24 Comments

Jeddite7 votes

Removing the Targons items is a huge buff to poke teams. (Which ARAM doesnt need.)

Non-sh!tters understand how building Targons on melee champions keeps the poke team from out-pushing the melee team.

cocacolalips2 votes

Jeddite is a hottie. Facts.

Sincarnation7 votes

RIP item 3122 and item 3185 I LOVED these items regardless of if the enemy team had stealth. Cheap crit, AD, anti-brush juke active, and a sick DoT passive I'm actually kinda bummed they are removing them

Puddytat6 votes

NOOO not the Lightbringer! That's what separates the proper adc's from the ones who feed Teemo :( And the Orb is one of my favourite items on tanks, why? What has it ever done to you?

Blue Moon Wolf2 votes

Apparently they are changing item 2047 so it's effects stays after death (I'm guessing cause ADC's hardly ever bought item 3185 and this way anyone can have vision), but they are replacing Orb of winter with this:

http://i1042.photobucket.com/albums/b430/bluemoonwolf8/Guardian%20orb_zpszva0eype.jpg

I don't even even get what the point of this is, they are taking a tank item made to protect against poking and changing it into an AP. I'm hoping that they will be adding something later that does about the same thing, but I don't think our chances are that good :(

cocacolalips10 votes

Whoever made the changes just doesn't play ARAM, none of the items introduced this patch will ever be bought, the AP and AD ones for this price range already have better starting alternatives that don't set you back on your build, and the defensive item while okay won't be bought either because melee champions don't have the gold and can't afford such oddball items and delay their core items even more. People rarely bought the dorans items to begin with and when they did, it was because it was cheap, cost efficient, and paired well with another 900-ish gold starting item.

Then you have the change to Oracle that is all around really questionable, all the invisible champions are already borderline terrible on this map, they are terrible because they are melee and melee champions suck, they are terrible because snowball exists and snowball reveals invisible champions (and the snowball cooldown goes down by 40% next patch), and they are terrible because anyone with a brain was already buying oracle. What does the new oracle accomplish? It makes those champions even worse, while making Teemo who is already in the top 10 even stronger. ???

Puddytat4 votes

This is just sad. Both of those items have amazing niche use and it's nice to have mode-specific versatility.

Blue Moon Wolf3 votes

True. Even if I see a potential benefit to the vision change/ item 3185 removal , it still sucks that they are getting rid of it, making the only option for vision item 2047 , which you have to spend an extra 250g on. As for item 3112, at the very least they could have made it a weaker tank item and have it build into a stronger version like they did with item 3751 and item 3068. But they made it into one of the crappy starter items that you will have to sell later. It's like they somehow forgot pokes are still a huge problem in ARAM.

Sirsir4 votes

So they are removing all of the good, unique items but leaving BT in? Why...

Blue Moon Wolf1 votes

Don't have any clue. Technically they just changed item 3184, item 2051 and item 3112 into starting items for AD, Tank and AP champs respectively (minus the stats and passives), but for 950, I'd expect them to at least have some kind of passive that would make them useful throughout mid game or build into something better, not just be more expensive doran's items that I will have to sell before mid game.

Not to mention that poking was an issue that item 3112 was supposed to tone back and without it we are practically back to spending the whole game dodging skill shots if you are a tank.

Oleandervine3 votes

No! Orb of Winter needs to stay!

cocacolalips1 votes

I don't think I've ever seen anyone buy this item in the past 500 aram games I've played. It's pretty bad all around. Magic penetration is still really strong as it is based on your total magic resistance and not your additional magic resistance, unlike armor penetration, which makes magic resistance pretty terrible without the health pool to back it up, and orb of winter gives you effectively no health. Add the truck load of physical damage and true damage champions do nowadays, and the fact that ARAM games are decided on teamfights, and you can see why a defensive item without health doesn't cut it.

Blue Moon Wolf1 votes

I always buy item 3112 if I see an AP heavy enemy team or if we are getting poked to death. Hell if I have Malphite I buy it just cause it complements his passive. If the fact it doesn't give health is the problem then it's as simple as give it health and reduce MR. That passive is far too useful against champs with poke to get rid of it all together. Removing it just puts us back as square one when it comes to melee vs poke champs in aram.

cocacolalips2 votes

I think it's okay as a last item or something if the enemy team only deals magical damage, but I would never buy it in its current state as a first item before Spirit Visage/Aegis/Targon/Banshee Veil for the reasons I gave above.

Targon especially gives you more sustain, more gold, its first stat is health, it builds into something useful, and is cheap as hell. Aegis is the extension of that and helps your entire team, Spirit Visage is all around really useful, and the healling buff helps with targon and self heals. Banshee is the extension of Spirit Visage with some additional health and magic resistance.

Puddytat1 votes

Warmog's is a must-buy in ARAM, so you're getting health in that anyway. If you want both (MR and health) in a single item, Spirit Visage and Banshee's Veil are at your service - or situationally, Aegis. There's another MR-without-health item, Abyssal Sceptre, which is nice if your team does magic damage or if you want to add some damage in an off-tank build with Amumu, Sejuani, Zac... However, if you're aiming for "unkillable" versus a high-magic team, the Orb of Winter is invaluable. Low cost, high MR, good component, nice passive. I can't remember a Nautilus game where I didn't buy it (because of the amazing synergy with his W). Basically removing the Orb indirectly buffs all those mages that are already OP in ARAM.

DemainaNyx3 votes

There goes me build coin on Amumu and silently waiting in the wings till I can get a good stun. Or building spellthief on an ADC so I can let my melee members take the minion gold while I poke.

How am I going to counter Teemo now without a sweeper/lightbringer...

Jeddite3 votes

item 3112 and item 2051 aren't terrible items, but they're not particularly slot-efficient (and the Horn is a serious noob-trap as it's almost never a good idea for the tank/bruiser to charge into the enemy team before level 6, so buying it at the start of the match is usually a suboptimal choice). And by the time a player builds the Orb, the pre-6 "poke phase" is usually over. Orb certainly isn't without use, but a player can usually afford a Spirit Visage or Banshee Veil, which are arguably better options (strictly in terms of slot-efficieny).

Perhaps a better solution would be to have the Orb and Horn build into a "legendary-tier" item. Nerf/Adjust Orb to make it something that can be purchased for 900-1200G, so tanks/bruisers can pick it up at the start of the game if desired. The Orb can then be sold mid-game once the pre-6 poke-fest is over, or it can be combined with Horn so that tanks/bruisers with no gap-closers (Singed, Volibear, Rammus, Garen, Mundo ...) can make use of the movement-speed increase to initiate a fight.

DorkunedAuras1 votes

The main purpose for the orb is when you're a full tank against a 100% magic damage comp, and you already have item 3065 item 3102, for more MR stacking.

Jeddite1 votes

{quoted}

The main purpose for the orb is when you're a full tank against a 100% magic damage comp, and you already have item 3065 item 3102, for more MR stacking.

Well... duh. But as you just said, the Orb is purchased when (A) playing a tank; (B) playing against a 100% AP team; and (C) you already built a Spirit Visage and Banshee Veil. So you're reinforcing a point already made: that the Orb doesn't really fulfill it's original intended purpose (e.g. early game defense against a poke team), and by the time a player builds an Orb, its usefulness is superseded by other MR items.

So, Rito James™ might have a case for removing Orb entirely, but I'll maintain my stance that nerfing/adjusting/balancing Orb so that it can be purchased at the start of the match, and combining Orb and Horn into a third item is a better option that removing both.

Jeddite1 votes

{quoted}

Well... duh. But as you just said, the Orb is purchased when (A) playing a tank; (B) playing against a 100% AP team; and (C) you already built a Spirit Visage and Banshee Veil. So you're reinforcing a point already made: that the Orb doesn't really fulfill it's original intended purpose (e.g. early game defense against a poke team), and by the time a player builds an Orb, its usefulness is superseded by other MR items.

So, Rito James™ might have a case for removing Orb entirely, but I'll maintain my stance that nerfing/adjusting/balancing Orb so that it can be purchased at the start of the match, and combining Orb and Horn into a third item is a better option that removing both.

Here's a game I played shortly after posting this comment. It fulfills Criterion-A and Criterion-B mentioned above.

http://imgur.com/1HHjEtK

I wasn't going to _**not **_build Orb of Winter just to prove a point, but it wouldn't have a slot with my build on Braum. When the game ended, my intention was to build the Negatron Cloak into a Banshee Veil, and then finish off with a Sunfire Cape. I don't consider Banner of Command an ideal item on Braum (since Braum doesn't get much out of AP); but I decided the Banner Minion was more useful for my team than a Spirit Visage (since my team was having a hard time breaking the enemy's nexus turrets). A Sunfire Cape wasn't really necessary, but I would have built a Warmog's or a Wit's End before using my sixth slot for an Orb of Winter.

LatetotheRace3 votes

They didn't have the resources for item 3112

Irelia Bot2 votes

Darn it that Horn was awesome :(

ReZisT Lust2 votes

man now teemos and shacos gonna be annoying in bushes without my bow

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