Why does a full tank garen do more damage than almost all Full AD?

DontGankMeISuck·Mar 17, 2017·6 votes·6,316 views

Read title. Just want to hear explainations Btw im not talking about adcs in general i mean all players who build AD or lethality

20 Comments

Mecha MaIphiteMar 17, 20177 votes

Consistent AoE damage over a longer duration is going to add up to more than massive burst on a single target. Consider how much of his damage is being outputted towards tanks and bruisers who just happen to be next to him and how much is going towards the squishy backline, versus the damage distribution on an assassin or something.

HäßlichMar 17, 20171 votes

Yeah, this is a good point too. Garen's damage in post-game charts is always inflated, and not a very good metric to determine how useful he actually was.

FakeGravityMar 17, 20171 votes

basically same issue with brand support damage chart, is the sustained damage of the passive that slowly add up

QuephaMar 17, 20175 votes

Because he doesn't die before dealing any damage.

This is the nature of pretty much every juggernaut.

ShahamutMar 17, 20171 votes

Pretty much this: A living Garen will ALWAYS do more damage than a dead one :P

HäßlichMar 17, 20174 votes

He doesn't. Go test it with the practice tool. His burst combo (Q->E->auto) only does like 250 dps and then goes on cooldown. The only way for Garen to do good damage is to go bruiser, and even then he's only likely to get up to 500-600 range if he's trying to not be squishy.

Meanwhile, full built Ez can do a burst combo for upwards of 1200 dps, and still gets to keep a good 300 or so with just autos (not counting his low cd Q).

Meep ManMar 17, 20173 votes

I disagree. Infinity Beyblade Garen with item 3031 item 3071 item 3147 item 3814 item 3142 waiting in a bush is instant death for any unfortunate soul that isn't some "mother of all tanks".

HäßlichMar 17, 20171 votes

And if he's standing on a ward, he'll get deleted in 0.2s by just a little focus fire from the opposing team.

Also, the post was about full tank Garen, and you're using a full dmg build.

GigaPubeMar 17, 20172 votes

because you gave him an early kill, then at 26 minutes he was 7/0 so he couldve killed you with 0 items as a 2/3 wukong

its not so much about the champion and more so that any champion with a higher level than yours can beat you even with a few different combinations of items and builds. so if you were actually 1v1'ing him 100% health to 100% health, at 26 minutes, thinking you would win, then you have a lot more issues yourself than having an admirable complaint about any specific champions. if you got 1v1 solo killed by a FULL tank garen, at 26 minutes, who is 4400 gold and 2/3 levels up, its all on you. i dont know how you managed to die to that, full tank garen actually has pathetic damage, which you will hopefully eventually see one day

RalanrMar 17, 20171 votes

I'm gonna need to see proof just to be sure.

Off the top of my head, surviving longer in fights means your damage ramps up. And if your target goes back to heal, comes back to get hit, then returns to heal again, they are taking more damage than if they just died.

Plus there is Garen's execute ult which scales based on missing HP. A tanky target executed by his ult will take more damage than a squishy target executed by his ult.

HäßlichMar 17, 20171 votes

They take more damage, but are more likely to survive, because the squishy adc without armor/mr/hp is eating that execute damage too (at much lower amounts), but is more impacted by the high base damage.

I had a calculation set up, but found errors that made it dysfunctional, so I deleted that stuff. I can explain the concept more in depth, if you'd like, but think about it in a basic way:

If Garen's ult does an additional 1 damage for every 2.5 health they are missing, he deals 40% of their missing health, so having more health means that you up the threshold before he can execute you. Then add some MR, and you put a small multiplier on that threshold.

Example:

You have 30 MR and 2500 max hp, and are currently at 1200. 1300 * 0.4 = 520. Add the base damage of 525, and his ult will deal 1045 damage, before MR. After MR, this is 804 damage.

Either way, you would have survived this.

Let's say you are currently at 900 hp. You now takes 896 damage after MR. If you have 1 less MR, you will take 903 damage. That's the difference MR makes vs Garen.

If you had 20 more hp, you would survive with 24hp. This is because the execute threshold is raised when you build more HP. If you had 20 more hp, and 1 less MR, you survive with 17hp.

Even though people normally think of %hp damage as a counter to max hp, max hp still lets you survive longer either way.

RalanrMar 17, 20171 votes

So...my assumption was correct?

HäßlichMar 17, 20171 votes

Depending on how you look at it, yes. =)

They take more raw damage (assuming the same current hp %), but they will probably survive it better than, say, and ADC.

Taliyah RocksMar 17, 20171 votes

Because that's all that Garen does, damage.

No CC, no dash, no peel, just damage.

...and a very annoying silence.

A Bad MysticMar 17, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=My Hands r 2 Big,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oQvV2IAH,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-03-17T15:39:06.993+0000)

Because that's all that Garen does, damage.

No CC, no dash, no peel, just damage.

...and a very annoying silence.

his q is cc just a soft cc.... stops channels, stop abilities. keeps people from using actives. its nowhere near as good as polymorph but its useful in the right situations. was alot better when it lasted longer though.

HäßlichMar 17, 20171 votes

Also stops Flash, and that's super important to know about him. He does damage and he's a huge ball of tanky stats. That's all he's good for.

DuskDaUmbreonMar 17, 20171 votes

FULL-tank Garen is very rarely seen, because it's not good. You typically see him with item 3071 , which, combined with his E, rips your armor to shreds almost faster than selling 6 thornmails would. That enables him to do quite a bit of damage with his maxed Q, and his ult is an execute. A truly full-tank Garen would only be able to do more damage over the entire duration of a fight, and would have a significantly lower DPS.