AP Tristana needs a massive adjustment to ratios and scaling.

Clerikill·Aug 2, 2014·5 votes·881 views

Title says it.

Regardless of recent buffs to the late game scaling as a Marksman that Tristana has, her AP ratio's are out of control and create a binary fight scenario that is the worst in the game. There is no fun for 9 other people in the game. NONE. Why is this allowed to exist?

Edit* I understand it isn't a competitive spec, however over 50% of your player base is below gold rating or unranked. This isn't entertainment or fun for anyone but the cheese player playing it. Do 9/10 people have to sacrifice their time for the entertainment of one narcissist?

22 Comments

PiligeAug 3, 20145 votes

Personally I think Tristana just needs more nerfs. Not only is she an early game bully, she is a hyperscaling monster who also happens to be the safest ADC in the late game.

MackleDogeAug 2, 20143 votes

Personally I don't know why you're being downvoted for this. I've thought that AP Tristana was a cheese tactic and lacked any meaningful counterplay for awhile. If it isn't okay for Leblanc to 100 - 0 someone without the opponent getting a chance to react or counter in a relevant manner then there is absolutely no reason Tristana should be able to. If Lee could instant 1 shot someone from full health with just his Q > Q > R combo then people would be crying left and right, it isn't any different with AP Tristana, she jumps in, mashes her keyboard, and jumps out for free. At least Fizz has to put himself at risk and hit his ultimate skillshot.

Angry MonsterAug 3, 20141 votes

The difference was that LB does it from a very safe distance and silenced someone. Lb didnot blow someone up in under a second. She used to jump 2x silence and you stood there for 2 sec unable to do anything. a

Trist on the other hand is a little easier to stay safe against. While she does jump at you its not from 2 screens away. The lack of lock down also is a key here. Also all teh damamge is stacked in almost (minus jump travel time) one second so the lack of reaction is the players fault instead of being locked lock out of their spells.

So they are very different beasts and comparing as the same is wrong. Is AP trist health for the game? That is beyond me. I personally feel that it no worse than fiz or zed. could it be over tuned late game? Sure, but i am not an expert on that

I think that all off builds should be removed form the game though. To much confusion on this shit and people are always trying to break the game with them.

MackleDogeAug 3, 20143 votes

We're going to have to agree to disagree on the idea that AP Tristana has to take sufficient risk to blow someone up. And I don't see how having all the spell casts stacked in a second-ish is at all my fault. Even if I have great reaction time, not every champion has a good enough escape to get away from Tristana's jump (especially in lane) and my flash certainly has a longer cool down than her burst cycle.

As far as off builds, I'm not a particularly big fan of them, they always strike me as a strange mentality. "This champion is designed this way but I'm going to play it completely different on purpose because I'm special" sort of vibe. Obviously my own personal opinion.

Angry MonsterAug 3, 20141 votes

I agree to disagree. I wish there was a good reason for off builds though. Or riot had posted some kind of logic on it.

I hate that some people feel entitled to off builds like they are a must have in game. They just seem to have muddy the clarity of the game.

MackleDogeAug 3, 20141 votes

I can agree that it really makes things confusing at times, especially when you see people like Voyboy do AD Trist mid, so you don't know which your teammate is doing. And then having a player who is new to the game get thrown into a situation where they are expected to know about the various off builds and how to play against them as opposed to the standard way the champion is played? Just a recipe for disaster. I know Riot has said that they don't want to completely remove off builds, but they want to allow players to do those builds in a way that doesn't injure the integrity of the champion and the play experience, which is my main issue with AP Tristana, because I feel it does both of those things.

But either way, glad to hear your side of things, I always appreciate your input and perspective.

MialeeAug 2, 20142 votes

i think AP trist should continue to exist i think having more variety is better

Angry MonsterAug 3, 20141 votes

I do not get this variety thing. can you expand on this? IF you want an AP champ there are over 25 other champs to choose. Why does a off build champ matter when you have that many other champs to play? I would also argue that fiz can have almost the exact same game play patteren as an AP trist.

MialeeAug 3, 20142 votes

Imo Fizz and Trist are very different, trist does not have "untargetabilty" that in my opinion defines Fizz. If anything she resembles more of khazix you jump in you cast everything u hope to get the kill and get the reset on jump otherwise you die :P . My point is similar to what you say, there are 25 champs then you add trist you have 26! and 26>25 :D the more the merrier !!

Angry MonsterAug 3, 20141 votes

still not hitting on why more is necessarily better. Like I need a real reason to agree. The fact that other champs that can do the same thing makes trist taking stealing spot light. For most champs they get 1 pattern and done. The fact she can do fiz, kzh, ect job as a mid laner is messing with the pic pool. More in this cause means 2x the role pick not sharing the lime light. Only 5 to a team and with 120 champs why do we need champs in 2 spaces.

MialeeAug 3, 20141 votes

well if a country has poor and rich people some might claim it is unfair right?

so there are two solutions nerf the rich people to the ground so all are equally poor ! or buff the poor people so all are equally rich !

the fact a champ can do an off build should not be alarming people can go off the meta by doing something you do not see every game I do not say that every champion should be able to go AP, AD, tank, and jungle but if a champion can do more than one of them at the same time right now we should not remove that capability

I played 790 ranked games this season and I saw taric played only once while caitlyn, lucian, thresh ~400 times each lol I also saw ap trist once during these games. I think it is positive to see something different every now and then. Even if Ap trist is OP you encounter her in like once every thousand games and then she might have a good or a bad game it happens... you simply forget it and go on for another thousand games till you find one again

Angry MonsterAug 3, 20143 votes

I am not talking about fair and do not care about fair. (Plus life is not fair.)

I am talking about limited kits and the fact that trist is sharing a side role with others and it is their only propose in league. A champ with out a niche is pointless in this game. Some niche are greater than others and i am fine with that.

But if trist is great at ADC and Assassin and her Assassin kit is almost the same as 2 other champs. Why would you bother trying to learn the other champs when the kit is already 2nd nature to you? You can skip and ignore these 2 others. They may be better but you already know one and for most players that is good enough. i find this an issue.

Luicain was broken and skipping this guy, the amount of games he was played in should of had riot acting faster. Honestly thresh is OP also and finally is getting recognized by riot. I swear they have blinders on for numbers some times.( they say numbers do not matter then 1 month later NUMBERS MATTER!!!!!!!)

So Caitlin was seen a lot cause she was the safe pick. She is not steeping on other champs niches. She was the safe play against Lucain's OPness. People felt that risk rewards was not great enough to take other ADC champs(most of the time). Notice that since the Lucian changes she is no longer a valued pick. Her precived value has gone down since safty is not as valuable as before. IE Lucian distorted the whole damn bot lane meta and then add bruam on top of him.

So i think using these champs as examples does not make sense considering the issues behind them.

Angry MonsterAug 2, 20141 votes

She is no different than fiz in that build. She blows people up and then is pretty much worthless afterwards.

You may not like it but it is semi viable.

Phoenix Kotori Aug 2, 20143 votes

Fizz has some skillshots at least and doesnt have such cheese harass in lane.

Angry MonsterAug 3, 20142 votes

some? try one and that one is pretty forgiving. Also can be thrown half a screen away. If fiz has a dfg most champs are dead once the ult lands.

SnowFallAug 2, 20141 votes

she already got nerfed because of her ad personality

WorgslargAug 3, 20141 votes

How do you propose keeping AP trist alive and viable if you massivly nerf all her damage?

While ap trist has a very bully laning phase for her lategame power, it is an offspec that should not be nerfed into oblivion

MackleDogeAug 3, 20143 votes

You can balance a champion's damage so that it is functional while not being oppressive. Am I supposed to believe that Trist should be able to 100-0 me, with point and click skills, with 0 chance for me to react or fight back, and then have Trist just jump out to safety is healthy? I don't want AP Tristana nerfed to the point it can't be played. I want it balanced so that there are meaningful opportunities to actually play against it and react. I don't think that is unreasonable to ask, especially considering Riot has adjusted assassins and assassin play styles in the past to ensure that such an environment exists in the game.

WorgslargAug 3, 20141 votes

It's not unreasonable at all, I was simply asking if people had ideas other than " nerf it"

MackleDogeAug 3, 20143 votes

I'm not overly good at kit design, so I don't have much, but I think changing at least one of the relevant skills to a skillshot (similar to the changes to Kog'maw a while back) would be a start. It doesn't make sense to have so much power in button mash point in click skills, especially when they have such a long range and such high power.

Personally though, I'm not opposed to nerfing things, just in general. People always talk about how nerfs are always bad things, but I think thats just flat out wrong. You can't always increase something else's power to match one thing or you end up with a whole lot of power creep and that will just absolutely destroy a PvP game in a matter of weeks. Like I said, I don't want it nerfed to the point it can't be played, I just want it to actually require playing as opposed to AFK farming champions every round of cooldowns.

WorgslargAug 3, 20141 votes

I think that changing her ult's targeting to work like vayne's condemn would not harm AD trist, and would help with ap trist, but prob not enough.

And if she cannot be balanced mainly by scalings, then ap trist should die before harming AD trist.

Phoenix Kotori Aug 3, 20142 votes

I don't give a dam about gimmicky off builds, if it's something as unhealthy game/play patterns as AP tristana, she revolves around harassing people out of lane with non-skillshot dot poke and 100-0% with her massively stupidly high AP ratio on the also non-skillshot ult.

It's either 1 shoting you, or becomes unless because of item 3102 it's not a fun or interactive experience for the opponent either way and offers minimal counterplay, it deserves to be removed from the game frankly.