Status of Shen Rework?

sanct22··29 votes·31,657 views

Could we get a status update on the Shen rework? And/or time frame of release?

Mostly curious on the direction of the Passive, Q, and W ability direction as it was mentioned before the E and R would remain likely similar in function.

Thank you

81 Comments

RiotMeddler19 votes

It's high ish on our list of smaller reworks (smaller as in some gameplay changes, with visual/audio changes as needed to support those, rather than a full relaunch). Marksmen polish, bug fixing and followup, plus Poppy, are the champion update team's big priorities at the moment though. Shen's rework definitely won't be this year, early next year's looking like it could be feasible though.

TheMeta885 votes

What's Taric's status?

I want to Gem God all over fools!

What direction has he been taken?

What has been kept from his current kit?

RiotMeddler6 votes

At a high level current intent is to stick with a pretty similar feel (armored defensive warrior, power of gems, kind of paladin like vibe, similar personality etc). In terms of kit we're still thinking similar effects (heal, stun, allied armor buff etc), though with some different ways of manipulating/delivering them.

TotalJerk1 votes

I maybe be misremembering, but wasn't there a point where someone at Riot said Taric was pretty far along?

DJ Di01 votes

{quoted}

I maybe be misremembering, but wasn't there a point where someone at Riot said Taric was pretty far along?

Last I heard (think it was mr. Parrot) they said they were making some progress.

RiotMeddler6 votes

For quite a long time we were blocked from working on Taric because we hadn't found what we felt was the right way to update him without losing core parts of his character. A little while back we found a direction that we're really happy with, so we're now in a position where we can look at putting him into the pipeline.

Progress in terms of direction and goals basically, rather than progress in terms of producing the actual character for the game.

Afleezy1 votes

What about his visual overhaul?

Akali is SO HOT4 votes

Could I also ask really quickly what the ETA on the Akali rework will be?

IE soonish or not until pretty far into season 6. Thanks.

RiotMeddler10 votes

We don't have a timeline for Akali at present. Could be a moderate time after Shen, could be a long time after.

Cuix1 votes

I remember an assassin overpass being mentioned elsewhere as a possible next big project after juggers/marksmen. That seems like the best time for an Akali rework; she doesn't need it so badly that it can't wait 'til then.

RiotMeddler10 votes

We haven't decided which class to tackle after marksmen. Assassins are definitely a possibility, but still just one of several options we're talking about. If doing assassins we'd definitely want to sync an Akali rework with that of course.

Divewing1 votes

In the same Vayne of thought (lel), anything planned for Talon?

iamleburk1 votes

Whats wrong with talon?

Divewing2 votes

no counterplay. You think talon is balanced right now, I mean you'd be kinda right.... but theres still and will always be unless reworked, the problem that "if you get close you die". He's just incredibly binary. so 2 reasons kinda

iamleburk4 votes

Counter play is lane phase, he has a very weak lane. He is kind of like an AD kat imo, bad lane but big midgame power spike for roams and solokills. He trades no escape and bad early game for AOE damage and instant burst. Idk man, he seems much more balanced than some of the other assasins, like Diana, Zed, akali, or leblanc.

Handin Out Naps1 votes

Meanwhile highest win rate in diamond >.> and above 50% everywhere else that matters. God darn that weak laning phase keeping him down!!:(

jeffeypop1 votes

unlike hated on rengar... low winrate, lower than average burst. but people remember getting crushed, always. hyper carry/snowball champs always get hate. even if they aren't actually that great.

Divewing1 votes

As far as "weak lane phase" goes, yes he is miles better than the others you mentioned. But that ends at 6, and flask is also very good at getting him there.

iamleburk1 votes

Ok think about why you don't see him in competitive. Its the same reason you don't see Kat; it isn't so easy to get fed off of roams against pro players. He is a snowball champion, with good roams, but can be stopped before rolling. This is how assasins in general work; they hit their power spike, and have to snowball after that spike to be effective afterwards. It has counter play, and it really is frustrating to play against any fed player, and when a champ seems to get fed so easy they seem OP but... he is balanced by the fact he is almost completely useless if not fed.

Divewing1 votes

But that's by virtue of being an assassin, so that's a weakness they all share rather than one that belongs to talon. Also by the way, a weak lane phase isn't counterplay, it's an exploitable weakness. Counterplay= Talon jumped on me, can I do anything in response? Now in most situations the answer is either: "not much" or "no"

RiotMeddler4 votes

It'd be good to do some work on him someday, give him some more distinction from standard assassin tools, a more meaningful passive and better counterplay. No current plans for that though, that'll likely wait until we tackle assassins at a group whenever that is.

Melledoneus1 votes

Have you guys considered making dueling with him more interactive, giving him windows of opportunity, etc?

Just wondering what direction, in your opinion, it will go.

jeffeypop1 votes

this is one of the most promising red posts i've seen in awhile. not that i've been particularly disappointed in red posts, i haven't. but distinction in assassin tools sounds sooooooo interesting to me. juggernauts, marksmen makes sense. but with assassins, all i can think of is burst damage and cannot-counter. looking at diversity there is definitely interesting.

chriserit3 votes

just to point that out (I don't expect you to response and don't really need it).

have you thought about going with a complete rework to zone control mages? from what i read Azir Cassiopeia Zyra are in list for a rework and Heimerdinger Veigar Syndra got main issues in their kits too (which means prob they need a rework too).

This may be the perfect choice, since you reworked Juggernauts (so tank-top laners/jungle) and ADC (so bottom-damage). Zone control mages are midlane-control/zone/team supporting ...everything which is needed right now.

The other 2 big options which are assassins and supports got problems with that. Assassin would not give the support thing needed right now (every rework would be based on a more damage style which is something that could break the balance of the game). Supports on the other end would make midlane more "outdated" since all the lanes would be getting reworks while midlane would still keep being the same (with same problems still there).

that's what i needed to say. hope you will consider them too as well as supports and assassins. Have a nice day.

RottedApples1 votes

zyra doesn't need a rework or many changes. people just need to figure out she can actually be strong if played properly

iamleburk2 votes

Mid lane or support? Because she really isn't that great at either atm. I believe the rework is asking for her to be pushed into the mid lane more, because she is a lot more fun there.

Gorgannan2 votes

You don't rework someone because they're weak. You buff them because they're weak. God damn, how many people don't understand the point of a rework.

RottedApples1 votes

Well, other than item rework which i could understand since all the mage items are nerfed in preseason, i can't think of any reason why someone would want her to be reworked other than a percieved weakness which she doesn't have.

Gorgannan1 votes

"percieved weakness."

You're missing the point man.

ColoWill1 votes

Say that to the Poppy rework, she went from impossible early game to broken af.

Gorgannan1 votes

So she's strong post rework. Buffing is not the POINT of a rework.

Spoofghoul1 votes

Well if you do rework assassins in general and some assassin champions then at least make them less binary. They all do the same snowball and delete people with impunity due to their mobility, and those who don't have excessive healing hi akali or have lots of shielding and tankyness ekko diana. Right now alot of assassins are not in a good spot but give them even a little bit of power and they start blowing up squishies and tanks left and right everywhere making only assasin the viable class to play, remember the assassin meta?

Tanks could use some love too their items got gutted, they themselfes got gutted and their most faced opponents got buffed. This also has an effect on the supports, Who are currently trying to fill the gap of engage tanks and peelers at the same time.

There is just so much stackable armorpen, so you build more health but then there is a ton of %hp magic and true damage floating around making health more useless.

I dont think we will see support diversity untill tanks have been solved, ofc you can gut the current tanky supports but that will make games last alot longer as no team will have engage tools anymore, not that i care but alot of recent changes are pointing in the direction that you want faster shorter games.

L3V3L1 votes

Just another idea: how about an update for immobile, mega-mages? (Not sure what to call the class, maybe warlocks?) The main champs affected in this class would be like Cassiopeia Malzahar Vladimir Swain , and maybe ones like Brand Lissandra Syndra who I think could use some upgrades/power-shifts into a much more powerful mid-late game. I feel a lot of these champs need an update the most because there isn't much of a reason to pick a lot of them over others, and some of their kits just aren't too exciting or satisfying either. Just my opinion though, thank you guys for listening to our feedback. :)

Gigahappytown1 votes

{quoted}

We haven't decided which class to tackle after marksmen. Assassins are definitely a possibility, but still just one of several options we're talking about. If doing assassins we'd definitely want to sync an Akali rework with that of course.

Assassins are fine their are only about 3 of them that would need gameplay updates or reworks if any class needs a update its mages viktor still outclasses several other mages.

there is very little reason to pick xerath syndra or ziggs over viktor or veigar.

Shaian2 votes

{quoted}

We don't have a timeline for Akali at present. Could be a moderate time after Shen, could be a long time after.

You said earlier you´d like to look at Zyra´s passive again in preseason. Is it still something you want to address or you too busy now?

RiotMeddler6 votes

Way too swamped right at this moment, from memory she's on the Live team's list of champs they want to assess again once things quieten down a bit though.

Goodnight Nunu2 votes

Ahh, so are the preseason changes the reason we haven't seen anything Mordekaiser related pop up?

OnanThaMan7 votes

shhhhhhh whats a Mordekaiser ? Is it like a Cassiopeia?

As sad as it is he is the next Cass at this point. Reworked poorly and then left to rot.

RiotMeddler4 votes

In large part yes. We were also looking to understand how large a nerf the reduction to his W experience passive would have.

Photos of Ghosts1 votes

Can I ask once again... http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/EeHy2mPF-riot-how-hard-is-it-to-do-this-fix-on-morde How hard is it to do? Why on earth wouldn't it be better than live?

Malicious Metal4 votes

Hard to get the intel if he's banned a lot, eh? Anyways, I think I speak on behalf of all Mordekaiser fans if I tell you that we still think he's a hot topic. Making him drift into limbo, awaiting his inevitable second rework is not a fate we would like him to face :/

Still, Preseason SHOULD be a priority. Can't make the game unfun and unbalanced for the majority of players and expend all resources for Mordekaiser. (Even though some of us would love this XD )

JudasLover2 votes

Way too swamped right at this moment, from memory she's on the Live team's list of champs they want to assess again once things quieten down a bit though.

Seeing this made me take off my clothes cause I got too hot from the excitement.

Hexten8 votes

{quoted}

We don't have a timeline for Akali at present. Could be a moderate time after Shen, could be a long time after.

Since Akali is not getting her rework anytime soon, can you guys please look into an unintentional change you did to Akali in Patch v5.9 and give her something in the meantime so that she is playable until she gets her rework?

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/EcgM4FR2-akalis-ultimate-dash-speed-reduced-since-v59

The change to her ultimate dash that makes it strikethough her target unintentionally lowered the missile speed, and increased the animation time required to complete the dash, leaving Akali more vulnerable because it locks out player input during dash flight. Since this is unintentional, could you please fix this, or pass it onto the correct rioters that know how to fix this?

Thanks.

SourCustard3 votes

As an Avid Akali player since S1, can we please get an official red response to this? Not much thought or testing was even made into the strike through since most dashes do not behave like this e.g. Irelia, Xin etc.

Can't it just be removed all together? This change just made her feel more clunky to play. If you see any video from YouTube on Akali Pre-5.9 patch the dash speed is noticeably more faster than what it is now.

It's the worst kind of feeling that you could of gotten a kill but you didn't because the dash speed is slower and lockouts player input longer.

PapaGreg211 votes

{quoted}

We don't have a timeline for Akali at present. Could be a moderate time after Shen, could be a long time after.

Why is Shen higher on a rework list than Akali? He gets played all the time, even in Pro play and has an important and healthy niche in the game. On the other hand, Akali is the worst assassin in the game.

Maximum Morde3 votes

{quoted}

Why is Shen higher on a rework list than Akali? He gets played all the time, even in Pro play and has an important and healthy niche in the game. On the other hand, Akali is the worst assassin in the game.

You just answered yourself. If he has higher play then there is more reward for effort spent on him, compared to spending effort on an assassin. Let's face it, most assassin players jump to whichever one is currently the best, so unless they reworked her into the strongest one, probably not a lot of reward.

Teslablade2 votes

Any chance of a Malzahar rework? He really needs it

Cuix1 votes

I love current Malz!... and he really doesn't work after a certain Elo. Hate to say it, but he really does just need to be changed outright.

Teslablade2 votes

He was my main for a really long time, and is also my most played champ. He lacks counterplay and has a lot of hidden power.

SlyTactician 1 votes

Is there anything coming up for Kennen ? Just curious to know, he's seems rather forgotten atm and he is the last member of the Kinkou Order.

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