Simple Yasuo balance change to calm everyone down

Hard Pillowz·Aug 20, 2018·24 votes·9,016 views

Very simple. He effectively has two passives, right? His doubled crits and shield? Here's the proposed change:

Shift one of them as a passive he gains upon leveling his W once instead of giving him 2 innates. That way, he'll be more manageable early. Thematically, the shield would make more sense as his W 's passive as they're both 'defensive'.

BONUS, NOT PART OF PROPOSED IDEA IN TITLE: While on the topic of Wind Wall, here's an idea: After destroying X number (increasing with each rank) of projectiles, the wall is destroyed, or if you want to be generous, reduces damage of incoming projectiles by 90% instead of blocking them.

Thoughts?

30 Comments

Warlord RhinarkAug 20, 20189 votes

I'd rather let him keep the two passives and make his W cost 100 Flow.

JunkοAug 20, 201819 votes

Everybody who thinks this change is even close to a good idea has no clue how Yasuo works at all.

Tahminatrix Aug 20, 20185 votes

I think its good because it means he will never get to use it..

DoktorKaiserAug 21, 20181 votes

Why? Because it would actually take skill to manage and use instead of just popping it to block some champions entire kits ?

JunkοAug 21, 20181 votes

You do realize when Yasuo has 100 flow the next attack that hits Yasuo removes all his flow? Yasuo would literally just use it every time it's up then cause if he gets hit he can't use it anyway.

DoktorKaiserAug 21, 20181 votes

Yeah it's kind of the point of this idea, to stop him from just jumping on everyone and popping windwall for super safety because you cant retaliate with most champs. He should use windwall before a fight or at the exact time he gets 100 flow in the middle of a fight. He should use brain a little bit instead of button mashing, it would maybe actually make him a high skill cap champ.

Leto GTAug 20, 20186 votes

Remove the shield.

Pika FoxAug 20, 20185 votes

Or people can stop complaining over nothing and learn how to play.

hhaavviikkAug 20, 20185 votes

it still wouldn't stop yasuo from being obnoxious due to his wind wall, the yasuo can be ranked garbagecan 5 and yet a random windwall in a team fight or in lane can screw me over completely

thesealightsAug 20, 20185 votes

How about adding a bit more depth and complexity to his kit by having Windwall tied to his Flow mechanic? You still gain flow and still have your shield, but your W consumes all current flow and stops flow during its 3.75 second duration. It makes sense to me thematically, thinking of flow as the wind and the Windwall and passive as Yasuo's focused flow.

If Yasuo makes a mistake and finds his passive popped, he can still Windwall but doesn't have flow for its duration, lengthening the window in which Yasuo is vulnerable to an all-in. A good Yasuo can still stop two instances of damage through timing W after popping his passive but gives up generating flow for the duration of his W, allowing for counterplay as forcing a Windwall stops his passive for 3.75 seconds and eats his ability to shield. Overall a nerf, but changes an otherwise boring passive into something requiring a bit more decision making because of its relation to the use of his W.

Overall a nerf that really isn't needed as Yasuo is actually kinda fair, although snowbally if unchecked.

Edit 8/21:

I've been mulling this one over for a bit.

I wanted to build up on the Windwall <> Flow <> Shield interactions to make the passive mechanically deeper, rewarding a Yasuo for skillful use and timing of his abilities and punishing a Yasuo that plays sloppy, while opening up the passive to counterplay that's more interesting than popping his shield before you can actually deal damage. The abilities, resource, and passive would still have the same interactions outlined above but if you Windwall with your shield up, it takes your shield too. The two scenarios in my original post still works, but now adds a third case where if a Yasuo isn't thinking about when they are Windwalling, they're actually making themselves more vulnerable to damage.

This opens up even more counterplay options for opponents, as they could now bait a triggerhappy Yasuo itching to W into using it too early and now no longer having their passive shield for the 3.75 seconds Windwall lasts on top of the time it takes to get 100 Flow. This also gives a clever Yasuo the ability to play mindgames with opponents as now there's a question of whether or not Yasuo will Windwall, making the passive even deeper and more interactive, and also INTERESTING TO WATCH when spectating games.

The interaction between Windwall <> Flow <> Shield should also carry over to his Ult. Currently, his ult gives 100 Flow for a shield. With this proposed interaction, his Ult should also drop the Flow debuff (no flow for the duration of Windwall), meaning that a solid Yasuo can soak a hit with passive, Windwall, ult in to gain 100 Flow for a second shield plus the 50% armor penetration on crit, while dropping the no-flow debuff due to using his ultimate. This rewards skilled play by sequencing abilities correctly to maximize his passive's damage mitigation. This also means that if a bad Yasuo ults in, they just gave up at least one instance of passive mitigation and if they Windwall right after, they give up two.

First Scenario - Passive, Windwall (Flow debuff), Ult (drop Flow debuff), Passive = at least two instances of mitigation (excluding anything Windwall stops) Second Scenario - Ult (gain 100 flow), Windwall (Flow debuff) = no mitigation (excluding anything Windwall stops)

Overall, I do like Yasuo a lot, but I find his Flow <> Shield mechanic as it exists now feeling like it was tacked on as an afterthought so that Yasuo could all-in easier with at least one instance of passive mitigation when he ults, and that's just really boring.

Thoughts and feedback appreciated.

GreatWhiteNorthAug 20, 20182 votes

{quoted}

How about adding a bit more depth and complexity to his kit by having Wind Wall tied to his Flow mechanic? You still gain flow and still have your shield, but your W consumes all current flow and stops flow during its 3.75 second duration. It makes sense to me thematically, thinking of flow as the wind and the Windwall and passive as Yasuo's focused flow.

If Yasuo makes a mistake and finds his passive popped, he can still Windwall but doesn't have flow for its duration, lengthening the window in which Yasuo is vulnerable to an all-in. A good Yasuo can still stop two instances of damage through timing W after popping his passive but gives up generating flow for the duration of his W, allowing for counterplay as forcing a Windwall stops his passive for 3.75 seconds and eats his ability to shield. Overall a nerf, but changes an otherwise boring passive into something requiring a bit more decision making because of its relation to the use of his W.

Overall a nerf that really isn't needed as Yasuo is actually kinda fair, although snowbally if unchecked.

This is perfect. It preserve's Yasuo's usefulness in teamfights while making him actually have to think about when he uses his windwall, like a normal champion. A reasonable alternative to removing him from the game.

Cherry foxAug 21, 20181 votes

We need some Riot Employee here, preferably one who works for the game developing department to write that down. Although Yasuo has become much easier to play agains with the last changes he resieved I would like him to keep his offensive abilies as they are and change the defence mechanisms as the passive and the Wind wall and I think that would be the right way to do it.

ROYALR3IGNAug 20, 20183 votes

What if we put charges on his E and cap it at 2 dashes or something then leveling it up will lower the cd on his dashes. Let him keep his shield and wall

SwiftKitten88Aug 20, 20187 votes

[{quoted}](name=Arctic Husky,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oTrEHdcg,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-08-20T14:34:53.202+0000)

What if we put charges on his E and cap it at 2 dashes or something then leveling it up will lower the cd on his dashes. Let him keep his shield and wall

or just give his dash a 2 second cooldown

GodlyBaneAug 20, 20183 votes

no need to nerf yasuo, hes struggling as it is.. he'll drop down to 45% winrate if they nerf him again. They already hard nerfed him with the IE changes, no need to fuck him over even more

GreatWhiteNorthAug 21, 20181 votes

{quoted}

no need to nerf yasuo, hes struggling as it is.. he'll drop down to 45% winrate if they nerf him again. They already hard nerfed him with the IE changes, no need to fuck him over even more

I wouldn't call a 48% win rate struggling: https://champion.gg/champion/Yasuo/Middle

No one is asking to nerf Yasuo. What people want is that Yasuo becomes fun to play against.

SuperMewKittyKatAug 21, 20183 votes

give him mana cost :)

DuskDaUmbreonAug 20, 20182 votes

Brilliant idea.

Now nobody can say he has a double passive!

The Bad TouchAug 20, 20182 votes

I say we lower his health. Make his autos deal next to no damage. Make him use mana. Give all of his abilities 8-22 second cooldowns and swap windwall to his ulti. Turn his passive into shielding magic damage only.

Sounds terrible right? That's basically every mage in League.

Modl Ryden lAug 21, 20182 votes

If his Windwall is that much of an issue, I'd just say lower the duration of his Windwall by 1 sec. 4 Seconds is more than enough and 3 seconds will most definitely get the job done. The only time it matters is when it's deployed for the purpose of stopping something major. Like Ashe Arrow, Lucian Culling, MF Barrage, Jinx Execute, Riven Wind Slash. Or mild CC from Braum Q, Leona E, Jhin W.

I already know of the 'standing-in-wind-wall-to-protect-yourself-against-ranged-basic-attacks-and-abilities' tactic, it's rarely used so I wouldn't think this tactic would be unaffected entirely. Even more so, 4 seconds to see-saw around the windwall is a long time to stall as it is.

Finally just for design purposes, the Windwall doesn't look like it should stay up for 4 seconds. Once the animation kicks in all it does is slowly drift forward until it fades out and for 4 seconds which is a really long time for a swoop of wind to dissipate.

HerlgarAug 20, 20181 votes

I always thought Windwall should last a much shorter time but give him some kind of bonus for blocking abilities with it. It's a recurring mechanic in divers/skirmishers (Jax, Fiora, Irelia) and would fit better in his combo playstyle, as well as making it so we have to put more thought into when to use Windwall.

YuGiHoAug 20, 20181 votes

every yasuo would die at lv 1, then also at lv2 because they always want to fight.

Z3SleeperAug 21, 20186 votes

A hyperscaling late game champion having a bad early game? Preposterous.

YuGiHoAug 21, 20181 votes

all we can do is dream.

RyzeTheSmurfMageAug 21, 20181 votes

cries in Ryze E mana cost nerf

JunkοAug 21, 20181 votes

He is not hyperscaling though. He hits his crit powerspike (which is supposed to be the hyperscaling part) at 2 items in mid game in exchange for crit damage loss (well that was the idea, but the 30%or something true damage potential he has with Conqueror and IE right now is aids). Yasuo actually has a shit late game if he didn't snowball and if you don't have a team built around him if the enemy team knows how to deal with Yasuo, but I'll agree teams that are built (used loosely, all you need is 1 champion that can reliably knockup a carry) around Yasuo are actually aids and I have no idea how Riot can fix it without removing iconic champion combos.

Z3SleeperAug 22, 20181 votes

Yasuo actually is hyperscaling, he just scales faster initially due to gaining more multipliers faster but they are in effect for the rest of his build which is essentially increasing all bonus AS and AD he gains by 80% (a little more than that cuz true damage).

I'll draw an awesome microsoft paint graph that roughly shows this.

https://imgur.com/prGbDMh

Due to 100% crit -10% crit damage he loses about 20% overall damage for a 80% increase but ADC has 60% crit which amounts to a 60% increase.

So Yasuo scales faster and reaches a higher point than an ADC at max build.

Ps: the graph should been even wider at the end, since it's always 20% more than an ADC's scaling.

Ofc this is ignoring abilities and their scalings.

Rıots Bad ClientAug 21, 20181 votes

The only thing I would suggest is decrease the CD of his Windwall. Then Decrease the Life span of the Windwall. And make it so that it can only block Non-Ultimate abilities. (With expectations of Vayne empowered autos, Corki Rockets(But not his passive)

{For example:

COOLDOWN: **FROM ** 26/ 24 / 22 / 20 / 18 TO: 20 / 19 / 18 / 17 / 16 LIFESPAN: 3.75 TO 1.5

munguskillerAug 21, 20181 votes

ur a genious

RanmiakuAug 21, 20181 votes

personally i find the most annoying part of yasuo is that god damn flow shield, its back up way too often, and soaks up en entire ability, so its not easy to poke him down at all between that and his windwall, just has a completely overloaded kit