Fiora nerf thoughts

TiltMast3r·Jul 4, 2017·5 votes·649 views

Fiora is finally getting nerfs, which are needed. However I think they are nerfing the wrong thing. No one was complaining about her movement speed being a problem. It is her damage that is too high in the early levels.

Currently vital hits do 2% hp base true damage + x% per x bonus ad ( not sure what the other numbers are but not relevant for this)

Why not do something like make the base portion scale per level. Ex lv 1- 0%, lv 6- 1%, lv 11- 2% (doesnt have to be those exact values)

Thoughts?

Maybe this isn't the best answer but something about her early game needs to be weaker. Q mana costs being much higher early on could work.

14 Comments

AhristocatsJul 4, 201710 votes

fiora nerfs are garbage because the philosophy behind it is garbage

they BASICALLY said "late game belongs to marksmen, we're nerfing her late game movement speed so she has a hard time fighting marksmen who should be the king of late game"

so basically, riot balance team thinks that toplane does not deserve to carry a game

Fiora should get early game nerf, not late game nerf

Pierce The VealJul 4, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=WTF DARIUS ADC ,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=o21GE9nz,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-07-04T10:26:09.247+0000)

fiora nerfs are garbage because the philosophy behind it is garbage

they BASICALLY said "late game belongs to marksmen, we're nerfing her late game movement speed so she has a hard time fighting marksmen who should be the king of late game"

so basically, riot balance team thinks that toplane does not deserve to carry a game

Fiora should get early game nerf, not late game nerf

This is true.

IllegalBagelJul 4, 20174 votes

She kept on parrying nerfs for so long, She must of had 45% cdr

Critmaster GarenJul 4, 20172 votes

stop a moment to think how irrelevant 2% bonus damage is. the damage portion of her passive is the last thing that makes up her early game strength. the heal off the vitals, her auto attack resets and the resulting synergy with fervor of battle make 99% of her early game strength.

what they could do is the same thing they did with lucian. increase the mana cost on her q at early ranks and have it scale down to 0 mana cost at rank 5.

this would improve her mana sustain in extended teamfights where she actually tends to run out due to how much she has to constantly spam her abilities to be able to carry.

The Yetii RiderJul 4, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=o21GE9nz,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-07-04T11:04:53.683+0000)

stop a moment to think how irrelevant 2% bonus damage is. the damage portion of her passive is the last thing that makes up her early game strength. the heal off the vitals, her auto attack resets and the resulting synergy with fervor of battle make 99% of her early game strength.

what they could do is the same thing they did with lucian. increase the mana cost on her q at early ranks and have it scale down to 0 mana cost at rank 5.

this would improve her mana sustain in extended teamfights where she actually tends to run out due to how much she has to constantly spam her abilities to be able to carry.

Why do you want the trademark duelist (1v1) of the game to be better in team fights? That should be her biggest weakness.

Pierce The VealJul 4, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=o21GE9nz,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2017-07-04T12:56:19.008+0000)

Why do you want the trademark duelist (1v1) of the game to be better in team fights? That should be her biggest weakness.

She really isn't the trademark duelist. That's her lore. She's always been the teamfight melee carry.

The Yetii RiderJul 4, 20171 votes

Not anymore. Her ultimate may provide some help to her team but it's still basically just "let me 1v1 this guy real quick".

Pierce The VealJul 4, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=o21GE9nz,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-04T13:26:27.244+0000)

Not anymore. Her ultimate may provide some help to her team but it's still basically just "let me 1v1 this guy real quick".

I mean, you can proc those all in like 1 second. A lot of carries have single target ults, doesn't mean they're automatically removed from being teamfighters.

I understand Fiora is supposed to be a duelist by lore, but historically she has always fulfilled the role of teamfighting carry. Remember her old ult? Even then, she was more of a teamfighter than anything else.

Pierce The VealJul 4, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=o21GE9nz,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-07-04T11:04:53.683+0000)

stop a moment to think how irrelevant 2% bonus damage is. the damage portion of her passive is the last thing that makes up her early game strength. the heal off the vitals, her auto attack resets and the resulting synergy with fervor of battle make 99% of her early game strength.

what they could do is the same thing they did with lucian. increase the mana cost on her q at early ranks and have it scale down to 0 mana cost at rank 5.

this would improve her mana sustain in extended teamfights where she actually tends to run out due to how much she has to constantly spam her abilities to be able to carry.

This.

Râmmus BotJul 4, 20171 votes

50% win rate but is capable of snowballing out of control, can easily 1v3 or 1v4 by bursting everything in front of her, i would of thought she had atleast a 59% win rate as i have never won a single game with her on the enemy team. She does way to much damage and can lifesteal sustain way to much.

Hinagiku33Jul 4, 20171 votes

Yeah, Fiora's been ~50% win rate for ages despite her high play rate. I tend to win when the enemy team picks Fiora so I don't really think her damage is insanely high or anything, it's just that she can snowball and any champ that snowballs usually wins.

I can't say she does "way too much damage" because Marksmen exist and that entire class deals at least as much damage if not more and can do so from the safety of 550+ units away.

Her healing off of Vitals really isn't that impressive. The base 30 HP heal is okay at Lv. 1 but all it really does is help heal off the minion agro she is forced to take if she does anything.

The real problem early game is how frequently her Vitals are up. I've said for a while that when one is popped or reset (due to distance from Fiora) it should stay down for a bit early game to give her opponent room to breathe, then scale down per level so she can chain them properly later in the game when she really needs it.

That and nerf Lifesteal across the board for all champions in the game - it's flat out ridiculous right now and is most of the reason Fiora is obnoxious.

Brain Errör 404Jul 4, 20171 votes

They simply need to cut her sustain, remove AS slow on parry and cut her health regen. Bam, nerfed and late game remains. They can give her some more late game scaling if it hits too hard, but I believe that riot is, yet again, hitting the wrong spots.

The Yetii RiderJul 4, 20171 votes

She would basically have no passive at level 1 if you did that. Get into a telegraphed position to hit the enemy in order to gain a slight movement speed boost for the first 5 levels of the game. That's...that's terrible.

Edit: Forgot her heal. It's slightly better then, but still puts her way behind other duelists in the early game.

Fiora should definitely be able to bully, I don't see a problem with her doing that.

Pierce The VealJul 4, 20171 votes

Tbh vitals aren't her biggest problem.

I'd say she'd be a lot less outstanding if she weren't basically manaless early game.

I saw a suggestion earlier that I think is great. Flip her mana cost scaling on her Q. Make it something like 40/30/20/10/0. Or even harsher. Her Q spammability early game is ridiculous. But late game, she runs oom super fast. I think it should be the other way around.