Ryze currently at lowest winrate after rework at 37% in mid lane
May be necessary to make some changes in order to help the guy out. True that the new ryze hasnt been out for long, but 37% is far from optimal. Just trying to call to attention.
May be necessary to make some changes in order to help the guy out. True that the new ryze hasnt been out for long, but 37% is far from optimal. Just trying to call to attention.
Still too soon. Give it time.
Huh, I don't know where you're getting your stats from, but here's what I'm seeing on lolking:
Overall, I think 40-41% is a fairer number for him. Of course, that's still very low. I expect that the number will go up a bit with time as people optimize builds and get used to him (I hear Manamune is actually kinda insane with him now), but with numbers that low I'd be surprised if he didn't need a substantial buff. 40% is kind of my personal line for being able to say "this champion is really, really bad" just based on win rate.
In short: I think they should probably give him a bit of a buff in 5.10, and keep watching after that to see if he needs more.
Huh, I don't know where you're getting your stats from, but here's what I'm seeing on lolking:
- 40.7% overall
- 41% in ranked solo (eyeballing)
- 40% in Diamond (averaging over several days; the number does occasionally dip down to the 37% number you mentioned, and actually did today so maybe that's what you're looking at?)
- 42% in ranked 5v5
Overall, I think 40-41% is a fairer number for him. Of course, that's still very low. I expect that the number will go up a bit with time as people optimize builds and get used to him (I hear Manamune is actually kinda insane with him now), but with numbers that low I'd be surprised if he didn't need a substantial buff. 40% is kind of my personal line for being able to say "this champion is really, really bad" just based on win rate.
In short: I think they should probably give him a bit of a buff in 5.10, and keep watching after that to see if he needs more.
Maybe here
http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/ryze
He said he is 37% as a mid laner.
Problem with ryze is that he is under whelming before the rework and people just never known how to fight him and changing his Q makes him worthless in lane since the only way he can win game is to actually be a bully.
Those numbers are still horrid. He needs buffing to be anywhere near viable for any ranked or team comp.
The thing is if the buff him right at the point people actually mastering him it will directly lead to a nerf within a weeks.
We've seen this before with
and many others so it's better to wait a little more to see where the win rate is for people who've started to master him and then judge for buffs.
But right now the win rate is pulled down by first timers on a reworked champ.
Give some time, either A. some pro will find a new way to build/play/put him, B. he will get buffs and become the new OP, or C. new item comes out that makes him busted.

People aren't playing him right at all. That is why. Look at his most popular items. If you're still getting FH on him, you are wrong.
I have found that you should be maxing E, not Q first. E does a shit load of damage if they are standing in a minion wave, and also gives more per rank than Q. Ranking Q also reduces your passive's early game power.
Honestly, Q might want to be maxed last. You really don't gain much from maxing it over W either, as W provides more per rank as well. It also makes you more useful around the time you would be maxing a second ability.
TL;DR Ryze mains are now Ryze noobs
Funny thing; I leveled Ryze exactly the same way with the old design. It might not have been the absolute best path pre-rework, but it's basically the way to deal with post-rework Ryze.
I find that taking E first is a good idea to be able to trade until you hit level 2. Once you do that grab Q and then you can trade fairly well. After that, its up to you how you want to level him judging on the current match up. Need to catch more people faster? Put more points into W. Need more poke? Level Q. Need more aoe? Level E. You see where I'm going.
In terms of actually getting a Frozen Heart... I would only get it if armor would be beneficial to surviving. Ryze can still be built as a tank. Frozen heart is only situational now.
E is better for poke now.
Q is honestly only good lategame and for last hitting in lane
I find E is for harassing better. Q is for short range poke and a "throwaway" cast for his passive. Q is great for last hitting. The problem with Q is that it is a single target skill shot which means that if you engage your enemy with minions in front of them, your Q will be blocked. If they tweaked his Q to something like Veigar's Q it would be more useful in trading.
I have found that you should be maxing E, not Q first. E does a shit load of damage if they are standing in a minion wave, and also gives more per rank than Q. Ranking Q also reduces your passive's early game power.
How does it reduce your passive's power? Q has a 4 second CD at every rank so it's not like you lose out on the CD reduction.
maxing E only works vs noobs that stay within their minion range, the aoe is so pathetic that even melees can avoid getting hit multiple times. Also, Q gets the manaratio increased per rank and is cast ateast 3 times as often in a combo than any other spell and costs way less mana, so while the raw basedamage on a rankup doesn't increase to much, it still offers most damage for combos and also dps while offering more mana-efficient poke in the eary.
And you still get FH on him as it's the only reasonable mana+armor item in the game. He still needs that exta tankiness, and he also still wants some mana, and cdr early on doesn't hurt aswell.
[{quoted}](name=Don Pavoni,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=o18QBIf6,comment-id=00050003,timestamp=2015-05-08T12:40:05.804+0000)
maxing E only works vs noobs that stay within their minion range, the aoe is so pathetic that even melees can avoid getting hit multiple times.
And by level 3, you should know whether they are avoiding it or not, and thus, whether you should max E or W first.
What ? , New Ryze is just so powerful ... ._.
A rework from Riot is bad?
No it isn't! Watch as they give him huge number buffs each patch until it is "successful"!
After seeing Yasuos, Azirs, and Gnars win rates at release, I'm gonna hold off on judgement for a while.
Way to early, Let's not buff the shit out of him only to find out he was powerful before.
I still find people trying to build him like pre-rework Ryze.
The only change I can think of for him is to make his Q travel faster.
The only thing that works against him is his Q in lane, as he can't harass as much, but he's still really good at small skirmishes where his E really shines at reducing magic resist.
Max E first, Q last
The 5% Max Mana Mastery is complete garbage too, and you should not go for it.
4000 Mana = 200 Mana = 8 on Q / 5 on W / 2 on E 22 AP from Masteries = 12 on Q / 8.8 on W / 6.6 on E
Ryze scales decently with AP now
200 mana = 16 on passive shield
22 AP = 0 on passive hield
Granted, how you prioritize is up to the individual, and 16 extra shield might not be enough to be worth it.
200 mana = 16 on passive shield
22 AP = 0 on passive hield
Granted, how you prioritize is up to the individual, and 16 extra shield might not be enough to be worth it.
You spend like 16 points on Utility Masteries for that?
I suppose I agree that we have different Priorities, I think I rather have the 22 AP, +5% AP, 6% Penetration, 1.5% additional damage, 3% additional damage, and 5% additional damage against half hp VS 1.5% MS, 40g, a bunch of regen, and armor & mr
Haven't cleaned my Ryze masteries after the rework, haven't bothered to because I don't play enough pvp for it to matter that much.
I go 11/0/19, getting some mana regen and lots of health regen alongside a bit of movespeed, a bit of extra starting gold, biscuits ('cause why not) non-ultimate bound spellvamp, plus the increased mana, the 5% extra CDR (combined with the 5% from offensive masteries and his ult I cap out without CDR items) and 10% active item CDR for more frequent mana shields from
and whichever other active items I might be getting (
).
I get 1% increased damage for allies, 5% CDR, still get 22 AP and excecute 5% damage on targets at 35% or lower (pending to trade 6 AP for upping that one to the full 50% or lower).
I miss out on some hybrid pen, decent amounts of AP, some damage blocking and some bonus health. and granted, 3% extra damage, as well as the 5% health+mana restore on kills/assists.
in the end, not having to use runes I don't have or get CDR from items I'll overcap CDR from anyway is really the best reason I haven't bothered switching them around yet.
Anyway, I just felt the need to point out you were leaving parts of the equation out, stacking the numbers in favour of your argument unfairly, whether through not paying it any mind or deliberately leaving it out, it was something missing from your comparison.
Note how I never said I personally used those masteries, and exclaimed my doubts about whether or not it was worth it from the scaling you left out in your post.
Honestly, i'm not convinced the 5% max mana mastery was really good enough on it's own before, the real allure is the extra 5% CDR letting you not have specialized runes which you may or may not have (because the only thing fitting the 5% CDR masteries in offense of which you must put at least two points in unless you can justify the attack speed, is Lucidity Boots, which you really don't want to be building on Ryze right now, when you could be getting something actually useful instead).
From what I've seen, Ryze now struggles against AD champions, as FH is a bad buy for him, and all of his ratio's were nerfed when it comes to close quarters combat. his E is far higher max damage than it was, but is now very weak in a 1 on 1 situation, which leaves him piddling people's health away while he gets eaten. He is devastating in teamfights now, but since his ratios and mechanics no longer work the same, he relies on poking before engage to accomplish what he used to be able to.