedy3 votes

a role that builds glass cannon is supposed to do insane damage. Riot bumped up every other role while nerfing adc damage to bring them in line with everyone else but still left them as glass cannon. You can nerf all other roles than adc damage and just keep assassins with the potential to 1 shot if they are ahead. If assassins are behind they shouldn't be able to 1 shot an adc. The problem is this wont happen since that was balance in early seasons.

Saezio2 votes

Well turrets are also way worse than 5 years ago. We were able to turtle, waveclear and play safe back then to scale. Enemies had to THINK to dive a tower.

P.S. BRING BACK THE LAZERS

chipndip11 votes

{quoted}

Well turrets are also way worse than 5 years ago. We were able to turtle, waveclear and play safe back then to scale. Enemies had to THINK to dive a tower.

P.S. BRING BACK THE LAZERS

https://youtu.be/SQWNunKcfqY?t=89

This is why they removed the lasers.

Glaukunur2 votes

I see your problem in the comments, some adcs deal indeed too much damage. Imagine a full item caitlyn doing a headshot, she can oneshot people by an insane range.

BUT i remeber very well that tanks with armor are a good counter to this burst, and even fighters like darius or poppy were really good to counter adcs in a teamfight, as they could pressure the enemy adcs really well. So maybe with more roles in the game, you can decide a fight with good teamplay -- a fight lasting longer than a few seconds, a really interesing fight, not a oneshot.

But there are only assasins (and assasins-like adcs) oneshots in current meta.

So indeed you problem is real, but i think the way of solving it, is not healthy for the game.

aTinyKittenYAY4 votes

My personal theory on why more players are being toxic (and I could be wrong, just a theory) is that they have figured out the automatic reporting system.

I think it's pretty common knowledge these days what will get you chat restricted and what will get you banned.

Saying things like N word, homophobic slur, kys, etc. will get you banned so it's rare to see these types of insults anymore (at least for me).

Curse words in general like bitch will get you chat restricted.

Otherwise being toxic in a way that doesn't involve common phrases like "you are trash" or "uninstall" will yield no punishment. (Even those phrases may not in all cases).

So in essence the toxic community has evolved around the automated system and avoids cursing at you while still being extremely toxic.

I think that the automatic system is fundamentally broken.

For example we had a player harass our jg the entire game without cursing. Saying they are the worst jg in NA. Wood division, etc. We reported and nothing happened.

Another game I'll admit I said bitch but not directed at anyone in particular. Something along the context of "let's fight it out, ending quick is a bitch move" - this was in ARAM. I got chat restricted.. which I would be fine with if those who are toxic but don't curse were equally chat restricted.

Glaukunur1 votes

Maybe this is an increasing factor, but I don´t know if so many people are having fun flaming others. If flaming really increased (not the ones causing successfull reports), there must be other sources of frustration.

But netherless, you are right, the automatic reporting system must be updated.

Saezio1 votes

You didn't get chat restricted for saying bitch. Profanity is not punishable. You obviously said something else. Do you still have chat logs? I use curse words every game. And I have never been punished once.

Also, if that person was annoying your JG, they should have muted. It's simple

XJ999999999999991 votes

{quoted}

My personal theory on why more players are being toxic (and I could be wrong, just a theory) is that they have figured out the automatic reporting system.

I think it's pretty common knowledge these days what will get you chat restricted and what will get you banned.

Saying things like N word, homophobic slur, kys, etc. will get you banned so it's rare to see these types of insults anymore (at least for me).

Curse words in general like bitch will get you chat restricted.

Otherwise being toxic in a way that doesn't involve common phrases like "you are trash" or "uninstall" will yield no punishment. (Even those phrases may not in all cases).

So in essence the toxic community has evolved around the automated system and avoids cursing at you while still being extremely toxic.

I think that the automatic system is fundamentally broken.

For example we had a player harass our jg the entire game without cursing. Saying they are the worst jg in NA. Wood division, etc. We reported and nothing happened.

Another game I'll admit I said bitch but not directed at anyone in particular. Something along the context of "let's fight it out, ending quick is a bitch move" - this was in ARAM. I got chat restricted.. which I would be fine with if those who are toxic but don't curse were equally chat restricted.

is it a coincidence that when tyler1 got popular from toxicity, toxicity exploded? nope

Ayzev1 votes

How did he make toxicity explode? The game has almost always been notorious for toxicity

Jng Account1 votes

Or maybe its the other way around you nudes leaking monster. Toxic ppl will want to watch toxic streamers, not the other way around.

FSRER4 votes

This is actualy a good and in depth thread. SEE RIOT, GAMEPLAY+ MATERIAL STILL EXSISTS And honestly, as a Toplane main, I have to agree on all your points and honestly, If a Rioter came up and adressed these problems like you did, it would restore some of my trust towards this company but you see....we care more about this game than they fucking do

Glaukunur1 votes

Thank you very much...

Honestly i never know, if im just a crying adc, cause the meme exists and for some points it is true. Very glad to hear, that finally there is a point, where it´s not just me but a problem in the game :-)

GilxeN2 votes

Absolutely agree with all OP's statement.

I Smell Pizza2 votes

I never afked from a live game before, but this meta/ season I find myself doing that. I feel like they deleted my play style and once I get behind im so useless. I only play more games if I win now. One loss tilts me off the planet bc its so unfun to be behind right now

frackphoneverifi2 votes

there does seem to be a correlation with how when the game gets less fun the toxicity rises.

hard one sided stomps with most games being nearly decided in 10 min before or just as lane phase ends... it is hardly rewarding or fun for either side.

sometimes it feels like i spend more time getting in a game then having actually having any meaningful gameplay in game.

By The Elements2 votes

So true

  • Adc: Don´t even bother -- you are useless.

  • Support: Don´t even bother -- your adc is useless

Inkling Commando1 votes

every meta causes toxicity. if it isn't adc's with too much damage it's mages that go top side throwing off tanks and bruisers.

myamia1 votes

it only does that when people are bad at the game.

Waaaarrrrgggghhh1 votes

its just not fair or fun when you fall behind.. turret plates, first blood tower, being denied farm, getting dived, feels like theres nothing you can do about it. Hence the current ultra high damage snowbally meta to basically shut out the other player from even playing the game, and that causes toxicity. Your opponent isnt just getting ahead, they are putting you behind, so much that you can't come back, or if you can it will be so difficult and take so long you might as well ff and go next.

Glaukunur1 votes

I think, this is maybe seen to onesided:

On the one hand, the turret platngs reward you with more gold, but on the other side, turrets are really more tanky as a result of those.

Consider less damage in game by champions. Then turrets are more relevant, cause tower dives can´t be made this fast. As a result, turrets get destroyed much later. Only if you are playing really good as team.

In this scenario it would be a very rewarding factor for a well coorinated team and in other cases it enables comebacks for a behind-falling team. So i don´t think turret plates are bad overall. Probaly the damage-overload makes them feel unbalanced.

Turn On1 votes

Games not rewarding. MM'ing is absolute trash and mmr is broken. People don't enjoy being forced into 50% win rate. Forced to play with 1-4 feeders, afk'rs, keyboard warriors in every game. Why can't they be all put into lower ranks instead of with people that try their hardest. People are angry that play this game and they have a right to be. The barrier between below gold and above gold is ridiculous. Coin toss to who gets the ape instead of rewarding the carries and try hards. The loser get's the power. Not the winner. That would infuriate anyone who tries their hardest to win at something.

Warmas1 votes

Dude you talk about how oneshotting, and low time-to-kill is the problem then say "toplane is ok, bruisers are good". The two statements contradict each other, bruisers are the dedicated class of having Damage over time and Damage mitigation over time. They are the role that requires the most for the fights to be longer, Conquerer is the greatest example, It is the waystone that needs most time in combat to be worth it and it is the dedicated bruiser keystone. Tanks are garbage too as the damage is so high even they get oneshotted.

Also an ADC main can't complain about getting CC-ed and dying along that time that's how there class works, you shouldn't get CC-ed having the extra range to position and sadly hyper mobility lately, but otherwise right that supports/mages got unreasonable CC time lately (probably to equal out assassin dmg). Also ADCs are very much not weak, they are getting picked on top/mid and bot in competitive for a reason.

All in all though you make a point, my guess is that the meta is so toxic because as with the low time to kill more deaths will occur, while especially from a toplane perspective you have to make several trades to lower hp, wait for enemy jungler to leave your side of the map while your ADC died 3 times because they walked into a hook at which point they don't even care anymore.

Glaukunur1 votes

I didn´t said, bruisers are good without an explenation. I added, that some of them, like darius and renekton (classified as fighters and NOT at assasins) are good, because they can act like an assasin (with less mobility and a bit more tankyness). It´s not unusual for a darius killing an enemy with just a W Q R in lategame, no additional basic attack. Sometimes, it is just W R. So this is high burst, same for renekton.

Next, when you look up the healing values of conquerer, they are way lower now, than before the assasin meta (way more than just the factor of conquerer nerf) in my experience. I think conquerer is used, because it fits the playstile during lanephase much better, becaues as meele champion it lasts longer and you get closer on lane while CSing.

That tanks are most of the time garbage is a point I already made clear, except for some hyper tanks like a fed orn, who is amlost unkillable -- even as adc, who should be the counter to this class. But IF a tank is so tanky that he doesn´t get killed by assasins, adcs won´t either for sure.

Why I complain as adc about getting killed in one cc rotation is a huge number of earlygames, where you are killed during the time of one hook, without a gank. Maybe a hook should make lane really difficult, but it seems way too strong -- way too much coinflip. There isn´t even a jungler needed. Often you get killed in below one second, sometimes without seeing the enemy before. So there isn´t really counterplay. Also a 2/8 Zed, who isn´t the strongest champ atm, with a bad farm, can kill an adc who is in his team.

Also adcs are not picked for their consistent damage in lategame but for being oppresive with their range in earlygame + competitive gameplay is not soloQ. And I don´t care if it´s ok in competitve, when my role sucks up to low diamond at least!

Btw. Most adcs do care, but their option are not existant once they are hitten a single time.

Do you know what i experience in game?

Enemy: got a hook champion My support: stays back to not get hooked Me: either get´s no CS or is very likely to die, cause my support get´s in high danger when pressuring

15 minutes later

Me: gets flamed by team, cause no items, because no CS

Playing adc is shit atm, if you don´t play the 3 mainstream adcs (which are sometimes banned)

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