Boards›Gameplay

Suggested Malzahar addition that may push him top tier.

RYUhaduKEN··4 votes·1,507 views

I have been playing Malzahar as my main since season 1. I love his kit and feel he is an incredibly strong champion when played correctly. However, from what I understand reading posts from Riot and other community members, his lack of mobility is what keeps him from being a force in solo queue and high level play.

I have heard murmurs of his kit being reworked, (which may be entirely false) but I have one suggestion which may fix a small portion of his mobility issues, and add a whole lot more fun to the champion in general.

I feel adding a secondary 'flash ability' to his ult would suit him well. It would be something like, 'Within 5 seconds of casting Nether Grasp, have the ability to teleport a short distance (flash)'

In essence, adding a potential additional flash to any champion may turn them into an overpowered monster, however the key would be that it would be only allowed after casting Malzahar's ultimate. If a team fight turns for the worst and you realize the team is going to jump on you after your ult, a quick flash away may win a team fight for you based on poor opposing team's positioning. After a kill with Malzahar ult an additional flash may help him chase to place that final Malefic Vision on an opposing team fleeing away. Finding yourself ganked with only your ult, may give you the escape you need over that wall and give Malzahar that small amount of mobility needed to make him viable on high end play.

Overall I feel this change would fit in perfectly with Malzahar as a whole. He truly plays like his champion intends, where holding his ult is a way of playing with his opponents minds. An added flash may make a champion think twice before diving in for him in a fight. Another added way of playing psychological mind games with an opposing team. It adds a dimension to his kit where you have a chance to outplay divers but keeps his core kit in tact.

Adding a small flash can also make for some fun lore-play with other champions like Kassadin, and future champions who may derive powers from the void, where some type of flash is consistent with their themes.

Anyway, I don't know if the idea has been brought up before but would love to hear people's ideas and what they think. Thanks for reading if you have! And when's my next Malzahar skin coming? :)

26 Comments

Worgslarg7 votes

I feel that this would simply make him op, and it doesnt mesh with the rest of his kit, i would sugguest that his ult now auto applies his space aids.

No longer need to mash buttons in the hopes of landing a full combo, when the enemy is alerted simply by null zone.

Blueharlequin4 votes

As a Malzahar lover I like this but even that feels a little strong. After all the DoT damage from E and his ult is a bit too much. What I would say is the option to cast his E while ulting, similar to the ability to cast ignite while ulting.

I like this better because E's cast rang is shorter than the ults so you have to ask yourself, do I ult form max range and be safe or do I get closer so that I can Ult, E, Ignite and secure a kill. It gives him the chance to get kills but still provides counter play.

Worgslarg2 votes

This actually makes more sense. It shouldn't apply to his w/q though.

Blueharlequin1 votes

I agree. The W is usually the beginning of the combo and the Q's never been a part of the combo.

Worgslarg1 votes

Well, if you can land DFG> E>R>Ignite, they will usually die. If you can W>DFG>E>R>Ignite, they will die. but w's a big warning, and it's a form of counterplay.( by knowing he plans to ult)

Blueharlequin1 votes

And that in itself is something I don't like on Malzahar. I understand the strength of the DFG on him however it feels wrong. DFG imo is for burst mages and that has never been Malzahar's thing. He's all about damage over time and slow burning ticks. That's what most of his abilities do after all.

I understand the reasoning behind a DFG, the damage increase is amazing on him, but it all but forces him to get too out position for a combo that has far too much warning at that point. As has been said, Null Zone alone is enough to incite a panic, let alone a Null Zone followed by a DFG missile.

Worgslarg2 votes

I personally hate dfg, because I am terrible at managing active's in a combo. It's just too good on malz to ingore though.

Blueharlequin2 votes

I have the same issue which makes playing LeBlanc hard for me >__<

On Malz I usually run a Rylai's, Liandry's, Void Staff, Sorc Shoes build. With that combo you have so much pen and burn damage that a single E can get a squishy to about half health. Landing a good Q in a team fight is even more devastating.

RYUhaduKEN1 votes

I usually don't run DFG. You are right, with Liandry's and Void Staff I always have enough to get someone from 100 to 0. The DFG is almost overkill, but it does get the job done faster. In and out of fights quicker.

I feel his Q is insanely important. I always find if I miss my Q is determines the course of entire fights. Over time have gotten so much better landing it at the right times.

Blueharlequin2 votes

Q is one of his best tools but it's a hard to describe tool. The AoE silence and huge amount of damage is fantastic but it's mana cost make it not something you just toss out for harass or wave clear early levels.

Even at later levels you may want to sit on it until you catch someone with it. But when it hit, it hits like a truck and the silence is underrated. Sometimes during the burst of damage I forget that they're also silenced and I can capitalize on that.

j j3 votes

Malz main here. He's fine leave him alone. Don't buff him thanks.

Phoneixflare3 votes

You get a flash! YOU GET A FLASH EVERYBODY GETS A FLASH! :D

Eggnivia Bot2 votes

Nobody wants Malzahar to be top tier, though.

RYUhaduKEN1 votes

I like both your guys ideas. They are both amazing ideas that would help him a lot. But they don't address his mobility issues that everyone complains about. It has been his mobility that everyone says keeps him from being top tier. On a competitive level, that added ability to move around a fight is huge. At lower levels it adds a flash at the expense of your ult. Maybe attach a high mana cost to the flash as well to try to balance it, where you don't have to use it if it's not necessary.

You guys are both right in that the flash would be incredibly strong, especially if you ult flash forward, cast spells and Zhonya, but I would rather take this and a hit to his damage / HP pool, than have his entire kit reworked.

I have had a hard time trying to think of finding a way to fix mobility, while keeping his kit in tact, and still possibly fitting in with lore of the champion. Flash may not fit his kit, but it would fit with lore in terms of powers from void. I do think it can be worked out to somehow balance out.

Maybe even change it so that if the flash is activated so you automatically flash backwards only, giving some counter play.

cshakes3 votes

Alternative solution: get rid of the mobility meta. I'd much prefer that.

Worgslarg2 votes

I agree that mobility is a bit too high, but outright destroying high mobility champs would be a far worse problem for the game.

Worgslarg2 votes

For me, the issues keeping him from top tier come from qss negating his ult, leaving him with only aoe damage. His theme isn't a super mobile mage like lissandra, it's a assassin-mage, with very, very high aoe damage.

If qss could no longer negate his ult he would be op, but unless you are ulting all the time, most players will forego the QSS in favor of other items.

Imo, the suppression and damage portions of his ult should be seperate. so you could cleanse the suppress, but the damage would continue until you left the range of his ult. This, plus allowing him to cast his e while ulting, should be enough to bring him back.

I'm actually loving the slightly changed rylais on him, more ap and a bit less hp, makes it more attractive given malzahars great ap scalings.

RYUhaduKEN1 votes

So let's say, someone QSS'ed your ult, and you had that added ability on his ult to flash away to at least save yourself. I feel like it would make Malz much more playable, while still retaining the strength of the QSS. Possibly at the high cost of mana just to get yourself away. If you don't have enough mana for an escape flash you could still do your regular combos

Wheatloaf2 votes

The damage and the suppress on his ultimate are separate already, actually, at least I believe so... if not, they really should at least fix the fact that the tether remains even after QSS.

I'm of the camp that sees Malzahar as an extremely strong reactive mage, rather than proactive, due to the fact that he's much better at punishing even the tiniest misstep in an opponent's play, rather than making his own, and as such I usually take the magic pen/slow burn build because it is effective almost no matter who's trying to dive me.

There was an argument above about Malzahar's Q not really being considered part of his combo, which I'll address down here rather than making two comments of it: In my experience, Malz's Q is the lead-in to his combo. People usually see you drop Null Zone and immediately disengage. However, if you lead with the ridiculous silence duration of Call of the Void (1.4 seconds at rank 1, 3 seconds at max rank), the only option you leave your opponent with is relying on their movespeed to get them away in time, but since Malzahar is in the 340 base movespeed camp, extremely high for mages, most of the time they can't. Once you pick up a rylai's, which has always been a good item on him, but is even better now, it's even less likely they'll be able to escape their fate.

Also, on the topic of DFG on Malzahar... frankly, mages like him, Veigar, and Syndra generally don't have much trouble bursting pretty much anyone they want without it, so I never understood why people seem to make it a core item. Malzahar specifically, with his absurd base damage, ratios, and % max hp chunking, doesn't really have trouble without it.

RYUhaduKEN1 votes

I totally agree with what you are saying. The DFG choice on Malz, the lead in with Q, and the reactive mage aspects. There are always exceptions, such as if your team has no initiate its harder to be reactive, most of the time I find it falls on me to initiate with team compositions like that. Q is not necessary to lead in on squishier champs like ADC's also, but landing the Q makes it that much easier to run your combo.

I'm not sure about the suppress cleanse and damage anymore... now that I think about it I thought the damage may still go through.

Saying that, I'd really like to hear your opinion about the suggested addition to his ult. Really like hearing everyone's opinion :)

Wheatloaf2 votes

To put it simply, and I don't mean to be rude, but Malzahar absolutely cannot have mobility in his current state. He does too much damage and too much range for immobility to not be his weakness.

His Ult is designed to be a point of extreme vulnerability for both him and his target; giving him a "Get out of Jail Free" card on it removes most of the risk of using it. Risk management is one of the biggest points of mastery for Malzahar players, and one that carries over to many other fun high-risk, high-reward champions.

If Riot were to buff Malzahar, it'd have to be with his reliability, giving him a couple of tools he needs to land quick/sneaky combos over walls and stuff. One of my ideas on this is to have either his Ult, Space AIDS, or both, grant vision for their duration, because losing your target when they walk into a brush/your Q vision times out is pretty annoying.

There's always the worry that he might become too reliable, but it's an idea.

RYUhaduKEN1 votes

It's not rude. :) I agree with a lot of what you say and I like your opinion. I do think his high damage should come with a weakness of mobility. If they start nerfing damage to attribute for a mobility type ability added, it would defeat the purpose of his kit and taking out single targets.

All I'm afraid of is him losing his kit due to a rework caused by him not fitting a meta. Threw out an idea and it's great to see what people have to say. lol

Wheatloaf2 votes

They haven't reworked a champion due to only not fitting the meta as of yet (They don't even release champions specifically to fit into the meta cough Velkoz cough), so I don't think we have to be concerned there.

What we do have to worry about is, back when Riot was being more vocal about the Warwick rework, they expressed some interest in removing suppression as a mechanic, and finding some other way to fix the problems that it currently solves. I don't think this is anywhere in the near future, of course, because it didn't sound like they had any good concrete ideas, it was just something they wanted to do eventually.

That said, when the time finally rolls around, I have complete faith in Riot to keep Malzahar as the center of a 900-range circle in which you do not wish to step.

And, finally, it's good to see people bouncing some ideas off the community, and keeping everything civil in the process. Especially concerning these champions that are almost never seen or heard of, it'll always make me a little happier to find someone drumming up genuine concern for our forgotten friends! It's a pleasure discussing things with someone who knows and cares about the topic at hand.

RYUhaduKEN1 votes

In the end, I feel that since Malz does not have a stun or slow, adding a flash after casting of his ult would not be game breaking for him. If he flashes forward he puts himself at risk because at that point essentially, he is still his same immobile champ. If the mana cost of a flash is high, it would prevent him from flashing forward and use it more as an escape ability if his life is in jeopardy, and take him out of fights unfortunately.

On top of everything else, if I can also hold off someone chasing a teammate with low HP with my ult, watch them get away and flash away myself, I just feel it adds so much positive rather than negative.

Sirbigam1 votes

Lol yu crazy Malz is already OP, I main him thats like cheating. item 3165

#2 Malz Master Rank in NA and Europe

H2OWNED1 votes

I think adding a fear to when Call of the Void hits a champion with Malefic Visions it procs a fear but removes Malefic Visions from them, but still gives mana back. This allows for more Meaningful choices to be made for Malz, and also giving Malz the extra Utility to early game. Also gives additional utility and more in-depth game play that Malz is famous for.

This idea was inspired by Stacona on the discussion here http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/FUd8gF8J-malzahar-minour-gameplay-update-idea

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes