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To Taliyah Mains: What Do You Want to See?

FelixFurry·2/1/2019, 4:14:29 AM·13 votes·10,130 views

####Hello all!

I am a [partial] Taliyah main (174,995 as of 1/31). I've been playing her since her release and over the course of almost 3 years, she has seen a lot of significant change. In this post, I'll try to explain what has happened to her so far, what could be next, and ask what the community wants to see out of the Stoneweaver! (All links to the information stated are at the bottom of the post!)

####What Has Happened?

Over the course of Season 8, Taliyah has had a total of 10 active changes from patch 8.1 to patch 8.24b. These range from minor CD changes to drastic gameplay changes. Whether or not they were overall better for the game is not my place to decide, but we can say they have not quite hit the mark as the overhaul in how the Q functions has been problematic to say the least. But that's all okay, games change and players adapt.

In patch 8.11, Taliyah had a major change to her Q in which the AoE, bonus speed on Worked Ground, the reduced damage to minions/monsters, and some of the mana cost were removed. This, combined with base ms and Rock Surfing changes pushed her from a mid lane roaming mage to a strong jungle roaming mage. While the possibility of a champion filling multiple roles is satisfying, we can say that her mid lane power during that time was not as such. With the removal of her AoE and the subsequent nerfs after 8.11, she had less power in mid lane and decent power in the jungle.

To quote the patch notes:

Taliyah has a lot of strengths that are great in pro play, and just okay elsewhere. A lot of that comes from Q's waveclear, so the bulk of our mechanical changes focus on that ability (with tuning elsewhere). Taliyah will have to work harder to shove a wave and roam so that her opposing laner has more room to punish those roams. We're also decreasing the terrain control she brings from her ultimate, as it's bringing too much utility beyond just its roam strength

This is all true. Taliyah had a lot of power mid lane in pro play because of her strength of lane control, and the intent was clear. Although this plan came with flaws. Taliyah's purpose was to roam, and punishing her that hard made it impossible for her to roam at all, so she went to the only role where her roams couldn't be punished, jungle, which pro play abused. (Also her Q did massive damage to monster camps making her clears insane.)

In patch 8.23, her viability in jungle dropped. Another Q change stopped the damage from being reduced on minions and monsters, hurting her camp clear. Currently, she is in a limbo state. Not awful but not decent either. Mains can find success on her but most of her identity has been misplaced or stripped away from her.

####What Is Next?

Taliyah's identity is clear. She is the Stoneweaver, a young mage unsure yet steadfast in her abilities. Her spells show that she hasn't quite gotten the handle with her magic, but she can perform tremendous acts with it. Make that her identity.

Taliyah should have the strength of map manipulation and controlling fights. Her E and R should be the primary reason you play her, not her Q. That said, her Q should have some identity as well, so here is what I propose.

Passive (and possible Base MS): Reduce to compensate for Q Q: Make Worked Ground something again. There is no reason to have it as a mechanic other than a limiting factor so she cannot spam 5-shot Q's. Give back the bonus MS so she works around what she has, or change it to be more impact. ~~ W:~~ Gucci E: Make it her main focus point, reward more for landing successful WE combos and push that to be her identity, the control mage. R: Have this be another main focus point, her map control. With an enemy Taliyah, you should be afraid to step out of line, much like how you are scared to be low with an enemy Karthus.

I do not believe Taliyah has reached Ryze/Kalista/Azir state yet in which too much has been put onto them, I just think that she is a little lost, but the sparrow will find her way. This is an active process to every champion to make them better and more balanced versions of themselves! So, biggest question of all...

####What Do You Think? What Are Your Changes?

No hate in the comments! This should be constructive!

* Links to Information Used: Wiki Change List 8.11 Notes*

28 Comments

Aeq992/1/2019, 11:03:35 AM7 votes

646,454 Taliyah main here.

While she can find success in the mid lane, there are far more champions who can do her job better.

As for abilities: Passive: I agree, they should reduce the movement speed bonus she gets so they can buff something else. Q: I wish we could get the AoE back but I know thats never gonna happen. Riot doesnt want her back in the state where she just pushes and roams w/o even interacting with her opponent. Movement speed back on Worked Ground is a good change and I dont understand why it had to be removed. Also, couldn't they just make her Q deal less damage to monsters ONLY instead of minions and monsters? She wasnt pushing waves as fast as with the AoE and I felt it was fine, now she cant clear a single melee minion. W: Maybe revert the cd nerfs? 12 sec at rank 1 isnt anything overpowered imo. E: Idk I feel like her E is fine? Not sure what they could add here. R: What did u have in mind for R? I think Its fine, maybe bring back the vision it gave but to be honest It doesn't feel that important.

jurrrr2/1/2019, 5:53:34 PM6 votes

Q: Add aoe damage to volley and movement speed to warped ground

W: Add a selfcast that allows Taliyah to encase herself in stone for a short duration and absorb damage.

E: Fine

R: Wall should do massive damge if it hits enemy. Also take out interaction where Yasuo's wind wall cancels her wall.

Morning Raven2/1/2019, 1:33:22 PM4 votes

I agree on converting the ms back to the worked ground as when I do play her in mid, I still feel like I should be getting it.

Though really, I just want the original W casting back. If I'm allowed to have a regular knock up in team fights again so I don't mess up teammates' skill shots, I'd be real happy.

I PT I2/1/2019, 8:41:33 PM4 votes

I'd wish they give her MS on worked ground because all it does now is shoot one rock for 1 mana, and feels really odd to just have worked ground for that only.

AoE on Q is much desired to be back by every Taliyah main, but we know that will probably never return. But I understand why it won't.

Also I agree with bringing back 12 sec W, old w cast, and maybe the vision on ult. I don't really know why they removed those.

ninjaroxas2/1/2019, 12:33:40 PM4 votes

I still want the old W cast back

Wild Geese2/1/2019, 6:45:23 PM3 votes

Honestly they should revert the mini-patch. Or at least just the Q/worked ground mechanics she used to have should come back. The new ones suck and only were good for the jungle (which riot didn't want so whatever).

Honeydew Zekling2/1/2019, 5:41:36 PM3 votes

I started getting into Taliyah last season and loved her. Did not like her move to the jungle. Currently she feels ok but lacks oomph.

I do agree with you it would be great to see her kit revolve more around getting the E/W combo. Considering it's cooldown and damage, it really doesn't feel all to impactful unless it's against squishies.

This could allow her Q to be more of a CS/poke tool rather than the main source of all her damage

koshkyra2/1/2019, 11:12:05 PM3 votes

I want her to be reverted to her previous state and then tweaked to make her less broken in proplay so she can actually exist in soloQ.

dome0252/1/2019, 8:03:33 PM2 votes

Stats: Reduce movement speed

Abilities:

Removed Passive: Gains additional ms near terrain while out of combat. New Passive: Taliyah can collapse terrain and use the bolders as a projectile to deal dmg and cc.

Q: Add aoe damage back. And ms on worked ground.

Adjust the damage of all abilities with the new passive in mind. And perhaps nerf her ult cd or give it some restriction to use.

Goal is to give her waveclear potential back but reduce her mobility to nerf roaming potential.

The last time I played Taliyah she felt terrible to play as without the waveclear. I didn´t play her often yet I liked her and would have played her from time to time but now she is another champ which I don´t want to touch cause Riot ruined her for me (the other champ is Zac).

Alvaer2/1/2019, 8:32:10 PM2 votes

Taliyah onetrick here :P,

so, everybody said so so im gonna say it to just because i can :D and i want it too, aoe and ms back on q i feel like she isnt that much of a control mage anymore, idk shes just in a really weird spot.

Her purpose is to push and roam thats what the whole champ design is about and riot tried to turn her into something she isn´t which obviously doesnt work, so just give her her aoe/ms back and maybe reduce her push power a bit but not completely remove it, or rework her... i actually dont give a **** just do something jesus xD (sry for the language but im sad and frustrated >.<)

IP Masquerena2/1/2019, 4:40:11 PM2 votes

I mained Taliyah for a while both before and after she became a jungler and I found her game play in the jungle much more interactive and fun than her pre Q nerf mid, so if possible, I'd like her to become better again in the jungle, not just in mid.

Sexy Jack Rabbit2/1/2019, 1:25:38 PM2 votes

Personally I think she's in a fine state right now, if not for a low playrate, but that's nothing unusual. Riot has reached a comfortable point with her kit where her Q and E both feel impactful and relevant.

If I were to buff her I'd add an additional second to her E, and increase the max rock cap to 5.

So basically; E duration: 4 seconds > 5 seconds damage reduction per rock: 0 > 15 > 30 > 45% > 0 > 9 > 18 > 27 > 36 > 45%

Other than that I don't think there's much that needs to be done to her that wouldn't off set her balance or make her unfun to play.

Hong Kong Annie2/2/2019, 1:50:28 AM1 votes

I would like to see her original E and W combo back, and for her to be rebalanced for mid lane. Maybe she could still jungle but it shouldn't be her primary role.

Tacosrock2/6/2019, 1:01:47 AM1 votes

Taliyah main here: Changelist: nothing. She's perfectly fine right now and will never be in a balanced spot any other way. I'd rather her stay out of the spotlight for a while and if that means keeping her the way she is then so be it. Although slightly lower mana costs would be nice

Ifneth2/10/2019, 3:02:59 AM1 votes

500k+ Taliyah Main here. Taliyah has a niche play style that takes time to learn but is rewarding once mastered. Buffs that would make her viable without mastery would make her overpowered for main, professional, and highly skilled players. Nevertheless, we should try to bring her into the meta.

Stats - Untouched. She doesn’t need direct power.

Passive - Untouched. Feels amazing.

Q - Damage fall-off limited to champions. Overall damage reduced against monsters.

W - Mana cost growth reduced.

E - Mana cost growth reduced.

R - Gains one second of duration per rank.

Taliyah would gain wave and jungle clear speed, each cleanly separated from the other by the percent damage reduction to monsters. Lower mana costs on her combo would let her cast more spells without having to recall. Longer wall duration at higher ranks would remove the feels-bad moments of landing long or cross-map walls only for them to crumble as she hops off.

boneboy992/1/2019, 12:30:38 PM1 votes

i do agree taliyah is quite weak after her clear nerfs and the top meta picks tending to counter her. the only major change id suggest is give her some of her clear speed back maybe to 75% instead of 100% damage on monsters after the first rock like it used to be, she was definitely op for 3+ months in her former state there's no denying that. Other than that i like where taliyah is rn in the jungle role she is a much more interesting champion then her previous unmatched shove and roam she had in the midlane. also i think itd be sick if youre q kept running while you zhonyas lol.

magicsdefender2/1/2019, 12:14:04 PM1 votes

Exten r duration so it allows for more impactful teamfighting and let it not be just a glorified tp.

artail310/31/2019, 3:41:28 PM1 votes

I did not realize how hard Taliyah had been nerfed. I recently got her champ shard so bought her and thought I'd give her a try. After 5+ games, I realized how weak she was compared to other junglers. Instead of being the jungler that could make an impact on the state of the game, I became a liability to the team, someone everyone had to fight to protect, and everyone else was forced to carry. I imagine she was nerfed to the ground like Sejuani recently was, in order to remove her from pro play. I truly wish Riot would give her some power back, whether through her Q, W, or E. Her play-style seems incredibly fun, and it would be great if she could become a decent pick once again. I don't want my team to sigh and dodge anytime I choose Taliyah.

Also I know 5 games are not much, but they are enough to judge the power level of a jungler. I'm comparing her to other junglers I've tried out. For instance, Evelyn, Kayn, Zack; they all have much more rewarding power levels.