Re: Unusual Playstyles | /dev diary - League of Legends

JinandWin··13 votes·1,598 views

Riot Meddler encouraged members of the community to share their opinions on unusual playstyles and thoughts on them.

I've played League of Legends since Season 2, and I've been in every division except Bronze, Master, and Challenger. So I speak about this with relative understanding of player skill across divisions.

I'd first like to address the issue the community took with AdellaideSkyhart's strategy and Riot's response to it. Though not specifically addressed in the video, a lot of people in the comments assume this is an indirect response to such a thing with people continuously stating (as a meme) that playing support Singed is bannable (which Riot said wasn't true, he was banned because of lack of communication and disregard for other player's feelings on his strategy, whether or not you believe that reasoning is up to you).

When playing League of Legends, no matter how much time passes the general idea of the game should remain the same. You lane, teamfight, and push to destroy the enemy base. With these expectations, people might take issue with unusual strategies and picks.

When the adc in AdellaideSkyhart's games queued for the role, they were probably expecting a support (of some sort) down bot lane. They would've been fine with true supports, AP supports, MF support, or even Yasuo support. That's because when that adc queued up, he had a general understanding of how games as an adc should have gone. Go to lane, farm, wait for ganks, try not to die, and then teamfight. He probably expected his support to join him down bot lane (perhaps after trying to steal the enemy jungler's buff), and then his support might've roamed mid after a few waves.

When AdellaideSkyhart joined the room and pasted his copy pasta of what his strategy and pick was, he must've been a little shocked to say the least.

Solo queue is a complete mess, no one is on the same page about anything, but when playing you have a general understanding of what other people will pick and do. When AdellaideSkyhart picked Singed "support," (in quotes because he didn't play like one) everyone had to play a whole different kind of League of Legends.

The enemy bot lane had to go hyper aggressive, denying the enemy adc as much as possible and looking for an easy kill. The enemy jungler had to go on the defensive, there were two people with smite on the enemy team that would be invading him. The enemy midlaner and toplaner had to care for double jungler ganks.

On his team, his adc had to sit at tower. Any further and he'd be over extending. If the enemy jungler, mid, or Teleport Top came to gank, he would probably die, and if the enemy bot lane had a blitzcrank or some other catch support, he'd die if hit by cc. His jungler (his duo queue) would have to help him invade. His mid lane had to care for the enemy bot lane early roaming due to no pressure down bot.

The reason why AdellaideSkyhart got Plat 4 (in my opinion) was because this was a brand of League of Legends he was used to playing. Everyone else in the game had to learn as quickly as possible how to play with his strategy. Everything they learned about the laning phase their entire League of Legends careers was out of the window this game. The enemy team was at the disadvantage in this sense, 5 out of 5 of their players had never played this kind of league of legends.

On his team, AdellaideSkyhart and his duo queue jungler were used to this brand of league, so only 3 players had to adapt. The players put at the most disadvantage was the enemy jungler, and the ally adc, which in my opinion is unfair to them. Losing this game would not be vindictive of their skill in League of Legends, it would be vindictive of their skill playing with AdellaideSkyhart.

This logic also applies to champions that are never played. If you play a champion no one else plays, you have a slight advantage because they're not used to fighting against you. How many times did you have to google movesets of champions you never play against? How many times was that useless anyways because you didn't know how to trade against them properly?

So yes, AdellaideSkyhart got Plat 4 playing his brand of League of Legends. However, when he took a break in fear of another ban, he got Gold 5 playing the "normal" (our) brand of League of Legends.

Using my explanation above, I feel as though things mentioned in the video do not apply to unusual playstyles.

AP Trynd and Tank Ekko were not unusual playstyles, they were unusual (or unintended) builds. When creating the champions, riot's design team intended them to be AD and AP respectively, but players found that building them differently was more effective. To change this, Riot decided to nerf their numbers that encouraged the unusual build.

Their playstyle when using this build was normal. AP trynd would go top lane or mid lane and act like a normal champion. Tank Ekko would go top lane or jungle and act like a normal champion. Were they frustrating to fight against? Sure. But were their playstyles different than any other character in that role? No.

The champions' numbers were changed to discourage those kinds of builds. Whether they thought the builds were too strong, or they didn't want the champion played that way Riot changed them. The issue was with the champion itself, not the items they built. Think of it this way: AP Ekko and Tank Ekko were two different champions. Riot nerfed Tank Ekko. Riot's balance team chooses whether or not unintended builds remain in the game or are nerfed, just like any other champion balance choices.

MF support was an unusual pick (it's now common so I used the word "was"). When creating the champion, riot intended for her to be an adc. But Albus Nox played her as a support, and soon everyone realized how great that was and you started seeing her as a support at all levels of the game.

Riot either enjoyed MF as a support, or could not change her in a way that would only discourage MF support while not nerfing adc MF. So support MF remains in the game, and I quite frankly enjoy that people found a different way to use a champion other than their intended role.

However, proxy Singed is an unusual playstyle. Singed has about a 2% pick rate. So for every 100 games, he's in 2 of them. Let's say 1 of those Singeds is a proxy Singed. That means 1 out of 100 games you have to play a different kind of League of Legends.

I main top lane, and I personally do know how to fight against proxy Singed. (Not so subtle brag: I've fought Singed420 and beaten him) But my jungler might not, or if I'm autofilled and someone else goes top, they might not know how to fight against it. The amount of games where my jungler tries ganking the proxy Singed only to waste his and my time because he gets away or executes himself it countless. In the video shown, the Singed went into the base to kill a wave. I'm certain the mid laner didn't enjoy losing a wave to his top lane.

When proxy Singed is in a game, the whole dynamic of the game is changed.

This might be me bagging on Singed, but really it's me blaming Riot. Singed was the first champion they ever designed, and ever since a big nerf back in Season 2? or somewhere the only way to effectively play him is to play him in an unusual playstyle, like proxy or whatever you wanna call AdellaideSkyhart's. I don't know how Riot could change Singed so that he's viable but not playing unusually. but I do know how they could prevent proxying.

Proxy fix: minions gain armor and magic resistance, but lose this buff back to their normal state when they reach the furthest tower in their lane. Similar to how towers lose their armour/magic resist buff when enemy minions are near, minions will lose armour and magic resistance when they meet the furthest tower in their lane.

So in conclusion, Riot needs to understand the difference between unusual playstyles, unusual/unintended builds, and unusual picks. In my opinion, unusual playstyles are unhealthy for the game, while unusual or unintended builds are up to Riot on whether or not they're nerfed, and unusual picks are healthy for the growth of the game.

TL;DR: In my opinion, unusual playstyles are probably unhealthy for the game. There's a difference between unusual playstyles and unusual/unintended builds and unusual picks. Unusual/unintended builds are up to Riot on whether or not they should change the champion's effectiveness with the build. Just like any other balance change, if the build is too common it's Riot's job to change it. Unusual picks are healthy for the game to grow, as seeing champions change roles over time is an interesting way for the game to change.

29 Comments

Brascus9 votes

Riot: we don't want the game to stagnate, so we're pre-emptively making risky changes to shake things up

Player: I've found a new playstyle that shakes things up

Riot: http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/007/423/untitle.JPG

Chønklord7 votes

If players didn't buck the system and try different playstyles, we wouldn't have a jungle or the 1-1-2-J setup we have today.

JinandWin5 votes

I was going to add my counterargument to this logic, but my post was getting lengthy so I decided against it, but because you commented this I'll leave my argument here.

League of Legends as we know it will remain the same meta for a really long time, if not forever until the death of it as a game.

Unusual playstyles made sense in the beta and season 1 because players were trying to figure out the best way to play the game. I'm not saying that the 1-1-2-J setup is the most optimal way to play the game, but it was the most effective found in the early stages of League of Legends, and everyone adopted it.

Some guy running around soloqueue as Singed support jungle is not going to change the game as we know it.

The reason why Riot took so long to implement role selection in rank was because they didn't want to discourage game changes. However, with the addition of role selection, they pretty much admit that the 1-1-2-J system is here to stay, for a long time at least.

You can quote me on this, but if the meta ever changes away from the 1-1-2-J system, I'll buy you any skin you want. Don't take this as me patronizing you, but as my absolute certainty that the system will not change in the foreseeable future.

Chønklord4 votes

Riot has said that 1-1-2-J was created by players and is currently the most optimal way to play the game that they or players know of.

It was not always that way.

My point is that without the ability to express and develop different playstyles (and sometimes all it needs is one person), we would not be where we are today within this Meta.

They also said they do not want to discourage players from trying new playstyles or off-meta builds, but that they aren't going to try to do anything to encourage change, either.

MetalGearTeemu4 votes

I think players should man up and play the game, and let people pick what they want to pick.

One of the worst beatings I ever saw a darius take top lane was to a fucking blitzcrank. You want to know how much faith the team had in the crank? "Report him, someone dodge" levels. then he fucking slaughtered the Darius and everything was gravy.

unusual picks are not bad picks. Nor does it mean the guy is trolling. In season 3 I got gold almost completely off the back of support urgot. You know why? because morg was in every single game, and I just decided I wasn't going to play the "black shield ruined my damage" game. We won each lane so hard that ultimately it didn't matter that I was largely there to ult into the enemy team, spread damage redux around and pop a randuins then die.

Our carry had 5 kills coming out of lane.

The big issue is that this community by and far are sheep to the established pro meta, and if they had their way the meta would never change, because people would only pick the same shit they always do. People experimenting is exactly what causes the meta to shift, and as long as the guy is trying, and has a clear plan with what he's doing, i don't care if he takes a fucking Garen/Sion Lane bot. I'll worry about my own performance.

Mecha MaIphite4 votes

OP differentiated between going an off-meta picks/builds and off-meta playstyles. The former is obviously fine provided it actually works to some extent, but the latter is a bit more complicated.

He already identified the problem with the Singed, that he was essentially forcing everyone in the game to play around him. While it's not necessarily a bad thing to do that, it's completely understandable that people get frustrated with him; it's not at all what they're prepared for, and they're essentially forced to change their entire strategy to accommodate him.

To put it into perspective, think of an ADC main who demands that everyone modify their playstyle to accomodate him; the support and top lane have to pick champions with good peel, mid and jungle need to focus on bot and get him fed. Some people probably aren't going to be happy with this set up, especially considering it's solo queue and people don't really trust their teammates. The jungler might decide camping mid or top is a better option, the top might decide to pick a splitpusher, the support might want to play tanky engage.

People whose playstyles warp the entire game should be held to the same standard, if not to a greater one. People probably wouldn't be too happy with the scenario I described above, and that's with a fairly well-established strategy. With Singed support, you have to consider other elements, such as how comfortable people are with drastically altering how they play. Forcing an ADC to 1v2 when they were never prepared for it is like forcing someone to first time a champion in ranked.

I'm all for experimentation; if off-meta was bannable, I'd probably be on my third account. But I also understand the kind of repercussions it would have if I were to take a game-altering strategy into ranked, on a team full of people who have no idea how to play with it.

TwitchInMyPants1 votes

So I've never heard of anyone being banned for being defiant of the team's objective calls other than Singed/Nunu support. I regularly get uncooperative behavior on meta champs and I can safely say the treatment of these selfish playstyles isn't equal. One tricking in ranked is supported if you get a role your champ can play successfully, except when it comes to off-meta playstyles it gets way more scrutiny just for being different. 5 instalocking players making a bad team comp is much more common and greater or equal to any disruption a roaming support or weird champion causes.

MetalGearTeemu1 votes

To put it into perspective, think of an ADC main who demands that everyone modify their playstyle to accomodate him

So every game basically?

Troll for Trump1 votes

I'm sorry, the Darius was complete garbage. Just letting you know that.

MetalGearTeemu1 votes

your projection is noted.

Troll for Trump1 votes

Basically, anecdotes don't count for much

MetalGearTeemu1 votes

no more then your assumed opinion of the anecdotal Darius skill.

I at least have the firsthand of seeing it. You're just making wild assumptions about the users skill.

Troll for Trump1 votes

If you lose to a Blitzcrank as a Darius, you're bad at Darius. Three possible combinations:

Darius skill level > Blitz skill level Darius skill level = Blitz skill level Darius skill level < Blitz skill level

Darius will only lose to Blitz if his skill level is less.

If Blitz could win vs Darius when the blitz player is of equal or less skill levels, Blitzcrank would be picked as a counterpick to Darius in higher elos or whatnot.

But he isn't, so...

Darius skill level < Blitz.

Guy is bad at Darius.

MetalGearTeemu1 votes

however you want to sell it to yourself to make whatever insecurity you're projecting on the matchup go away.

You a darius main or something?

Troll for Trump1 votes

Yes.

You're missing the point.

The anecdote is an anecdote. Nothing more, nothing less.

MetalGearTeemu1 votes

No.

You don't even see why I'm walking away from the comment do you, you already have a bias by assuming the darius is bad. likely because you are projecting some internal insecurity onto his play based on past experience. The Darius was actually quite good, the crank was just brilliant.

That never entered your mind tho, which makes trying to have any kind of discussion with you asinine.

Troll for Trump1 votes

It's not bias; if anything you're biased.

It's common sense and statistics that the Darius won't lose to the blitz.

You keep inserting random ad hominems for no reason.

likely because you are projecting some internal insecurity onto his play based on past experience. The Darius was actually quite good, the crank was just brilliant.

That never entered your mind tho, which makes trying to have any kind of discussion with you asinine.

The one being biased here is you, who refuse to try to discuss or use anything to support your points.

Hemulen Magi2 votes

Speaking of unusual playstyles, can you bring back Yorick's off-roles? 2% top lane, 0.8% jungling, 0.2% support sounds like a very nice breakdown for a healthy 3% pick rate for Yorick. I really miss support Yorick as it was my main role+champion for the first 3/4ths of last season up until he was reworked... Before that, I played Yorick devotedly as a jungler. I was jungling with him even before he was played in LCS as a jungler.

I miss his off-roles so much...

http://imgur.com/a/ouCdZ

http://imgur.com/PvKrAIf

Golden Tager X1 votes

support yorick+xayah against an immobile adc. ggez.

Otarie532 votes

can you guys just agree to let me pick what i want in draft? please?

TwitchInMyPants2 votes

ITT: Fuck everything off-meta because it throws me off, including off-meta champions

Honestly your logic here is weird. I understand the off-meta Singed being uncomfortable but its no different than any other one-trick. If someone is best at mage supports and someone refuses to play anything but Vayne they're prob getting rekt, so if you know your support is going to roam you should be used to concepts like Leona, Bard, and Alistar going all over with mobis. There was some evidence of toxicity but examples like "uncooperativeness" were used to justify it which is dumb. Tons of players are uncooperative every day and will never be banned just because their champs are popular.

And honestly I'd rather have "uncooperative" that's roaming around winning the game and being clear what he's doing with me than someone who ignores objectives and passive aggressively whines in a way where they can troll the game but avoid punishment. And I don't even get how off-meta champs are bad, Riot designed every champion in the game to be played within the game as they launched and they actively update them for the meta.

You seem to think its a bad thing to use these champions even in the right context and even if you type a paragraph to your team because they might be a little uncomfortable yet you never think about the people that practice these picks regularly, use them responsibly, yet get badgered anyway. This shit has been happening as far back as with concepts like Annie Support and we're still seeing new ones like MF sup and Ziggs bot. These are fresh picks in the game and they add new counterplay and keep the meta rotating. If a team full of solo queue people can lock all damage dealers with no cc because they're all stubborn one tricks playing their favorite meta hero I don't see how a Ziggs bot one trick or a Singed support one trick is any worse.

JinandWin3 votes

"You seem to think its a bad thing to use these champions even in the right context" I appreciate those that respond to this discussion, but if my text post was too long for you to read, don't comment, or at least don't act like you know what my point was.

Since you didn't even read my TL;DR, let me give you a TL;DR of the TL;DR. I said that unusual champion picks are fine. Unusual playstyles are not.

Let me give you a run down of what AdellaideSkyhart did. They picked Singed with smite ghost and dicked around in the enemy jungle for the first few minutes of the game. Sometimes he would steal buffs and set the enemy jungler behind. Other times his adc would die, he would die, and nothing would get done.

Had AdellaideSkyhart picked Singed support with exhaust ghost who went bot lane to start out with, there would be no discussion here.

I take no issue with any kind support, as long as they play like a support. What AdellaideSkyhart was doing was not supporting.

Troll for Trump2 votes

Then aren't support carries also unusual playstyles?

Lux and Nidalee support in the past, Brand, Zyra, Vel, and Malz in the present.

JinandWin1 votes

AP supports/carry supports are not unusual playstyles in my opinion.

They would go bot lane, try to go for kills, and protect the adc with whatever cc they had or just pure damage in trying to kill the lane opponent.

Lux, Nidalee, Annie, Brand, Zyra, Vel, Malz, and other AP supports down bot lane I view as unintended/unusual roles. When creating the champions, Riot intended for them to be assassin or damage dealing mid laners, but they found use in bot lane as a pseudo support.

The main point I'm trying to make here is that there are very few unusual playstyles. There's a lot of champions that adopt a different playstyle, but the playstyle that they adopt is not unusual in and of itself.

Here's the cluster logic in my head: AP assassin mid is a playstyle. Support is a playstyle. AP assassin mid generally entails that you do a lot of burst and carry. Support generally entails that you protect the adc in laning.

Certainly, outside of teamfights AP/carry supports play much differently than "true" supports, but AP/carry supports are tried and true, quite common and quite effective.

What AddelaideSkyhart did was adopt a strategy that cannot be called a general archetype. It was a Jungle/Support/Roamer/Troll playstyle.

Troll for Trump1 votes

Ok, here's the difference between the carry supports and support supports.

Carry supports, as their name suggests, play like carries.

Supports try to secure kills, carries try to get kills. Supports try to protect, carries are more "death is the best cc" Supports go for utility to support the team, and carries carry the team.

When you pick a carry support, you're no longer supporting the team, but rather having the team support you.

The only support part about it is that they're going to bot lane and not actively csing.

JinandWin1 votes

I'm aware of the difference between the two. I'm telling you that Carry Supports is not an unusual playstyle. It's very common.

Troll for Trump1 votes

What about picking Morde ADC?

Variks the Loyal2 votes

Unusual builds lead to unusual playstyles by default because it changes the way you play the champion.

Shifting Ekko from a high-risk burst assassin to a front-line bruiser is a pretty dramatic shift in playstyle. He still lanes normally, yes, but everything else about how he plays ends up being different because of the build, so fundamentally, it is a different playstyle.

JinandWin1 votes

Certainly, but how I view it is that Tank Ekko was a different champion entirely.

Yes, I'm fully aware of the fact that Ekko is just a single champion. But while the tank build was popular, I saw him as two.

The first being AP assassin Ekko, that played like other assassins.

The second being the Tank Bruiser Ekko, that played like other Tank Buisers.

Sure, it was annoying to guess in champion select which of the two the player was going, but you had a general idea once in game what kind of playstyle they would have.

In and of itself, a tank bruiser and an ap assassin are very common character archetypes and playstyles.

Rather than an unusual playstyle, tank Ekko just took a common playstyle and used it effectively along with a common build, a tank build.

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