For those who don't know, Meddler mentioned looking into changes to Kindred focused on giving them a reason to build crit.
My question is to why? I've been playing them a lot lately and I've enjoyed that they focus on attack speed over crit or lethality. Why homogenize their build path with other marksmen?
Meep Man7 votesNext PBE changes:
"Your bonus damage from Marks can now crit"
Tormentula6 votesCause kindred is a scaling champion with marks, and crit builds are for scaling marksmen. They'd rather see kindred be a late game hyper carry with marks. Additionally black cleaver got changed so they lost one of their more common items for dealing damage.
D4 Gu1t4r3 votesGuinsoo's Rageblade paired with marks, BotRK, and Bloodrazor is a lot of bonus damage without crit.
Tormentula11 votesGuinsoo's... not even gunna comment
They don't even build BOTRK right now either, that pops in and out of the meta on them every once in awhile.
Most kindreds, especially ones with 125+ games tend to go: 
They neither favor lifesteal or crit, or even attack speed, but favor just shredding a percentage of your health while kiting, chasing, and shredding armor for base damage. This build makes them more of an attack speed bruiser than a late game scaling marksmen. This build benefits them neither early game, mid game, and falls off late game if they lack marks and this is their best build. Transitioning them to a crit build would make attack speed %health more viable along with doing critical damage rather than their raw base damage (which isn't great).
Plus, BOTRK is getting changed and BC got nerfed, two items gone out of their "frequent" builds, so basically this patch they lost an armor shred, CDR, and movement speed bonus item, and next patch a %hp attack speed item will lose its %hp damage and gives less attack speed. Additionally crit builds would be more balancable since you can build a randuin's instead of them just rushing cleaver and killing you regardless.
logic3012 votesUsually BOTRK instead of malice, that's what I build (I know I'm low elo), but so do the one tricks on yt like redkind
Spoofghoul2 votesHonestly don't understand why kindred players never build 
since it works with wolf
it's pretty damn strong on them
EndlessSorcerer1 votesThey don't need the mana and can't sacrifice the early-game strength.
Spoofghoul1 votes
is a fairly cheap item and provides decent AD when bought i don't think it will hurt that much, it will certainly be stronger vs champs then an early runaans
Naomi CoffeeGoat1 votesBecause Kindred's AD scalings are completely piss poor. Their entire playstyle revolves around using the damage from your marks. Your Q late game isn't even a damage ability anymore, just another skill used to kite and dodge.
Tormentula2 votesBecause 
isn't worth spending gold on when you have access the blue buff and other instant damage items.
The reason why laners need it is because they need to spam abilities inorder to properly trade, wave clear, or poke their lane out. The finished items are actually barely worth it in itself, the mana refund is just too good for these champions and the fully stacked bonus is just so they don't fall off or have a worthless item in the late game while managing their mana.
would never need it cause the tear would be pointless thanks to blue buff, and they're still an auto attack reliant champion late game and still never run out of mana.
Unlike 
which as somebody who tried out "redzreal" as a joke, was impossible to ever have mana as in all stages of the game cause spamming abilities defines the champion.
Its like asking "why doesn't elise, nidalee, or graves build mana items in the jungle even tho they spam abilities on camps", they don't need it and there are better rush options.
AirKingNeo3 votesSimply because Kindred can't stack it effectively and the tear is hard to buy in jungle role.
Puttyblo2 votesGuinsoo's... not even gunna comment
They don't even build BOTRK right now either, that pops in and out of the meta on them every once in awhile.
Most kindreds, especially ones with 125+ games tend to go:
They neither favor lifesteal or crit, or even attack speed, but favor just shredding a percentage of your health while kiting, chasing, and shredding armor for base damage. This build makes them more of an attack speed bruiser than a late game scaling marksmen. This build benefits them neither early game, mid game, and falls off late game if they lack marks and this is their best build. Transitioning them to a crit build would make attack speed %health more viable along with doing critical damage rather than their raw base damage (which isn't great).
Plus, BOTRK is getting changed and BC got nerfed, two items gone out of their "frequent" builds, so basically this patch they lost an armor shred, CDR, and movement speed bonus item, and next patch a %hp attack speed item will lose its %hp damage and gives less attack speed. Additionally crit builds would be more balancable since you can build a randuin's instead of them just rushing cleaver and killing you regardless.
https://puu.sh/uhHXN/f341c7ca3a.jpg
https://puu.sh/uhIgO/3a23f8ca61.png
?
Thank you for telling me the top 20 Kindred player what they do and don't build x3.
IronWraith2 votesCause kindred is a scaling champion with marks, and crit builds are for scaling marksmen. They'd rather see kindred be a late game hyper carry with marks. Additionally black cleaver got changed so they lost one of their more common items for dealing damage.
I wouldn't say lost. Actually, I think the black cleaver was a slight buff to them since they don't care about the AD. Getting a little more health is just fine. Black cleaver would only be lost to them if the armor shred was gone. Although, if you built LDR and BC, then yeah, that's a nerf, but I see most Kindred players just build black cleaver instead of building both BC and LDR. I'm really curious on what riot will do exactly to make crit chance an appealing stat to them.
DarkRitual5 votesKindred's kot is balanced around their mark stacking. You don't always get to stack them well. Like, good luck stacking against Ivern instasmiting a camp. They need a fallback buildpath to where they aren't just an R-bot, that doesn't feel like complete trash to have to build.
D4 Gu1t4r2 votesI see your point, but if the enemy is Ivern, just mark him and kill him. Getting stacks from champs isn't bad if sticking with your team mid-game, only need assists.
Spoofghoul1 votesthats like saying lets change up camille so she don't get cockblocked by poppy
there are many horrible matchups in this game that we shouldn't change or buff or nerf champions for
some kit's just counter others
and that is why the ban system exists, well at least primarily,
Ulquiorra9954 votesThis would be Vel'Koz all over again. Sure, he is strong even post rework - but now he uses the same cookie-cutter build as other mages. Before when I wanted something different to play in mid I went to Vel'Koz. After the rework not so much. Goddammit Riot, having a different build path is not a bad thing. It makes champions different and more fun.
The Lost Marbles1 votesThis would be Vel'Koz all over again. Sure, he is strong even post rework - but now he uses the same cookie-cutter build as other mages. Before when I wanted something different to play in mid I went to Vel'Koz. After the rework not so much. Goddammit Riot, having a different build path is not a bad thing. It makes champions different and more fun.
In regards to "different build path" do you mean the Magic Pen build? The same build that Brand/Zyra/Rumble/any mage with high bases and meh scalings uses?
Incidentally, I'm pretty sure Vel's "old" build would still do comparable damage after his mini-rework, since he doesn't need much AP to make his passive do as much damage as it did before.
Ralanr3 votesCause most attack speed items have crit?
OurLestrade3 votesShe's an AD carry and they're supposed to build crit, emphasis on supposed.
Partholonian1 votesKindred aren't an AD carry, they are a marksman jungler. And junglers aren't supposed to build crit; there are no crit jungle items and crit has too delayed a power curve to be reasonable on a jungler's reduced budget compared to a CSing laner.
Trying to force a jungler into crit is just going to make them trash.
I think Riot should stop trying to kill onhit marksmen (Kindred included) and start making them an alternative to crit marksmen that have distinct strengths and weaknesses.
Tormentula2 votesTrying to force a jungler into crit is just going to make them trash.
Who said?
Back in the old days crit was the norm for graves and even release kindred. Currently jungle 
is one of the strongest scaling crit champions in the game and he's the same thing kindred is, a marksmen in the jungle.
Hell even crit 
was strong at one point.
Chembaron Yamada1 votesKindred were designed to build crit from the start. Their stacking mechanic is supposed to help them out because of the delayed power curve you mentioned. You can read it in their developing text, marksmen are intended to build crit but that stat is pretty expensive. Since jungler have a reduced budget, they gave them the stack mechanic to make up some missing stats in earlier points of the game.
On the other hand Kindred will become an extreme power house in the late game. Because they have the strong crit items on top of all the stacks they were able to generate in that time. Kindred always were intended as a late game jungler.
And it fits their theme pretty well. Giving you the feeling of "you may be able to delay death, but there is a point the time has come for all of us".
SlashStriker3 votes 
Attacks up to 3 targets and applies onhit effects.
May critically strike to secondary targets
Synchronize with for crit damage booster
It Hertz When IP1 votesThe side bolts deal reduced damage though, it's not just 3 AAs flying out. That's why it's been a go-to for on-hit builds.
Xela Syab3 votesKindred does need something, she was designed to jungle and she's seen less jungle than Twitch.
Doctor Fillgood3 votes"Because if you aren't building lethality then you aren't supposed to be part of league of legends in the upcoming patch." -Riot
GrReaper962 votesLets just admit Kindred is a mess right now together with 
and theyre just gonna do random things to her life they did to those 2 until shes old enough to be reworked
D4 Gu1t4r2 votesAre they though? I don't think Kindreds kit is or was ever as fundamentally broken as Azir or Kalista.
GrReaper964 votesInfinitely stacking % current hp damage is pretty fundamentally broken. Kindred has received countless of nerfs because they refuse to balance her passive
Arsenic Sulfur1 votesNo that's fine, especially considering the difficulty going into actually getting stacks. What's fundamentally broken is being completely unable to fuck up their abilities. The only way Kindred can screw up is by not being in range considering that EVERYTHING AUTO-TARGETS! They can outplay you but you can't outplay them.
Auz the Ripper3 votesHer passive almost never was her problem Mostly she's been nerfed for her ability to kill the enemy jungler early and repeatedly, sometimes because of her ult too. The % current health has always taken way longer to become relevent than these games have ever lasted in the last two or three years
GayFluffyUnicorn1 votesAnd there lies the problem. When kindred is so strong even early on she collects like 10 marks before 20 mins and reached lategame hypercarry oneshot status at the start of midgame. Yes her passive IS the problem. Riot instead tried to nerf the rest of the kit so they can not just walk to the enemy jungle, kill the jungler over and over and collect marks.
Photos of Ghosts2 votesI think that Crit is the only damage itemisation they have managed to make be consistently lategame oriented. So, by making her crit-based, they make sure her power curve corresponds to what her passive suggests.
Papa Andrei2 votesWith other marksmen???
Whatchu say?
MunchCrunchLunch2 votesits really sad that they can't make on hit a viable option for ranged champions (as it is the only options for some melees and it doesn't scale all that well becasue rageblade sucks)
Sire Hippington2 votesBecause she synergieses well with hurricane, and riot decided that any adc needs to be crit based bacj in the class update, which is why all items that would help them to do otherwise have been changed into crit. Befor the class update, hurricane supported on-hit heavy builts with AS, aswell as Lifesteal focused builts for draintanking. Now it's a crit item. ER was a very underated caster item, beeing the cheapest of the 80ad items, giving cdr, lifesteal **and manasustain.**Now it gives crit, and even worse, it needs even more crit to actually give cdr and mana. Atleast caster builds have gotten some options with flatpen and now lethality, but they lack proper mana options, cause manamune simply sucks for everyone that isn't ez or maybe urgot.
SirLapse1 votesThey technically already do favor crit via Runaan's but prioritize applying on-hit effects more. Bloodrazor, BoTRK, Black Cleaver, Runaan's, Frozen Mallet and otherwise defensive building to handle compositions.
If their intention is to make Kindred want Crit DAMAGE items, it's very flawed since it's not working well for current ADCs. However, Kindred would definitely be able to execute it better than they are right now due to not having to lane and crit being very tied to attack speed/auto attacks. I think Meddler is just alluding to a potential buff where Kindred's Q or W can crit or has extra impact based on crit, but who knows for sure?
D4 Gu1t4r1 votesRunaan's is usually the only crit item I build. Even played them bot lane once and bought Guinsoo's to get extra damage from marks
It Hertz When IP1 votesHow the hell did you make Kindred bot work? I've tried twice so far, always get my ass handed to me six ways from Sunday.
D4 Gu1t4r1 votesI was versing a Mordekaiser Taric lane, was a very odd matchup. Probably would have been much worse for me if it was a marksman matchup.
It Hertz When IP1 votesOh.
I was hoping you'd found the Answer... guess I'll keep looking.
Sammanman1 votesForever wishing kindred could lane. Usless in lane, useless in twisted treeline, borderline useless in aram. Crit builds arent satisfying, not the direction i was hoping for :/. Forever my favorite jungler though.
Lauchmelder1 votesARAM is a special case. They're either broken with 11 stacks or, when I play them, useless with something like 4 stacks.
Bârd2 votesKindred were an alright laner when they had their heal, but that got scrapped right quick.
Dominick Destine1 votesShe's basically an ADC jungler, that's why.
A Basic Island1 voteshow does kindred get her damage?
