Can we make tanks.... actual tanks?

Stryngpool·Jul 8, 2016·3 votes·624 views

Riot. You guys have developed the best moba out to date. All i ask is that you nerf the ever loving fuck out of volibear. I'm tired of competitve games being ruined by a "tank" who can 3 shot you before he's level 6, WHILE BUILDING TANK ITEMS. League is supposed to be a game where you can express yourself through your champ select. I'm tired of the game being decided in champ select. None of you guys might even see this but, I love League, but sometimes the insane power imbalances make me wanna uninstall it and move on.

13 Comments

67chromeJul 8, 20168 votes

All i ask is that you nerf the ever loving fuck out of volibear. I'm tired of competitve games being ruined by a "tank" who can 3 shot you before he's level 6, WHILE BUILDING TANK ITEMS.

Volibear isn't a tank, he's a fighter.

Tanks are tanky CC. Fighters are tanky DPS.

When it comes to fighters, they pretty much always have the same kill potential as a typical assassin, mage, or marksman. The main difference between these classes is largely what they rely on to survive long enough to kill things, which is some mixture of Defense, Speed, and Range. Juggernauts (like volibear) rely almost exclusively on defense, most other fighters a mix of defense and speed, assassins speed, marksman generally a mix of speed and range, and mages either range or some mix of range and defense.

Awkward considering itemization basically just offers offense and defense. But all things considered: The mobility Zed's kit offers and the range Lux's kit offers aren't just 0 sum flavor bonuses to their kits. Those are both worth as much as the level of tankyness Volibear can amass: and the game treats it as such.

EndlessSorcererJul 8, 20165 votes

Volibear isn't a tank, he's a fighter.

Tanks are tanky CC. Fighters are tanky DPS.

You beat me to it.

JustMonika13Jul 8, 20167 votes

Tank =/= Tanky. Volibear's a juggernaut; juggernauts can both dish out and soak up damage, but are susceptible to kiting. True tanks are more along the line of Shen, Nautilus, and Braum. Juggernauts would be like Darius, Illaoi, and Garen.

That being said, Im not fond of the bear myself, but most of my champions are squishies. Squishies are called squishy for a reason: they can be killed by anything.

PhantomGGJul 8, 20162 votes

You clearly did not play during the following patches

Cinderhulk Meta

JuggerNaut

Pre Season

In all three of these time periods Tanks were legit the most terrifying auto win things

Cinderhulk-Gragas, sejuani, naut and shyvana were unstopablle super tanks of death that provided damage, cc, and tons of spongeing

Juggernaut- A tank such as darius or mord, would take 2000 damage, be at full health, than one shot your adc

Pre Season- Mundo, malphite and Graves that is all.

KGDisastaJul 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

You clearly did not play during the following patches

Cinderhulk Meta

JuggerNaut

Pre Season

In all three of these time periods Tanks were legit the most terrifying auto win things

Cinderhulk-Gragas, sejuani, naut and shyvana were unstopablle super tanks of death that provided damage, cc, and tons of spongeing

Juggernaut- A tank such as darius or mord, would take 2000 damage, be at full health, than one shot your adc

Pre Season- Mundo, malphite and Graves that is all.

unless the enemy team bought any 1 pen item, or had a vayne, or a moderatly competent adc. there was never a "tank" meta, there was a week where cinderhulk DEALT too much damage, and the release of the juggernauts, both times were very very short and not at all metas i have never played a game, not even an aram, and felt "man i am tanky" including over 600 armour rammus vs all ad - i still died in under 3s because armour pen is so fucking absurd and that was season 5 before they added armour pen to everything

FlahertyJul 8, 20161 votes

There's no way volibear is 3 shotting anyone unless he's massively far ahead. Most of his damage is sustained damage and his bite which only does shit loads of damage once he has some HP and skill points in it

DefendedJul 8, 20161 votes

I dont understand these people. ''Volibear isnt a tank! hes a fighter!! ''

Uhm no. if a champion is soaking up major fucking damage for an extended period of time hes a god damn tank.

''Hes a fighter!'' No. Fiora and riven are fighters. They are tankier than assassins but have less burst. Needless to say they arent tanky at all.

Volibear on the other hand will soak up 3+ people at the same time

EndlessSorcererJul 9, 20162 votes

Tanks and fighters are both durable. What differentiates them is how they threaten the enemy team:

Fighters are threats primarily due to their damage
Tanks are threats primarily due to their utility/CC

A champion being durable doesn't necessarily make them a take; it's a common misconception.

Critmaster GarenJul 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I dont understand these people. ''Volibear isnt a tank! hes a fighter!! ''

Uhm no. if a champion is soaking up major fucking damage for an extended period of time hes a god damn tank.

''Hes a fighter!'' No. Fiora and riven are fighters. They are tankier than assassins but have less burst. Needless to say they arent tanky at all.

Volibear on the other hand will soak up 3+ people at the same time

less burst? youre kidding, right? have you ever faced an animation cancelling riven?

id actually go as far and call riven an assassin as much as a fighter.

"fighters" is a pretty large group of champions that can be divided in multiple sub categories. from slow and heavy damage dealing juggernauts over divers like vi, irelia, and jax, to extremely mobile and squishy melee adc (or skirmishers) like yasuo, fiora, and tryndamere and riven.

CerealBoxOfDoomJul 8, 20161 votes

so basically you want tanks to fire off aoe attacks that can destroy the fuck out of buildings and be nearly impossible to stop until you get in position with your antitank item lategame?

oh wait.. isn't that what we already have?

Darth Pixy MisaJul 8, 20161 votes

What if tanks just had double the hp scaling they do now? Imo All tanks should be like killing Baron late game. Baron does not do much damage, but Baron takes time to kill.

67chromeJul 9, 20161 votes

What if tanks just had double the hp scaling they do now?

It would do...dirty things to itemization.

Basically: if a tank has 500 HP, a 500 HP item is amazing: it boosts their defense by 100%. If they have 50,000 HP: it is not. Such an item would boost their defense by 1%. If they have 100 AD and there are 100 AD items in the store: 100% boost in their offense.

Making tanks tanky for free would generally defeat the purpose of defensive itemization. At least through any stat that can be itemized for. If you gave all tanks something like 25% damage reduction 100% of the time for 100% free it would make them tankier and still want to build tanky items. Or if you made all items grant % bonuses base off of a champions base stats rather than just giving a flat value (basically how attack speed works), it would also be possible to push champions in a certain direction.

All that said though: most champions are set up in a way that their ability scalings tell players exactly what they scale well with, and if those are all a champion's kit needs to be pushed down the right itemization path, no need to complicate things.

SpoofghoulJul 9, 20161 votes

no i think that would be bad

because then other damage needs to be adjusted again aswell which it cant because the4n anythign squishier would be fucked really hard

i think what riot can do is work with base armor and magic resist

Give champions classified as tanks high base armor, like 100+ and high base magic resist 65 or 70 or something like that

Then adjust all %pen and %shred items to only affect bonus armor

This will also help vs the whole tank assassin problem as these will then have low base defenses making them more susceptible to penetration if they do build tanky

Not optimal solution but it could patch things up a bit untill an overhaul for tanks comes along, and its an easy fix

And for a possible later fix up certain items really meant especially for tanks could provide % bonus defenses or a flkat amount + a % amount to just make them more effective on tanks. Although not all defence should be like this to provide options for non tanks ofc plenty of champs might want one or two defensive items

For example, what if thornmail would give 80 armor + 20% of base armor for a tank this would be anywhere from 100-105 armor for a squishy maybe 95 armor.