More ranked divisions/tiers for lower elo players

onelostpuppy··34 votes·3,601 views

I was just wondering, i remember when there was only gold silver and bronze. SInce then the roster of divisions has grown to include diamond platinum challenger and master, as that gives a nice diversity to the top players. What about the 70-80% of players who are in bronze and silver? Do we not deserve more diversity? i understand this would add more leagues to climb to get to diamond or challenger(not that i will ever make it there lol)

Currently since season 2 i have been stuck in bronze 5, sometimes i can make it to bronze 1. it doesnt matter how many promotional matches i win, i get bronze 5 every season. Why even try to win the promos? I know im a better player now than i was when i was in season 2.

if we had more divisions beneath bronze, it could make it more time consuming for smurfs to bump thier buddies up divisions, it would give lower elo players more substance, as they would be able to actually move through some divisions and feel like they were actually getting better.

2 or three divisions beneath bronze would also move the "elo hell" that "doesnt exist" down a couple divisions.

why is there no "Griefer division" i understand there are penalties to going afk and leaving games, but they dont mean much to people who dont care anyways, or that can just make a smurft and be right back into bronze griefing. if you had a division you were placed into that was aside from any other division and didnt matter what your elo is, a division like low priority q, that you can only get out of by playing so many games without any incident before you get back to the division you were moved from.

Say a silver player and a gold player both afk for 3 matches in one week, they would be placed in this separate division until they played so many games without afk, and none of it would count towards anything except getting back to where they left off.

the disparity of skill level between one b5 player and another b5 player can be significant, right ive been playing for 5 years, and you have new people who have played one champion only and just hit level 30 playing and get b5.

This is the exact same reason you made higher division tiers, do lower elo players not deserve the same attention? Do lower elo players not deserve a better indication of where thier skills actually lie?

Honestly i have no care if i move up or down, as long as when i play ranked im moving. a couple more divisions would give that diversity without affecting the better players that you seem to focus on ie platinum and up.

If there were more divisions this could also remove the need to base the promos off of an ELO from last year. Everyone every season could ACTUALLY START FRESH instead of being haunted by every past mistake they ever made.

The day i turned level 30 in season 2 i started playing ranked, and i did really bad, so halfway through the season i quit and waited for the next season. But low and behold, i had botched my MMR and ELO so much, that even winning all 5 games the next season i got bronze 4 anyways. As it has been for every season ever since. Last season i believe i won 7/10 promo's i got bronze 4 lol. this season i win 5/10 i get b5. like..... How do you think that made me feel? i dont even want to rank anymore ever. and i know a lot of people that feel the same way. i win half my games and yet i am the lowest of the low.

How many players do you have that dont even rank at all because they know they will be in bronze and never move? if you had more divisions like i said, it would add more substance for the majority of your players, it could possibly get people playing ranked who would be scared to be "stuck" in a league.

Oh and another thing i find super ironic, is that my smurf is ranked gold 3, but i cant climb out of bronze on my main. How is that possible? Because there is no such thing as "elo hell" right?

If you look at the statistics, Bronze and Silver make up 70%-80% of the player base.... Why would you not want to add lower divisions to round those numbers out a bit? 2-3 divisions underneath bronze would make each division under gold only 10-20% of the player base, Meaning you would actually be in a league with people who are in your skill level.

I understand all the arguments that say well if your bronze and you want to be gold it shouldnt be that hard, maybe for you, but everyone isnt the same.... that is why there is a ranking system in the first place. By giving more tiers to lower level players you end up having more consistent games. IE you are playing with people who make the same mistakes you make, all the time. It gives you perspective, you learn what areas you need to work on to move to the next tier. As it is bronze has so many people with so many different problems it can be hard to figure out where to start. Especially for new players.

85 Comments

GamblerOfLives21 votes

yes

wood division would be great

onelostpuppy4 votes

or lead, or anything really, honesltly i cant tell you what i am besides b5. even though the other day i went 9/0 with janna, ive been 40/2 with taric lol. i know a new player wouldnt be able to do things like that yet they are the same division as me

TheSingularity1 votes

I'd go bronze then: copper (OJ) rock (grey_ wood (dark brown)

And I'd make bronze shinier

onelostpuppy1 votes

I was thinking have a stone division and a wood division, and each could have a few tiers like dolomite, granite, limestone, and oak, aspen, willow or something.

nice table1 votes

how the fuck does 40 kills on a taric happen

onelostpuppy1 votes

i was playing aram with a new friend of mine(lvl 15 i think) and 4 people on the enemy team were obviously bots lol.

actually if you have any low level friends that can play aram, pretty much every match is full of bots, its crazy and sad.

Swiftstrike49 votes

Most lower elo players are in EXACTLY the division they belong in. They don't need additional tiers. Most players that play enough can get into Silver pretty easily.

Most players that stick to 2 champions and 2 roles only will hit Gold V with NO problems.

Silver and Bronze players champion hop, play hard champions, emphasize kills, or don't play enough. Anyone can get to gold by playing just 2 or 3 simple champions and ONLY 2 roles.

Most players in silver or bronze don't do that.

onelostpuppy1 votes

That doest mean you dont deserve to know EXACTLY where your skills lie, instead of just being approximated in. All i am arguing is the exact same argument higher elo players had when they wanted higher tiers. If you are a silver player or higher this doesnt even affect you so why do you care?

Swiftstrike42 votes

{quoted}

That doest mean you dont deserve to know EXACTLY where your skills lie, instead of just being approximated in. All i am arguing is the exact same argument higher elo players had when they wanted higher tiers. If you are a silver player or higher this doesnt even affect you so why do you care?

You are exactly where you skill lies. There does not need to be much differentiation in Bronze or Silver because most do not win consistently. Not enough to climb and the way the MMR system works the Bronze V with low MMR will be matched with other Bronze V or Bronze 3 low MMR opponents.

MMR matches people up according to their skill, the ranks and divisions are largely decorative. Typically you are NEVER really mismatched against players because of MMR. Had a Gold V player in my Plat IV game not too long ago. They were great though and we won because the MMR matched us appropriatedly.

The reason why the high elo players wanted more divisions is because there was a MASSIVE skill gap between Diamond I and CHallenger or it was impossible to get to Challenger even if you kept winning. They created master for that purpose. A lot of games were mismatches because there are SO FEW players at that elo. So a CHallenger player would face a Diamond I player simple to pair him up for a game. There was a problem in that elo because of player pool and the matchmaking was not accurately matching up players.

However, in silver gold and bronze there are plenty of players and the MMR system is really good at matching players up to their appropriate skill.

Anyone, can climb out of bronze. It is very easy, just takes a lot of games, commitment to simple champions (learning how to win a game macro game) and not straying from too many champions or roles.

Morticianjohn2 votes

The game matches you by MMR so they could have easily made the same master/challenger system without introducing new ranks. The same argument you make about not needing more divisions for silver/bronze players can be used for not needing more divisions for Diamond players. Instead of master/challenger just call it Diamond 1 move all d1 players to D2 and so on down the line until we are left with Bronze-Silver-Gold-Diamond. Just get rid of platinum. Match players by their MMR D2 and have one highest division (D1) with all of the master/challenger D1/D2 players ranked based on their LP in D1.

The OP isn't asking to be removed from bronze. He just wants to know how different it is between bronze 1 and bronze 5 so that he can track his progress as a player.

onelostpuppy1 votes

Im literally asking for something for 80% of riots ranked playerbase, technically you all are a minority now because you lumped us all into bronze

Swiftstrike42 votes

MMR accurately matches you and your opponents. The divisions don't mean too much.

Asayake 5150glow2 votes

{quoted}

Most lower elo players are in EXACTLY the division they belong in. They don't need additional tiers. Most players that play enough can get into Silver pretty easily.

Most players that stick to 2 champions and 2 roles only will hit Gold V with NO problems.

Silver and Bronze players champion hop, play hard champions, emphasize kills, or don't play enough. Anyone can get to gold by playing just 2 or 3 simple champions and ONLY 2 roles.

Most players in silver or bronze don't do that.

Well, most of us lose our motivation to spam our mains.

I was doing amazing with Riven/Fiora, and then I got sidetracked with random FTP's, Quinn, Shyvana, Katarina, GP, Kled, tons of others.

Swiftstrike43 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cant Hold Me Now,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oE6FEb6G,comment-id=00010002,timestamp=2017-06-10T23:09:14.209+0000)

Well, most of us lose our motivation to spam our mains.

I was doing amazing with Riven/Fiora, and then I got sidetracked with random FTP's, Quinn, Shyvana, Katarina, GP, Kled, tons of others.

Well you are playing also high skill cap champions. That sounds also more like a commitment issue than anything. Find a champion you like to play and play them a lot and you will improve and get to gold. If you want to play other champions you will NOT climb as effectively because you cannot perform as well mechanically on ALL those champions. You look at most high elo player they literally play 3-5 champions and two roles. They don't deviate too much from that.

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

{quoted}

Well you are playing also high skill cap champions. That sounds also more like a commitment issue than anything. Find a champion you like to play and play them a lot and you will improve and get to gold. If you want to play other champions you will NOT climb as effectively because you cannot perform as well mechanically on ALL those champions. You look at most high elo player they literally play 3-5 champions and two roles. They don't deviate too much from that.

No, I love playing Fiora and Riven but it just gets hard when I spend a couple days without playing them, and then that first Riven game always makes me cringe. I'm just lost my motivation to climb and would rather spend my games doing phantom barrels and crazy shit like Bork+PD Kled, for example.

Swiftstrike42 votes

If you don't care about climbing or winning than play what you want. The OP is mostly talking about how the divisions don't line up with player skill, which I completely disagree with.

Asayake 5150glow2 votes

{quoted}

If you don't care about climbing or winning than play what you want. The OP is mostly talking about how the divisions don't line up with player skill, which I completely disagree with.

Well, they don't. If you don't play consistently.

I do understand what you're trying to say though, and I can't say you're wrong.

Morticianjohn1 votes

There are two separate things I read in the OP

  1. Starting position. He states he starts "bronze 5" each new season even though he always finishes Bronze 1 or 2. Plus he always starts bronze 5 in spite of improving each season.

This is a good topic of discussion, however, I don't know that there is a fix for this "problem" because at the start of each season there are fewer players who have been placed. With all of the top players starting lower than they ended.... I just don't see much changing for the starting position of the OP without another type of change which brings us to his second point

  1. More divisions. I don't think he is saying that the divisions don't line up with player skill but that he can't differentiate his own skill in relation to the other bronze players other than to know that he beats many of them easily. Why is someone who is better than 1/3 of all players in the game lumped into the same queue as someone who is in the bottom 10% of all players? Why are these two players the same rank? Why does he have to pass 200,000 players to move from bronze 5 to silver 5 but a gold player only has to pass 40,000 players to move from gold 5 to platinum 5.

essentially the OP wants more divisions so that he can track his progress. Instead of after all of the ways he has improved and after passing up hundreds of thousands of players in skill he is still in the same division as the worst player in the game today.

onelostpuppy1 votes

No i finished bronze 1 or 2 once, every other season i ranked i quit after promotionals because i got bronze again, even after winning a large portion of those promotionals. My first season i played over 100 ranked games and lost most of them and ever since then i have never been able to get up past b1. the time i did get to b1 it took me like 140 games, and then as soon as i got to b1 i had like 3 matches with 2afks and a bunch of other shit and 14 games later im b5 again.... its ridiculous.

on my sons account ( he is 8 i only made it so he can play customs with me) i decided to ranked and got silver 2 that same season, like 35 games later i was gold 3.

PlanetWarwick1 votes

{quoted}

Most lower elo players are in EXACTLY the division they belong in. They don't need additional tiers. Most players that play enough can get into Silver pretty easily.

Most players that stick to 2 champions and 2 roles only will hit Gold V with NO problems.

Silver and Bronze players champion hop, play hard champions, emphasize kills, or don't play enough. Anyone can get to gold by playing just 2 or 3 simple champions and ONLY 2 roles.

Most players in silver or bronze don't do that.

2 champs doesn't matter Rank 1 Heimer with 3m mastery is in b5

Swiftstrike43 votes

If they aren't actively trying to improve in the process and try to win, yes it doesn't matter. And a lot of low elo player are not trying to do this. If you look at the top Nasus masteries half those players are lower elo and build troll items.

Cowseed2 votes

Most lower elo players are in EXACTLY the division they belong in. They don't need additional tiers. Most players that play enough can get into Silver pretty easily.

People with higher ranked smurfs than their mains prove this cliam to be false.

Swiftstrike42 votes

This maybe has occurred IF they don't play their main role or champion. Most high elo players have smurfs and EASILY climb.

I have a Gold III smurf that placed in silver. I have had ZERO issue climbing because I play my main. So those players that claim that are either screwing around or not very good players. Talk to

https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=Swiftstrike5 This is my smurf it placed in Silver II. Had no issue climbing and my MMR was not even that high on this account.

And on my main (this one) I placed in Bronze I at the start of season 6. Had zero problems climbing to low gold.

Cowseed1 votes

Kind of proving my point

So those players that claim that are either screwing around or not very good players. Talk to

You probably are thinking indirectly that they are better than their division but don't put out the effort. I kinda just think most people are tilted being bronze, never try to climb and just generally screw around, as you say yourself.

BigBellBrute8 votes

Hear Hear. More divisions. We bronzies need someone to look down upon.

Lexyy3 votes

Yesss, wood division. Finally!

Cocho3 votes

I agree, 70% of the playerbase in 2 divisions just sounds dumb to start of with lol

five oh tree 3 votes

Simple: add Iron division below bronze.

Snowplosion2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Time And a Half,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oE6FEb6G,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2017-06-11T00:18:54.587+0000)

Simple: add Wood division below bronze.

FTFY

Brain Errör 4043 votes

I'm totally down for new divisions. I say add another 4-5 divisions under bronze.

-Wood -Paper -Copper -Tin -Iron

onelostpuppy1 votes

or you could stone division like, granite, marble, sandstone. and under that a wood division, oak, aspen, willow.

Teemodanegro3 votes

The problem is that no matter what it'll be a bell curve. So it really doesn't matter where you move the curve on the graph, players are still bad and generalized.

onelostpuppy1 votes

thats not true at all. right now bronze alone contains players between 0-1200 mmr a difference of 1200. Silver 5 to MASTER is like 1201-2900 a difference of only 1700. You have almost as much diversity in bronze as you do in the whole rest of the ranking system combined.

having more tiers would make sure you are getting matched more closely in mmr. the difference between s5 and s1 is only 200-400 mmr.... thats a big difference compared to the 1200-1400 between b5 and b1.

Teemodanegro1 votes

Most of the playerbase is in silver - gold.

If you're in bronze you're almost as rare as a plat player.

onelostpuppy1 votes

that is not true at all and you are just spreading mis-information. 31.06% of players are in bronze, 38.97% are in silver. 20.43% in gold. bronze and silver together make 70.03% of the entire ranked playerbase. gold and silver combined is only 59.4%.

http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/rankings/rank-distribution

Teemodanegro2 votes

You just quoted flex queue, no one plays flex.

We're talking about solo queue. where most of the players actually play. SIlver and gold make up the largest majority of the player base, thats where the bell curve exists. You should stop spreading mis information and learn to read the graphs you provide.

onelostpuppy1 votes

You are right i scrolled down too far, however, no need to be a dick, and also, you are still wrong, and spreading mis-information. i edited the previous post to reflect the true values. have a nice day jack leg.

Dukues2 votes

"Oh and another thing i find super ironic, is that my smurf is ranked gold 3, but i cant climb out of bronze on my main. How is that possible? Because there is no such thing as "elo hell" right?"

... there's no way this is true and if it is there is more going on than what your saying. I used to be for more division but at the end of the day it won't change anything it will only make an already long climb longer. Games are matched based on mmr so whether your bronze 5 with super low mmr or bronze 6 or 7 (if added) you still going to get matched in same games.

onelostpuppy1 votes

No i finished bronze 1 or 2 once, every other season i ranked i quit after promotionals because i got bronze again, even after winning a large portion of those promotionals. My first season i played over 100 ranked games and lost most of them and ever since then i have never been able to get up past b1. the time i did get to b1 it took me like 140 games, and then as soon as i got to b1 i had like 3 matches with 2afks and a bunch of other shit and 14 games later im b5 again.... its ridiculous.

on my sons account ( he is 8 i only made it so he can play customs with me) i decided to ranked and got silver 2 that same season, like 35 games later i was gold 3.

Dukues1 votes

Lol this makes no sense to me. Like... I guess it's possible but you really have no idea how to carry a game then. Which kind of proves why support is such a joke role in low elo.

It does bring up a good point I have argued for awhile though of why new account starting mmr is way too high. Its almost impossible to get ranked into bronze after the start of the season on a fresh new account and with the inflated lp gains even someone like you who can't carry themselves out of bronze could maybe make gold with a lot of luck since such large lp gains and minimal lp losses to start.

Reality is this system forces players to play hundreds of ranked games to maybe rank up to their average skill level. It sucks, but it is what it is. No point even playing provisional games unless you plan to play at least 150 ranked games in a season. It does get pretty annoying.

You know how I felt having this account back in bronze after finishing gold 3 last season? Was annoying but knew I would drop (just didn't expect to land in bronze). So spent this season re-ranking back to gold.... which I finally got to but now I don't feel like playing this game anymore. Which sucks because games are actually "fun" again for me. But I am just so sick of League even playing an evenly matched game like I wanted to weeks ago sounds dull as shit to me now. Guess I will just take my free skin and leave.

I do have another account that was placed B3 just got back to silver. I have already played like 60 games though. Granted, not all were my main role but then that also shows it does matter what role you play. I can carry as jungle up to mid gold, but other roles are a lot harder for me to carry on consistently. I mean... I did rank 3 accounts to gold last season playing 3 different roles (well 3.5 played lots of mid up to like silver 2 and in gold). All but top really I guess..... but that was 6+ months ago. Meta has changed, I am rusty, so my main champs not as good now as they were back then plus I am slower and worse at csing.

If you really want to rank out of bronze stop playing support or play carry supports like mages. I can carry low silver & bronze games as supports like Brand or Velkoz easily it just gets boring knowing most games no one is going to push or try to end so you have to literally do everything. Maybe around high silver you can switch to playing more actual supports but... even then it can be hit or miss.

onelostpuppy1 votes

Also it wouldnt make the climb longer if you cant place lower than b5, after that if you suck more you could drop to keep bronze clean. if i fell down more divisions after that i wouldnt cry. ive been bronze 5 for 6 years on this account. I main support, i can play other roles but not as well on rift. HItting silver 2 and playing support from silver 2 was super easy to move up. cant do that in bronze 5, and i cant carry or do well consistantly in another role.

OHminus1 votes

....are you trying to make climbing more tedious and difficult?

onelostpuppy1 votes

No, i say people should probably start b5 even if they lose 10/10 promo's but after that fact if you continue to do poorly you will drop out of bronze.

OHminus1 votes

No, the annoying thing is that at the start of each season, you're placed at a division lower than you should be placed. If I get placed into, say wood 2, it would take me an entire division longer to get back to silver.

It would be easy, as I climbed fairly easily out of bronze. Wood would be easy as well. But it would just take so many more games to get into a higher division.

ˉˉˉˉˉˉ1 votes

Bro if you're a better player just make a new account, start from scratch, and rank up with positive MMR from the start. Trust me, it'll be way easier to climb on the next account.

onelostpuppy1 votes

i spent too much money on skins and i own almost every champion at this point. i mean ive had this account since season 2. Its not that im worried about being ranked gold or anything. i wouldnt care if i was ranked as poop, as long as i can play ranked and move. i have no idea what my mmr is, and im being matched with people between 0-1200 mmr, the entire ranking system only goes up to 2800 everything after that is just master. so you have almost as much diversity in bronze as you do in the entire rest of the ranking system combined.

ˉˉˉˉˉˉ1 votes

Chill, you sound like you'd lose this account if you made a new one.

You do realize you can always play on both your smurf AND your main...?

Hallbuster1 votes

I'm in bronze 1 myself and will admit Elo hell is only real to a very vey small degree. There's only one case where that applies, when you get an entire team of feeders. However, this is incredibly, incredibly rare. It's happened once in the past 20 games and I brushed it aside. Is it easy, no, you need champions that scale well and can turn into a hyper carry late game, Vladimir and Vayne would be some good examples.

This isn't to say I'm a perfect player, I sometimes tilt too, which is why I never pull double standards and blames my team for their 1/8.

I can carry one feeder, maybe 2, 3 is a struggle but 4 is impossible.

Maybe we can duo when you have time :P.

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

Some friends have joked about being Cardboard and Styrofoam.

Embertine1 votes

YES! MAKE WOOD DIVISION A THING!!

If Riot would make wood Division than I could actually say I'm in wood division and not be lying!

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