zyyra

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The cleanse will remove the snare. The slows will instantly be re-applied and the only the stun portion of knock-ups are removed, essentially turning it into a snare. Mikael's is worth less against Zyra than most others because of her continuous output.

You won't get mikales for zyra,she has other teammates,which aren't useless.

Calling Righteous Glory popular is like calling Black Cleaver or Ravenous Hydra popular. It's not that it's a commonly built item, it's that those who can use it are more often picked, but not even they will consistently build it.

Once again,stay bronze.

The most Locket gives in its shield is 230. Mikael's gives the same amount in permanent health with only 800 hp. Locket's shield is inferior to Mikael's heal throughout the game, with the only non-comparable aspect being its multiple recipients. Doesn't matter much to Zyra seeing as she has insane AoE, and builds at least 30 mag.pen. by the time the enemy has Locket finished.

You still can't seem to grasp how the math of amor/mr works.

lol. Half of the champion pool can reliably escape Zyra's ultimate? Now you're just purely showing off how little you know about her. I just told you why it's difficult to escape, giving examples of the few who can, and you can't even come up with a single example.

Zed,leblanc,fizz,rengar,you know,things someone needs to protect the adc from. you also have things like leona or malphite,who will be hit by it,but by the time it goes off the game will already be lost.

Landing the snare within ≈550 units is as simple as can be unless they're actively using dashes to avoid you entirely (which usually happens when they're panicking to make a getaway). In fact, you don't even have to land it to get CC on them, since your plants will sprout no matter if you hit your target or not.

They won't care for the stupid slow when they are killing you.

Annie has to get in the close-medium range of 625 to hit people with her CC or deal any damage at all. Zyra gets at least 800 range to poke, and will continue dealing damage for as long as the plant stays alive and within its respectable range.

So first you say zyra needs 550 range to reliably hit her stun,at which point it may still be avoided with mobility,whereas annie is guaranteed to hit hers at 625,oh and it's also a stun,and nobody cares about this shitty poke of yours considering the fact you need to put yourself at such risk to use it.

Do you know how to get two different plants in the same space at the same time?

Yes you idiot,everyone does.

Probably not,because it's obvious you have never learned Zyra.

Moron,and once again you are wrong.

Get that superiority complex checked by a doctor, because you're suffering from extreme overplacement.

I'd suggest the same thing,just that I would be right.

Twisted Fate's only methods of defense at close ranges are his gold card or out-bursting. Zyra can land a snare and slow them for moments at a time, or burst them down.

I would take a point click stun over a bunch of skillshots when I need protection from a hyper mobile assassin anyday.

Pretty comparable considering Zyra's build accounts for the health discrepancy, has faster burst, and has more range than he does.

Did you just say zyra has more range than twisted fate? didn't anyone ever tell you not to go full retard? twisted fate poke and lategame wave clear completely outperforms zyra,whereas early is more about the fact that unlike zyra,he can actually roam.

I said that on small scale they matter very little. Actually have an understanding of basic english. Over enough games (≥1000) win-rate becomes a pretty important measure since it will already include virtually every extreme and variation while still maintaining a vast amount of "average" cases.

No,it doesn't,it will still be dominated by skews,when a champion is played why and who plays it means a hell lot more than anything else.

If I accepted every challenge from an over-confident tool that uses insults in their "arguments", I wouldn't exactly be anything but brain-dead, now would I?

Well I'm not sure what you are getting at,you are probably brain-dead,or very close.

You don't give any examples as to who to ask,

Right about any high elo support streamers,but if you want names,the most notable one I've asked on steam was xpecial,who says she was overnerfed way too hard and won't see any play until buffed(though that was a while ago,but not too long). Aside from that painless often streams,and he is challenger-masters at the moment,I didn't think it was that hard to open lolking and see which ones of the high elo players had a lot of support games but you're right,I definetly overestimated you being able of figuring out something so obvious.

which I could have actually respected you for no matter how biased those options were,

Thing is,you're not gonna find anything else,I have friends in diamond/masters/challenger,you being too busy being a moron and just assuming that the "silver is right",in your arrogance the option that I have already discussed this with a lot of players,all of them way better than you,you were just so busy being a clueless clown,the option I wasn't one hasn't crossed that empty mind of yours.

but you continue to act like a butt-hurt brat instead. Using only distastefully placed ad hominem and lacking entirely in posteriori.

There is no other way of arguing with an idiot aside from calling him an idiot,idiots don't care for anything,logic is senseless against you.

Yellowstar - placed #14 in the top players list made by Riot in 2013 - Played Zyra little under two weeks ago. And won.

And where is the link to this competitive game(this better not be some solo q semi trolling you are talking about),that seems like something rather important for this argument,as finding one game played two weeks ago isn't too easy,especially when I have serious doubt it happened in competitive(and I don't care for one game in solo q).

He probably wouldn't give a fuck about your opinion.

That won't change the fact he probably holds the same opinion as me to begin with.

Edit:So I've went through Yellowstars match history on op.gg...and after a lot of scrolling,I managed to find a zyra game he played ~60 games ago(or two weeks,if you want to make it sound better),I guess he must be an idiot,playing so much of low winrate alistar,and building righteous glory on him so often(note:this is sarcasm,I just realized you actually might be stupid enough not to get it,he is perfectly aware of zyra's state,that's why he nearly never picks her,not even in solo q).

@ massive quote pyramid that mentioned annie I like Annie against Zyra. auto+Q instakills a plant, and Q resets

Oh, hold on, I was comparing Zyra to Annie, not pitting them against each other. Annie has the upper hand against Zyra, yeah.

You can't even come up with something against the explanation. Yet again.

You mean the part where penetrations counter resistances? Just building an Aegis won't save anyone from a high magic damage output.

Zed would already have to have a shadow out, Leblanc would have to use her ult or already have the platform down, and Fizz is unlikely to make it at all unless he Strikes through someone. If you think that it's as simple as walking out with a snare and slows on you, you need to go to a better school than Storm Trooper Academy.

I'm impressed by the 109 games during S3, so yes, you have learned Zyra.

I'm not the one insisting his infallibility and continuing to argue points with little to no proper explanation. If you really knew how to counter my arguments, you would have done it by now. So either I'm right, or you don't know how to prove me wrong. You could try to educate instead of insult, because idiots aren't trolls.

800 range with a [Q] + Seed gives poke. [Q] is difficult to dodge at any range, and the resulting plant still deals damage. 800 range is not difficult to safely poke from. You don't need to lock anyone down to simply poke.

Twisted Fate needs to get within 525 range to CC and deal the other half of his accessible damage output. Zyra needs 700 to use her entire kit. Twisted Fate's ultimate is easily telegraphed, so it's only capable of catching people off guard provided there's brush or a nearby teammate is ready to give the chance already, meaning it's unreliable as a gap closer.

I can't give you the benefit of the doubt when you claim something like that.

A champion's potential cannot be measured. When you've got literally everything going right or wrong for them, it's easy to (incorrectly) assume their relative balance level. Knowing their win rate and pick rate is enough info to make an educated guess as to their power level.

This is the game. Sincere apologies for the easily confused name, but hey, at least it's Fnatic's support. She's still picked in Diamond, and still sees minor play in Master. She's definitely not as picked over those like Janna and Sona, but your arguments as to why are just bullshit.

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You can't even come up with something against the explanation. Yet again.

That's because you are so delusional it doesn't matter what I say. If you had any shred of sanity left you would've realized you are wrong 20 times over by now.

You mean the part where penetrations counter resistances? Just building an Aegis won't save anyone from a high magic damage output.

resistances counter flat pen,%pen counters resistances,support zyra can't afford %pen till a lot later in game.

Zed would already have to have a shadow out, Leblanc would have to use her ult or already have the platform down,

Oh noes! le blanc will have to reuse her w to completely ignore your ult? all the while her combo is so fast she would've probably used it even if you didn't ult? oh man,the horror!

and Fizz is unlikely to make it at all unless he Strikes through someone.

Or you know,go invulnerable,he has a tendency to do that,being fizz and all.

If you think that it's as simple as walking out with a snare and slows on you, you need to go to a better school than Storm Trooper Academy.

On something as mobile as current assassins are,there is simply very little reason for that snare to land on them to begin with,there's a reason highly reliable cc is so favored now(alistars wq,annie,nautilus ult) but you are too bad to be aware of that,and too stupid to take the word of better players.

I'm impressed by the 109 games during S3, so yes, you have learned Zyra.

And another one of your baseless assumptions goes down the drain.

I'm not the one insisting his infallibility

YES YOU FUCKING ARE. you keep making idiotic pointless statements,you based your argument on me not playing zyra,you were proven wrong,you based arguments on flat pen countering resistance,you were again proven wrong,seeing how you are insanely delusional,I told you to just ask a highly skilled player to settle this,yet you refuse to do so,cause you are afraid to death of fallibility,and know that the moment you leave an opening to be proven wrong,you will be proven wrong,so you don't.

and continuing to argue points with little to no proper explanation. If you really knew how to counter my arguments, you would have done it by now.

Again,I've already done that,you are too delusional to see it,it's like arguing evolution with a creationist.

So either I'm right, or you don't know how to prove me wrong. You could try to educate instead of insult, because idiots aren't trolls.

You call my zyra bad,then when I insult you back(which is also very deserving,considering you made a baseless assumption,which was also wrong),but no,you aren't trolling,you are just so stupid it seems that way.

800 range with a [Q] + Seed gives poke. [Q] is difficult to dodge at any range, and the resulting plant still deals damage. 800 range is not difficult to safely poke from. You don't need to lock anyone down to simply poke.

Here's the thing though,pretty much any skillshot poke has a higher range than that,and I can't think of any skillshot poke with lower range than that,it is also worth noting zyra is very squishy and very immobile,making her poke riskier,and her an unworthy pick overall.

Twisted Fate needs to get within 525 range to CC and deal the other half of his accessible damage output.

aa range is different than spell range,so 525 aa range is about 575 skillshot range.

Zyra needs 700 to use her entire kit. Twisted Fate's ultimate is easily telegraphed, so it's only capable of catching people off guard provided there's brush or a nearby teammate is ready to give the chance already, meaning it's unreliable as a gap closer.

Yes you tell your bot lane how easily telegrahped his ult is while he appears behind them with an immediate point click stun. god,stop being so bad.

I can't give you the benefit of the doubt when you claim something like that.

So just go on a stream and ask. Oh wait,fear of fallibility,I forgot. carry on with excuses then.

A champion's potential cannot be measured.

Sure it can,stop being bad.

When you've got literally everything going right or wrong for them, it's easy to (incorrectly) assume their relative balance level. Knowing their win rate and pick rate is enough info to make an educated guess as to their power level.

But we aren't making guesses here,this isn't about making a first guess about the power level of a champion you know nothing about,I'm aware enough of her problems her winrate becomes irrelevant,just because you are so bad you can't tell how bad she is doesn't mean people who can play this game can't as well,just because you are clueless doesn't mean everybody is.

This is the game. Sincere apologies for the easily confused name, but hey, at least it's Fnatic's support. She's still picked in Diamond, and still sees minor play in Master. She's definitely not as picked over those like Janna and Sona, but your arguments as to why are just bullshit.

News flash,sona is trash,and once again,any good player will confirm that,but wait,you are too afraid of fallibility to actually check right?

And here's the thing EVERY FUCKING CHAMPION IS EVENTUALLY PLAYED IN DIAMOND/MASTERS,you know eve after she was eve'd,olaf after being olaf'd? diamond/masters is large enough that they occasionally saw a pick here and there,and for the case of eve even riot said she was garbage,and the worst part is?

Even with this extremely obvious evidence that this argument is garbage,you still won't accept it,and like the average creationist,will continue on spewing nonsense on not being proven wrong.

Go ahead,ask yellowstar,ask any competitive support player what they think of zyra. But right,fallibility...nvm,go ahead on spewing nonsense on how you haven't been proven wrong.