A few questions from a Dota 2 player about game balance

Nami Fanboy··34 votes·15,463 views

A bit about me, I started playing League in open beta years ago, and for about 5 years it was by far my favorite game. I still occasionally come back to the game and play just enough to get a rank and then quit again. In the last year or so I've been pretty much exclusively playing Dota 2 and maybe it's that but after coming back to league again for 10 games or so the game feels a lot worse than it did. I was wondering if the community could shed some light on a few things for me.

  1. I'm a support main in both dota and league and generally play full supports like Soraka and Nami, with defensive secondary runes. Is it intended that burst ADCs like Lucian can almost one shot soraka with a combo at level 3 with no items? Or is Lucian just in an overtuned place right now? As a Dota player pretty much everyone does a ton of damage, including supports, but even in Dota you actually have to have items or levels to do that damage.

  2. In the games I played early snowballing almost guaranteed the win especially from assassins like zed or rengar, which happens in Dota as well to a lesser degree with heroes like Tinker or Storm Spirit, but in Dota a support has a lot more agency to help prevent this snowballing (porting in to counter gank, ganking mid yourself, etc.). In league a support is pretty much tethered to their carry until the end of laning phase by design, so the only person who is really in a position to preventing the snowballing is the jungler. My question is, am I doing something wrong as a support not being able to prevent this snowballing, or is this just the state of the game right now?

  3. Burst in general seems really high in league in comparison to Dota, things hit hard in Dota, but you rarely get one shot by something (even playing a support) unless the enemy team is REALLY fed. And even then the plethora of items with activated abilities gives you a chance to save yourself, there is even an item called Aeon Disk that literally makes you invulnerable for 2.5 seconds when you would drop below 75% health to prevent people who are really fed from auto killing you. It seems like half the champions I played against in my recent league games could 1 shot me with me having little to no way to prevent that. It is simply more viable to play champions with high burst right now? Such as Brand, Zyra, or Lux, instead of Soraka or Nami?

  4. Out of the 10 or so games I played, not a single time did the games feel close. Either my team was dominating until we won, or we were getting stomped until we lose (this does happen in Dota on occasion but only maybe 20% of the time, and you at least feel like there is something you can do). In both cases the games had no sense of apprehension or excitement. Are games generally much closer than this and my games were just outliers? or are games generally so one sided right now? My logic used to be "Never surrender, they are going to screw up eventually." but that seems less true now.

Thanks for taking a look. I used to love league, but in comparison to Dota it just feels poorly balanced and swingy. I could be wrong though, so if anyone can shed some light on how I can fix this in my games I would really appreciate it.

-Thanks

48 Comments

Dovahkiin41639 votes

They have no idea how to balance this game, forget it and go play Dota. League isn't even worth it anymore. This coming from someone who has played this game almost religiously over the past 4 years, not to mention spent 1k+ plus on it. Game is shit now. Wish I could learn Dota

Nami Fanboy1 votes

I would definitely give Dota a try! It has a lot in common with league, with a few major differences. The biggest ones are map mobility, character design, and items. Everyone has high map mobility in Dota because of town portal scrolls so it's easy to counter gank if you are paying attention since you can port to any allied tower every 60 seconds. The characters are all very impactful in their own unique way, supports especially are the most powerful characters early game and have a huge impact, they fall off later, but it's a great feeling being able to impact all of the lanes in a meaningful way.

Stormshadow35031 votes

How big of an adjustment would learning how to deny minions and manage build be? I've considered getting into Dota, but it seems significantly more confusing then league.

Nami Fanboy1 votes

It's not too bad. It took me about 100 hours or so to feel really comfortable with the game, but you can learn the basics pretty easily by playing some bot games. Denying minions is just as easy as killing minions so it's not too hard just depends on how good you are at last hitting. The hard part is forcing your opponent to let you get your own creeps since he'll be trying to deny your creeps too. There is also no blue pill in dota, instead you can purchase town portal scrolls that allow you to teleport to allied towers/fountain for 50 gold. But the cool thing is there is a shop in the side lanes so you can purchase some things there, and if not the courier can deliver items to you. You should make your own courier keybindings to fit your preferences.

I would go into a bot game and take a look at all the keybindings to start off, it will give you a really good idea of what to expect.

BigFBear6 votes

"1k+"?? Dollars??? What the fuck...

XJ999999999999991 votes

{quoted}

They have no idea how to balance this game, forget it and go play Dota. League isn't even worth it anymore. This coming from someone who has played this game almost religiously over the past 4 years, not to mention spent 1k+ plus on it. Game is shit now. Wish I could learn Dota

you can learn dota 2. play some bot games and just get used to the courier key binding (recalling it to you and selecting). it isnt that hard of a game once you get the basics down. I encourage you

l love Ahri1 votes

{quoted}

They have no idea how to balance this game, forget it and go play Dota. League isn't even worth it anymore. This coming from someone who has played this game almost religiously over the past 4 years, not to mention spent 1k+ plus on it. Game is shit now. Wish I could learn Dota

LOL funny how the same shit is happening with dota players. I swear I saw several posts on reddit this month from dota players complaining that their game is shit and they are coming here for a fresh change.

almightygod21 votes

{quoted}

They have no idea how to balance this game, forget it and go play Dota. League isn't even worth it anymore. This coming from someone who has played this game almost religiously over the past 4 years, not to mention spent 1k+ plus on it. Game is shit now. Wish I could learn Dota

If you wanna learn DOTA, then go and play DOTA, if anything I could play with you

almightygod21 votes

{quoted}

They have no idea how to balance this game, forget it and go play Dota. League isn't even worth it anymore. This coming from someone who has played this game almost religiously over the past 4 years, not to mention spent 1k+ plus on it. Game is shit now. Wish I could learn Dota

People are saying the same thing about balancing in Dota as well and are coming to League lmao

Sire Hippington17 votes

well, you prettymuch sum up what league has become by now, massive damage creept and high snowballing for mindless stompfests, It's really sad what a pathetic mess this once glorious game has become...

Though to you're specific points:

  1. Lucian has one of the strongest lvl 3 all-ins in the game, and Soraka is one of the most squishy champs in the game, so it's a rather extreme example. Still, damage overall is damn high, and even on a tank support like Alistar, you have to be very carefully to not get 100-0 by the enemie duo, especially if they have an agressive sup like pyke.

  2. Snowballing is extremly high in league atm, though supports do have some agency in coordinated play. If the duo is dominant or the adc is on a save pick, it enables the support to roam and help the jungle/mid and in rare cases top even early in the game.

  3. Prettymuch nothing to add here, damage is just so damn high compared to defensive options atm, and most champs can 100-0 with even a small lead, and those who can't are basically out of meta...

  4. Again, nothing to add. Games are very snowbally and atleast at higher elos, rather one-sided. In lower Elos, you have a decent chance that a fed oponnent gets cocky and donates some nice shutdown gold or that the eneimies just mess around instead of peoperly closeing out the game, or that they simply screw up big time. In high Elos, the changes for that are much smaller, and just stalling it out or pro-actively finding a come back is not really an option anymore.

Space Jhin9 votes

I'm not even going to bother answering those questions, I can give you an accurate answer to all of them but there's no point. The game is in a horrible spot regarding balance and it's not getting any better, it literally feels like Riot's balance team doesn't even play it... I'll just leave it at that.

Stick to Dota and try again some other time, because in this state of the game I would strongly advise against starting to play/coming back to it.

Eleshakai8 votes

I can put this simply: If you enjoy the way DotA is balanced, you will NOT enjoy the way League is. The opposite is true as well.

The two games have completely different methodologies that are largely incompatible.

You're probably wasting your time on League, since you feel DotA is well balanced.

Nami Fanboy3 votes

You're probably right, Dota is definitely my main game, but I do occasionally enjoy coming back to League and seeing what changed. The main reason for the post was because I wanted to make sure I was giving League's current form a fair judgement so I wanted other peoples opinions.

I think the main problem I have with League after playing a few more games since the OP is just that there seems to be little beyond the early game, you either win fast or lose fast and it seems smarter to just play very safely since risks don't seem worth it when a single one can irrepairable end the game.

Thanks for the reply though!

D357R0Y3R6 votes

As a Dota2/League player myself I would advise you to not play League at all.

The reason league can get you oneshot is because this game is no longer balanced around Defense being strong Dota allows carries to all be tanky in late game with strength giving HP and agility giving armor

League forces marksmen to go full glass canon, and then either get oneshot, or oneshot the others to win. Same with Mages

Then you have melees champions in league balanced around ignoring Defense which is straight up bullshit because their own defense gets countered easily when they need it.

Imagine if MonkeyKing had his billion of armor given by ult countered easily. Because that's what happens in league.

%armor pen or %magic pen does not exist in dota. %hp damage does not exist either on items either in dota, it's a niche mechanic that Lifesteal has to counter tanks. And not everyone gets to be Lifestealer.

Me and you can go on it for months, but at the end of the day I advise you to keep playing Dota. It's not about which game is more balanced it's just about me hating league that is no longer a moba, but more like CoD. As for me I cannot play dota anymore, because I no longer have a computer that can support it.

Daddy Ants5 votes

Lucian is grossly overtuned.

He's honestly worth perm banning atm.

r41p415 votes

[deleted]

Plat HardstuckXD1 votes

One tip: perma ban Lich atm.

WoonStruck1 votes

Cancer Lancer :^)

WatchYourHeadM84 votes

Only thing that needs to be said

Your not required to babysit your adc no matter how many people may ping you. If leaving lane for 30 seconds is safe and gets mid a kill do it. If your favorite idiot runs it down because he doesn’t know how to 1v2 as a ranged champ(justlol) then it’s on him not you

Nami Fanboy1 votes

Thanks for the advice, I'm going to give it a try with a caster support like Lux and Zyra and see how that goes. I tried in a few of my matches but like you said even with me informing them that I was ganking my ADCs seem to love walking in and dying Lol.

DuskDaUmbreon3 votes
  1. Lucian is a bit strong right now, while enchanters aren't terribly durable to begin with. Soraka in particular is notable because she's meant to be weak in lane due to her potentially immense strength in late-game.

  2. Supports are very capable of stopping snowballing in mid (not so much in top due to distance, and in jungle you're not always going to be there in time), and this is commonly done at mid to high tiers of play. This can be highly champion dependent however (as a Soraka ganking mid is almost never going to be more helpful than the risk she puts out by being there, but a Leona or Blitz headed mid is potentially a certain kill), and relies on your ADC being able to hold their own for the duration of the gank.

  3. It's a bursty meta right now. In a while it'll shift towards defense again, and then that'll eventually shift towards burst, and then back and forth over and over.

  4. This is also champion dependent (As games with assassins in them are rarely ever close due to the nature of the class, and assassins are arguably the most popular class in low to mid tier regardless of the meta). And 10 games isn't really a huge sample size. A good portion of my games that hadn't been lost by my shitty internet (and aren't ARAMs) are pretty close.

Plat HardstuckXD3 votes

Lol tank meta isnt going to happen again unless they buff all defensive items and nerf conq.

ArfBarkBoof3 votes

Stay with Dota. League an extraordinary mess right now.

The Goodest Boy3 votes

hey man! first of all I wanna say, if you successfully made it away from league, please fucking stay away for your own sake. the game has legitimately just been getting worse and worse recently. but to answer your questions:

  1. Yes, as of late it's fairly normal to get one-combod by Lucian at level 3. He's fairly disgusting right now, and has been for a little while. It makes no comprehensible sense for an ADC to literally kill someone in a combo at level 3 but hey, he usually can.

  2. If you can, I would absolutely recommend playing a snowball champion. The game is in a massive snowball meta right now, with things like turret plating and league of Dark Harvest. (BY THE WAY: IF YOU CAN, PLAY A CHAMPION THAT CAN ABUSE DARK HARVEST. I legitimately see dark harvest on 3-8 people in every game; I saw it on 9 people in a recent one, though that was an extreme.) It's god tier right now, I've been taking it on Lissandra mid for about 30 games and it's the strongest I've EVER felt on her. An early lead can end a game before 20 minutes right now, so that's what I'd play for.

  3. It is 100% absolutely the most viable option to pick a burst champion. Damage is king in league, but that's not really a recent thing. Picking anything but a burst champion has been kind of stupid since preseason 8. For instance; look at the newly added stat shards which replaced tree bonuses. You can start the game with either a total of 20 ad/20 ap, or a total of 10 armor/magic resist. Damage has just been inflated to such a disgusting degree, legitimately every champion has become a burst champion (with some doing it waaaay better. Again, go dark harvest.) Burst is essentially a rule of league right now that we've kind of had to live with.

  4. This one made me laugh. I haven't had a game of League feel "close" in weeks, maybe a few months. That's simply just League. The only possibility you'll have of getting a close game where one side doesn't crush by 20 minutes is if NEITHER team picks a real ADC. Those are the only games where I've truly felt both sides had a chance, but that's very rare for people to do. (I'm talking like... Swain bot on one team and Rengar bot on the other; where you don't feel like it's a ticking time bomb as to who's carry will hit 1-shot auto attack god mode first.) Don't expect even games in league. You will ALWAYS be dissapointed.

again, if you enjoy dota then stick with it. I personally hate it, and have been searching for literally anything to fill the void I'll have once I finally quit league. If you've found that, I'd recommend staying with it. Good Luck man

Nami Fanboy1 votes

Thanks for the detailed reply! I'm definitely going to try a few other champions like Lux and Zyra with Dark Havest and see how they work out. To be honest Dota is definitely going to stay my main MOBA but I do enjoy coming back to League and seeing what's changed.

It took me a long time, probably over 100 hours before I really "got" Dota. It's a fundamentally different game then League is, but I really enjoy how unique and interesting the characters are, and how diverse the item pool is. There is a ton of strategy that goes into team building and you can just as easily go for an early game stomp team or a late game team that has a few heroes that can delay the game so your cores can get online. I can completely understand why it would be hard to get into though, it took a buddy of mine prodding me along until I finally started loving it's complexity.

The Goodest Boy1 votes

no problem :) If i can make someones life better by steering them clear of league im happy to

I tried dota2 for a bit. the game feels a bit too... stiff for me. the champions dont feel as if they have anywhere near the level of detail or love applied to them as in league, and theyre almost always extremely simple to grasp with a few exceptions. perhaps i just didnt give it the time it needed to register with me. any ideas on how i might get started?

i NEED to get away from league.

Nami Fanboy2 votes

Well first I would determine which role you want to cover. The main roles are offlane, support, mid and carry. Occasionally you might find a jungler but it's fairly uncommon. Then I would pick a single character or two in that role that look cool to you. My favorite supports are Crystal Maiden (Rylai, the Crystal Maiden is where Rylai's crystal scepter gets its name) and Winter Wyvern and they are considered Position 5 supports, or supports that need no gold to function. Position 1 (most gold dependent) is usually the carry or mid laner and goes down to 5 from there.

Carries spend most of the early to mid game farming up items and avoiding the ganks from the enemy supports, by the end game they are the main source of a teams damage. Only a few of the carries are able to do a lot of damage early such as juggernaut, but are usually tanky enough to survive by themselves for the short time the supports are away ganking.

Mid laners are early to mid game powerhouses and are usually more level dependent then gold dependent. The supports are most likely to gank mid since the mid laner that wins is going to generally decide how the mid game goes.

Off Laners are generally tanks or characters that have a way of protecting themselves, they are build to be able to survive against multiple enemies while doing a good amount of damage. The current lane meta is 2-1-2 so the offlaner will likely have a support to help them, but sometimes its 1-1-3 so you could be by yourself. if you can survive and get some levels and gold you can be pretty dominant in the midlane/lategame.

Supports are the early game powerhouses, and will usually have the most impact on which lanes win. They will usually be either ganking or controlling the lane to protect their carry or put the lane in an advantageous state. Unlike League the supports have a lot they need to do, such as stacking camps, pulling waves, ganking, counterganking, and lane control. Supports are mostly squishy so bad positioning can get you killed pretty easily.

Most of the heroes are pretty easy to understand conceptually like you said, but most are very complicated to play in practice because Dota has a lot more hard counters to heroes than League does. It's also very difficult to use some of the abilities correctly since they can sometimes screw over your own team. For instance Winter Wyvern's ult causes all enemies in a radius to attack a targeted enemy hero, but be immune to damage from her own allies. So you could get a great ult and cause all the enemies to kill their own support or you could save all the enemies from a huge ult from one of your allies if it's timed wrong.

One thing I had trouble with early in my Dota career was item knowledge. Most of the powerful heroes such as Phantom Assassin, a crit based carry, have an item that partially counters them. It took me a long time to realize that I could rush Ghost Scepter to prevent myself from being killed by her, Ghost Scepter makes you immune to physical damage for 5 seconds but makes you take 40% more magic damage, so it's a perfect counter to a physical based carry. So if you find yourself thinking that a certain hero is overpowered think about which heroes and items counter what there good at.

XJ999999999999993 votes

Game is trash. I've only played 15-20ish games past year to examine the behavior of people. toxic as hell as usual. all my games were flame fest .0 point playing. keep playing dota 2 and encourage others to.

Śhunpo2 votes

I'm personally sorry for League's shit balancing leaking over into DOTA 2.....

Nausicäa 2 votes

Funny cause League champions used to actually require items to do high burst damage too. Too bad these morons at Riot basically ruined the game with the shitty Mastery/Rune system reworks.

Keystones were a stupid mistake that added huge amount of extra damage to the game.

The Bearded Bard2 votes
  1. Burst anyone gets a powerspike lvl 3, because that's when they get all of their spells. The counterplay to that is to not be in range of him. Soraka is a backline support, she's supposed to be easy to kill if you can get to her. Lucian is a short range adc. What I'm getting at here is that he shouldn't be near enough to kill you.

  2. The reason snowballing seems out of control is a player based issue mostly, teams refuse to group when the enemy assassin is fed. The counterplay to fed assassins is teamwork and grouping.

  3. There are a plethora of items and champions that counter burst, but you've also got to dodge some damage. You can't get hit by a full burst mage combo and expect to live just 'cause ya built one defense item.

  4. Game has been out a long time, people are better at closing games out. Can't always rely on the enemy making a mistake.

SanKakU2 votes

1 - In LoL, you can get way more value out of defensive items as a support, not a carry, than in Dota 2(in Dota 2 as I'm sure you know, carries can be ludicrously difficult to kill due to some of the defensive items they can buy). In LoL, you're expected to be constantly on the front line or at least close enough to it so you can do your job. Often that means being the oppressed champion in bottom lane, unless you're the one oppressing the opponents. In team fights, you can perhaps get away with not being so important to the front line, but you can't count on it with regards to your allies in other lanes. That's why I like to get a head start on being a strong front line because in team fights it will really come in handy. In Dota 2 on the other hand, if you're trying to front line in team fights when you're several levels behind various enemy heroes, that's a recipe for disaster very often.

2 - The jungler is not important for protecting allies. It's your job as a support champion to know when you should leave your lane partner. Many supports have mobility passives or actives to help them bounce from lane to lane, there are also assassins you could play as substitute supports that have mobility. Many players opt for buying Mobility boots and sometimes they pick up the teleport summoner spell to help out. The map is smaller than Dota 2 map, and there are runes sometimes for mobility, right now we have a rune for bonus movement speed in the river which is quite helpful for getting to the other side of the map, and there is also Relentless Hunter which is like the mobility boots. The jungler needs more help than has needed in seasons past due to the various jungle changes. If the support isn't helping the jungler, they are quite possibly throwing the game. Not just that, but rotating to another lane can sometimes result in a first tower taken for your team which is more difficult than was before the latest tower changes.

3 - I think LoL is way more forgiving as a support than Dota 2 for staying alive. LoL has cleanse if you're playing someone like Soraka to guarantee you get your ultimate. Barrier is also always relevant to deal with some of that burst. Exhaust is the perfect support summoner spell as it cuts through enemy offense and makes it relatively difficult for the opponent to escape in just one spell. Income items allow you to maintain your gold gain, as does the lack of bounties being taken out of your income which happens often in Dota 2 as a support, making the support player fall further and further behind the other players.

4 - Can't really comment on this one. I feel like if you know you're doing something wrong, you can improve, that's true in any of these games. RNG teammates quality is also something that can't be ignored in full unless you're actually not playing solo matchmaking.

I think Dota 2 has more grievous balance issues for sure. Compare Talon with Clockwerk as an example. Talon's mobility is consistent and expected. Clockwerk's is unreliable, flamboyant, aggravating, and incredibly toxic if I'm being honest. There are a lot of totally BS heroes in Dota 2. Yes, there are typically answers for the BS, but it's not always easy to get to those answers when your team is being uncooperative. At least in LoL, people can be reasoned with. In Dota 2, you are surrounded by psychopaths. Yeah, there are crazy and sensible players in both games, but I find the Dota 2 community to be a lot more toxic which makes their insane heroes that much more aggravating to deal with, and it also makes hero reputations stickier than champion reputations.

Which brings me to another point. Don't be afraid to screw the meta in LoL. The more you learn about the game, the more the meta expands. In Dota 2, you're a lot more likely to get grieved for messing with the meta than you are in LoL. If you think something seems weak, then don't do it. Try something else. It doesn't matter if you don't see other people doing it. Experimenting is the only way you'll get out of your rut in LoL. There are too many horrible, horrible players in LoL and it gets to the point where the meta actually becomes a huge newb trap unlike the meta in Dota 2. The meta is actually not only more reliable in Dota 2, but it's also not as holy as many meta sheep think it is. Just some food for thought.

I like Dota 2 as a game more than LoL, but I play LoL significantly more in recent years(I barely played it in the past although I played it in beta) because Dota 2 has the vastly inferior community quality.

r41p411 votes

[deleted]

SanKakU1 votes

15 mana from Phantom Assassin deals about 2500 damage(and at a long range I should mention). People exaggerate about getting one shot in League of Legends when really it's a full rotation of abilities being used. But a fed Phantom Assassin barely does anymore than so much as looks at you and you die. I'm not going to give you more examples. The game is very volatile.

You seem to be misreading what I'm typing. Yes, I see dumb stuff like Infinity Edge Bard in LoL. And in LoL, there's a lot more room for ridiculous item purchases. That's entirely the point. In Dota 2, the builds are vastly more flexible than in LoL. And yet, players have very little to no tolerance for deviation from meta builds from their allies. The players that are building meta are the ones that are grieving, not the other way around.

Dota 2 ensures flexibility with its robust stats system, which has only encouraged even more flexibility with relatively recent stats and item reworks. The fact that so many players, honestly the vast majority of them are still grieving games because allies build stuff that's off-meta just goes to show how incredible toxic their community really is. There's was nothing in all of Dota's and Dota 2's history of items even close to as troll as a Manamune Zed(basically should only ever happen in demo mode or versus bots) or even Infinity Edge Bard(obviously not viable, but not completely useless either and clearly trolling/throwing) for Dota 2 heroes. That's just how the stats system works, and how their heroes are designed, when heroes are functional as either support or carry. Meanwhile, in LoL they just reworked Ezreal so that he can no longer trigger Summon Aery defensively, flushing out the last bit of impact he could ever have as a support. Champions are far less flexible than heroes. And the intolerance of Dota 2 players for others thinking outside the box just goes against all logic.

If you really meant that Hero X buying Item Y will not generate a report from that player's allies and that their ally/allies will not in fact intentionally feed half of the heroes or everyone on their team to the enemy in fights, then you're just a liar. It's not me being misinformed when it's happening to me. I'm not reading some random stuff on the internet to come to conclusions about how a community feels, and the fact that you can't tell that I've played Dota 2 means you've done absolutely no research on my time spent online.

And for the record, it's not only hatred towards me in a team. So don't even bother trying to explain away whatever stuff I may or may not buy when it happens to everyone, that includes me of course but also includes allies on the team. It's not uncommon to do my job well and then 1-2 people start making horrible mistakes and all of a sudden a 3rd person begins throwing the game and can't be convinced to stop no matter what because 'Slardar didn't buy Blink Dagger' and guess what? The Slardar can 'apologize by purchasing a Blink Dagger' but it won't help. The player just keeps on doing it. I haven't played that hero in years and you want to know why? That's why. It was a couple months ago or so it happened when I was on the same team as him. I haven't been playing Dota 2 regularly lately and people trolling the ranked games and losing on purpose is exactly why I don't and can't take the game seriously. Not going to pretend that LoL doesn't have a corrupt matchmaking system also, but however severe the corruption, it's far less in my face than Dota 2's matchmaking system is. I can't even stay out of low priority for crying out loud, despite my most recent punishment in LoL coming from when someone that got fired was in charge of their punishment system and I'm always a nice guy in my games. I always have more reports than commends when the Dota 2 report card comes in, but at least I'm still able to get those commends. The fact is that bad people hate good people and in Dota 2, the good people are phenomenally outnumbered.

I've seen streamers again and again lose games by trying to farm Blink Dagger on Lion or whatever champ it can be pretty good on, and you know why they are losing their games buying that item? Because in Dota 2, you lose gold for dying. If he spent his gold on stats items to stay alive and kill instead of saving it and losing it again and again then he'd not only potentially get to Blink Dagger faster, but even prevent the enemy from getting to their desired items faster. The concept of use it or lose it is completely foreign to many Dota 2 players that obviously didn't do well at Starcraft if they've ever played it. They even added a gold lost stat to the end of game scoreboard in recent times and hopefully that will help their community to stop being so toxic but it's going to take some time if it ever does. They need to do something else besides provide better information. They need to...start censoring propaganda. But I don't think they'll ever do that. I think they want the propaganda because it helps pro players stay relevant even when big changes come to the game. The incompetency of the 'guides of the game' is intentional because it allows them to keep average players from organizing functional teams.

Claiming that someone is winning a 1 vs 9 is disrespectful to their teammates. If someone is truly playing a 1 vs 9,(where their 4 allies are losing the game on purpose) they aren't winning. There are no ifs, ands, or buts about it. It doesn't matter which team strategy game they are playing. You're disrespectful in other parts of your post, but that is the biggest point of disrespect and I just realized that I couldn't let that slide at the least.

Death by Glamour1 votes

Lucian is a bit strong as of now but you need to remember his full combo is 3 abilities and atleast 6 auto attacks, that's a lot of damage in dota aswell as in lol, soraka is made of paper since her rework gutted her base defence stats

the rest I cant disagree with

Noor Sakata1 votes

I would rather not , if they do , it would be copying Dota 2 which isn't good for the game's reputation

Nea1041 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nami Fanboy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nOdJgPmZ,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-12-01T12:06:33.531+0000)

  1. Out of the 10 or so games I played, not a single time did the games feel close. Either my team was dominating until we won, or we were getting stomped until we lose (this does happen in Dota on occasion but only maybe 20% of the time, and you at least feel like there is something you can do). In both cases the games had no sense of apprehension or excitement. Are games generally much closer than this and my games were just outliers? or are games generally so one sided right now? My logic used to be "Never surrender, they are going to screw up eventually." but that seems less true now.

I think this is the worst thing about this game, in the end. It's the big sum of all is wrong here.

In low elos is even worse than in high elo, but actually I don't see many close matches watching Master/D1 games. It's something older than S8; probably a flawed matchmaking, worsened by all the absurd changes there have been for months.

Keshaun1 votes
  1. Lucian is either really good or really bad. If Lucian is pick/ban, the champion/game isn't balanced correctly due to his movement and solo kill potential. Right now critical strike carries are pretty bad, so that opens up Lucian as being a viable pick since he doesn't rely on the critical strike items to deal damage. Pair him up with a Braum and they're pretty much unstoppable.

  2. Snowballing has been a problem for a while now (I'd say the whole duration of Season 8) and Riot is attempting to stunt the snowballing by adding a bounty system that can reward up to 1000G if you shutdown the person who's snowballing. On the flip side of things, Riot also reduced respawn timers awhile ago and recently up'd the stats gained from the dragons and shortened the cooldown of Baron/all elemental dragons including Elder so teams who are snowballing can absolutely crush their enemy.

  3. Ever since the new Runes came into effect, burst damage was immediately a problem. The shielding supports were also nerfed (which they needed to) so enchanters are still viable to shield some damage, but aren't broken OP like they used to be. A lot of the S+ champions being played now are also played in pro play (Leblanc / Graves / Aatrox) so Riot likes to keep them viable for "entertainment purposes" since watching league is more important to Riot than the actual players playing the game. They're likely going to be nerfed now since the pro scene is in offseason right now, but new champions will rise and stay busted for a few months and eventually fall over the course of the new season like always.

  4. Games nowadays are all centered around early game pressure, damage, and scuttle control. If your jungler plays with his eyes open and happens to have his team assist him around those early scuttles, he's most likely going to snowball the game in favor of your team. On the flip side, if your team loses those early skirmishes around scuttle or they just get solo killed, you might as well just ff @ 15 unless you can somehow collect the bounty from your enemy after you or your teammates fed him multiple kills to rack it up.

_ - Thoughts from your average Platinum player_

Disembark1 votes

In Dota you usually get CC chained until you die, and in League CC is a lot shorter but damage is higher.

Dope Solo1 votes

In league you get cc'd and you die pretty often. That's in addition to simply getting hopped on, stunned basic attacked, ignited and killed at lvl 3.

Nami Fanboy2 votes

It actually doesn't happen as often as you think it Dota, and usually it only happens when you are severely out of position. As a support, if they actually waste a long stun ult on you in a teamfight you probably win the teamfight since your cores can just stomp them. Your cores will also buy Black King Bar (active item that makes you immune to magic damage and most forms of CC) so only a few ult only stuns can actually hit them. Stuns in Dota aren't actually that big of a deal past early game since there is so many ways to counter them, in League there is no counter.

Plat HardstuckXD1 votes

There's Qss but its nothing compared to BKB. Fuck i wish had a BKB like item.

Malix Farwin1 votes

@OP as far as point 4 goes, they are not outliner, in fact games that dont feel 1 sided are the outlines so point number 4 is completely true.

Morticianjohn1 votes

In my last 11 ranked games the team with the gold lead at 10 minutes snowballed and won easily.

I used to have a fair number of back and forth games where either team could have won but lately the games are all one sided. The last game that was somewhat back and forth (12 games back) I was playing top Mundo and even though my team had a gold lead at 10 the enemy team had pressure and I certainly didn't feel like we were winning.

Listen I'm not a good player and 10 games is not a large sample size. Also these games were weeks ago and I really haven't been playing consistently so likely was costing my team as I am not currently "in practice" and was feeding to a certain degree, however, with that said it does match the stories of many other forumers who have commented on the snowball meta.

L0ve Is Blue1 votes

The highest i have been is gold, but I will try to answer your questions as well as I can. I also play a lot of support and nami is one of my favorite champions!

  1. Is it intended that burst ADCs like Lucian can almost one shot soraka with a combo at level 3 with no items?

Yes. It isn't fun or balanced, but the few ADCs that shine at the moment can easily burst early on. Pure supports like nami and soraka have very few base HP wich makes them vulnerable to begin with, and the ADCs that are popular these days are the one that are spell based like Lucian MissFortune Ezreal. Since infinity edge got pretty much gutted, ADCs that don't rely on crit have a great advantage in the early/mid game compared to other ADCs. Also, items that are not crit based have way more utility to them, so it makes them that much more efficient on carries that can build them. All ADC items just give crit and auto attack based buffs, while items like item 3142 item 3071 item 3153 give way more interesting side effects.

  1. Am I doing something wrong as a support not being able to prevent this snowballing, or is this just the state of the game right now?

The only opportunity you have to roam as a support is if you get kills in your own lane or if your enemies back, so it can be pretty hard to help prevent snowballing if you are not doing well in lane. The answer would be: You can help prevent snowball if you are doing well in lane. Otherwise you pretty much have to stay bot lane and make sure your ADC doesn't get killed.

  1. It is simply more viable to play champions with high burst right now? Such as Brand, Zyra, or Lux, instead of Soraka or Nami?

I'd say pure supports have pretty much always been very safe picks, but they do get challenged hard by supports that deal lots of damage. I think it really depends on the team composition. If you already have an AP midlaner, going AP support might not work as well in teamfights since you will sacrifice utility for magic damage, wich you already have. But on a team with lots of AD and tankiness, going AP support can carry the game. Everyone around you has access to farm and kills, and you get a shitload of assists so you can build almost as if you were a laner too. The enemy doesn't expect you to deal as much damage as you do since you are ''Support'' and they usualy won't build MR since the rest of your team is AD. Plus, Dark harvest is insanely strong and poke supports can abuse it. It feels very strong on Lux (wich I main), because you can proc it easily and if you are bot lane you can get 2 stacks for one if you win a fight.

Also I must say building AP items always felt more impactfull to me, be it on pure supports or AP supports. item 3285 always feels like more of a powerspike than let's say item 3107, that brings nothing but an active. Supports have some nice AP scalings, you can give so much MS with nami and heal for much more if you go AP rather than support. The utility you lack in item actives, you make up for it by having actualy usefull spells. Support items have been kept mediocre stat wise because if they are good, other AP champions can use them too (wich is bad apparently).

  1. Are games generally much closer than this and my games were just outliers? or are games generally so one sided right now?

Personnaly, as long as the enemy team doesn't have an inhibitor, I feel like the game can be turned around. I have seen many games that dragged on only for the team with the lead to end up losing. But yes, the game has been pretty much one sided for a long time. The new pre-season changes are helping a little from what I see, with stronger towers making early dives dangerous. They also don't get destroyed as early, wich gives you a little more time to farm and prepare for the mid-game.

Hope it helped! Ask me if you have any more questions :P

DeracadaVenom1 votes
  1. Yep, damage creep bb
  2. I find this annoying as well, thats why i play Ivern
  3. Also damage creep. Rito decided the more damage the better and teamfights are becoming one shot or be one shot
  4. This only started happening this recent patch. Comebacks are as rare as a shiny Tapu Koko these days.

More from Gameplay