Boards›Gameplay

Please don't go through with these Janna changes

Chloe2005··46 votes·15,754 views

https://i.gyazo.com/ddd22943be895d6bdc42b0c0040440ef.png

As a Janna player it seems like Riot is trying to bring back E max Janna but make her more interactive. These changes don't fix these problems because of multiple things.

  1. When someone is diving into the backline, Janna just doesn't prep a shield on them. That doesn't work because the shield dissipates. Janna players usually stop the engage with Q, then they W or E. The play style that the changes are enforcing are kind of first shielding the target, then letting people engage on them and using Q and W to get them off, and then using E again. This will probably lower her skillcap because you don't need to stop targets with Q anymore. There's less of an incentive to start the disengage combo with Q than how it currently is.

  2. These changes severely hurt W max Janna which most Janna players are happy with. W max Janna is a fun playstyle that makes her interactive. You can get poked out by walking too close for a W and people can engage on you. She isn't a shield bot with W max. Also W max mid with full ap is just a fun playstyle that Janna players like to play when support gets boring and this is kind of killing that off.

74 Comments

Bob the Toastr44 votes

Lol calling a point and click spammable ability with good damage interactive.

Lol

RebeccaUCuber5 votes

It is, cos her short range has Cons, if u punish her she cant do anything in lane. How about her E? It's more interactive then?

Sir Saltarin14 votes

They are trying to buff her E in a way that you can use it more times when you hit enemies with your other skills.

The direction is indeed a more interesting playstyle than Comet W braindead poke.

Maybe the changes are not good, but the direction is.

D357R0Y3R8 votes

except it isn't braindead

it is only braindead if the enemies have no brain Using W on janna exposes her to being damaged, and slows herself because she loses the bonus ms

making her losing damage from autoattacks AND susceptible to get hit by skillshots

it also draws minion agro

Anu3isII2 votes

The very same arguments applied to Sona, yet Riot always nerfs her poke when it gets decent. People simply don't like reliable poke, even when they could jump on the character.

However, Janna does have some issues that make her harder to punish. Her bonus MS allows her to easily engage the opponent when they are vulnerable (most of the times when they try to farm) and her W also applies a significant slow, giving her an easy time to disengage from her target (the other lane opponent may punish her tho). It also makes landing Arcane Comet almost guaranteed, pushing her Poke further.

FilDaFunk1 votes

Except it's the reverse of how you currently play janna. You shield if you weren't able to disengage.

HookedOnAFeelin2 votes

Agreed. The ability is pretty cheap as is. Sure, she has a "short" range, but it doesn't really seem to cost all that much and the cooldown is pretty alright as well. If you're playing a melee or short range support it's not a very fun and interactive ability to be facing. It will deal a fourth or fifth of your HP (with aery) early on and slow you enough for you to just have to take the punishment without trading back. Ranged supports stand a better chance, but even then, that W will almost always be the ability dealing the most damage (early on) between both champions, with or without Janna shielding herself in the trade.

Note: Not hating on Janna, she's more then alright as is.

D357R0Y3R20 votes

Upvoted to fucking oblivion

Riot wants enchanters to be boring as hell

It's the soraka changes over and over again, but this time they will tell us "we want janna to win lane by shielding instead of dealing damage!!"

boricCentaur19 votes

No riot wants enchanters to be enchanters not mages winning lane though damage or poke is a mage thing not a enchanter thing a enchanter gives buffs and peel to win the lane.

D357R0Y3R15 votes

enchanters dealing damage doesn't make them mages

poke is a mage thing

Tell Morgana to fuck off and stop being a mage then Tell that to Lux support with aftershock Tell that to Zilean Bard who can both poke and peel for their adc

a enchanter gives buffs and peel to win the lane.

Janna doesn't have buffs, the only buff she has is a small AD boost for at best 1 sec since it gets removed after the shield is broken You can't win lane with Janna by boosting

pre 7.19 Janna used to not win lane, AND NOT LOSE LANE EITHER by constantly shielding 24/7

it was boring af

boricCentaur16 votes

Ummm none of the champions you listed are enchanters. Why are you arguing if you don't know what champions are? Here is a list https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/taking-another-look-subclasses It's a bit out of date due to reverts but most champions still do the same things now as when this list came out.

Like ITS IN THE FUCKING NAME enchanters they enchant not do damage again that is a mage thing give me one enchanter that is supposed to do damage? The only thing they share is cc.

Also it doesn't matter if you find it boring since janna is supposed to do that since it's her role in the game and just because you find it boring doesn't mean others don't.

Anu3isII6 votes

Dude, just looking at list they provided you would see Enchanters who focus mostly on poking the opponents out of lane over protecting their allies.

Karma Sona always max their poke, Soraka slowly switches back to max Q builds, all of Nami 's abilities deal damage one way or another and she has always been more of an aggressive support (she always tries to make trades with her W). Only Lulu and Taric really don't focus that much on poke out of all the Enchanters mentioned.

And let's be real, based on their history, Riot avoids creating passive play styles and always try to make champions more interactive (aka giving them potential aggressive elements in their kit).

In Janna's previous major change, it was clear that they wanted to nerf or even remove her Passive play style and encourage her to be more aggressive. Now, from what it seems, they may target a middle ground between both play styles.

D357R0Y3R4 votes

Taric doesn't focus on poke because he's a melee champion

lulu not focusing on poke

sorry?

Anu3isII1 votes

Ever since her Q buff (where they made her slow be the same at all stages of the game), Lulu has been maxing E first and Q last. Unless you go for a really short trade, it will most of the times be better to cast E on an ally or herself.

I don't say she can't poke, I'm saying that she switched her play style a bit. In a way she became more of an Enchanter like old Janna.

CheckYourFax1 votes

{quoted}

enchanters dealing damage doesn't make them mages

Tell Morgana to fuck off and stop being a mage then Tell that to Lux support with aftershock Tell that to Zilean Bard who can both poke and peel for their adc

Janna doesn't have buffs, the only buff she has is a small AD boost for at best 1 sec since it gets removed after the shield is broken You can't win lane with Janna by boosting

pre 7.19 Janna used to not win lane, AND NOT LOSE LANE EITHER by constantly shielding 24/7

it was boring af

Old Janna was to "I know my ADC will lose lane, but use her so that disadvantage is negated" and you can now play jinx while keeping the lane in check

RebeccaUCuber5 votes

This vision of enchanters is so hilarious lol. It's like you want every enchanter to be a shield bot.

Spicy Rice3 votes

At the very least, they shouldn't be pseudo poke mages that also have great disengage and buffing capabilities

Anu3isII3 votes

They are pseudo poke mages only in the very first levels of the game. Afterwards, based on their buildpath, they may give up on their poke for actual utility or give up utility for maintaining a mediocre amount of damage.

Karma is the best example of this trend. She always starts as a poke machine and ends up being either a Shield Bot or a Poke Mage that is outscaled by almost any other mage.

Captainn Ginyu1 votes

{quoted}

No riot wants enchanters to be enchanters not mages winning lane though damage or poke is a mage thing not a enchanter thing a enchanter gives buffs and peel to win the lane.

poke is a mage thing?

Sona

3TWarrior2 votes

don't forget marksmen and tanks and bruisers and some juggernauts and assassins...

poke is universal XD

Sebastit7d1 votes

It's the soraka changes over and over again, but this time they will tell us "we want janna to win lane by shielding instead of dealing damage!!"

I agree, makes no sense that they think Janna winning lane by shielding is more healthy to the game than her poke. Nothing feels worse than a person not dying because of spammable shields that have no sort of drawback or skill expression as most are instacast point and click. At least poke Janna you can punish.

Hammermancer16 votes

imagine if they reworked janna to actually do the wind mage thing

throwing trees from the terrain at people

blowing away skill shots

but no, she puts a shield on people and runs really fast

General Esdeath 2 votes

{quoted}

imagine if they reworked janna to actually do the wind mage thing

throwing trees from the terrain at people

blowing away skill shots

but no, she puts a shield on people and runs really fast

Don't forget she makes it rain and throws a tornado!

Even though tornadoes aren't caused by wind but are caused by cold and hot temperatures colliding

Voluug134 votes

WInd is caused by different temperatures in different air masses colliding.

Tornadoes are literally just Dramatic Wind.

Lunar ArcS1 votes

This made me cackle

Sir Saltarin11 votes

W max Janna is a fun playstyle that makes her interactive

Lmao that's not interactive

3TWarrior1 votes

and Q poke, E shield, never W janna is?

she has to get pretty close to use her W and almost any marksman or support can take advantage of it

Familiar Faces9 votes

To me there are already better poke champs. Janna is trade/shield champ and this incentivises that theme in her kit. Shield ally and actively peel for them would be more to her theme than occasional strong nuke then back off. Are we Janna players or Brands?

Hammermancer7 votes

I mean, I don't give a shit about w max janna

but holy shit don't buff E max janna again riot please

Sir Saltarin5 votes

but holy shit don't buff E max janna again riot please

https://giphy.com/gifs/yes-creepy-jack-nicholson-iSKFtpF2HzneE

The Ecdysiast6 votes

They're lowering the cooldown significantly, so you'll be able to spam it more. And you'll have a buffed shield up more often because of it.

And don't make claims like "most Janna players" without proof to back it up. Just because it's what people do since it's strong doesn't mean you can make the claim they prefer it. It's just the best option at the moment.

With just as little evidence, I can make the ridiculous claim that most actual support players prefer to time their shields properly instead of just benefiting from broken base stats on their damage abilities.

RebeccaUCuber4 votes

Super mega upvote! This change Will do exact opposite of what they want to do. So...: -Less interaction And more E Spam. Even if they are trying to let her be more enjoyable. -No need to have skill to land a full charged Q (Why should i charge it if i can refresh faster E Even with a bad Q?) -Q engage (a thing that i personally like cos it's unexpected) would be useless with no real rewards. -Janna is fine and absolutely doesn't need buffs -Janna's dmg is nothing compared to mage support and eventually falls off.

I dont want Janna to be a bot, and so to be gutted cos of this changes, ty.

Paletongue1 votes

but they aren't changing her Q, it will have all the same benefits as fulling charging as it will now!

You don't HAVE to refresh the E sooner if you don't want or it doesn't fit the situation. Just because you CAN get a few seconds off a spell doesn't mean you should. Both Q and W have a shorter cooldown than E, you can do it in the wrong order and still get free cooldown reduction.

RebeccaUCuber1 votes

i understand. But the refresh would be so good that i'll probably q And w in midfight!

Paletongue1 votes

Totally! But don't you think that extra desire and split second choice ADDS depth of complexity, and thus a positive change?

There's no gutting here at all, W damage down but also cooldown lowered means that her passive movement speed comes back sooner. Can't we all agree damage is too high throughout the game? I see zero downsides to this change, and wholly embrace it.

RebeccaUCuber1 votes

indeed i dont want Her To be buffed!!! She's strong enough To carry a nerf somewhere

JungleChopper2 votes

Yea it seems like a bad change I like the points you made about how it affects her

I think they just dont like her win rate

Pandemic Punch2 votes

Agreed. Either keep her current identity or just revert her to where she was when she was shield maxing

Whisper872 votes

I'm not saying all enchanters need to be the same. But personally I like the idea of having 1-2 supports who get like 90% of their value out of defensive utility. Yes that champ may become more boring as a main. But I'm a big believer in champion and strategy diversity, and personally I think the fact that having to have good harass or kill pressure in lane as a support is kind of dull. They already nerfed the control/push lane a la Zyra-Ashe into oblivion by making it so easy to punish. Poke as a laning style tends to go up and down in relative strength as it's hard to balance, but right now it's on a down swing. So in short the viable styles of play within lane phase is pretty boring.

So while a heavily defense oriented support might seem kinda boring on paper, in terms of the game as a whole I think it's quite interesting and healthy. I think in general LOL is more well designed than DOTA2, but one thing I do like is that save abilities are nearly as common as engage abilities. Versatility and variety are king in an RTS.

I know running around killing fools is fun, but there is something so satisfying about watching someone try so hard to kill your homie and then you're just like, nope. And laugh in their face. Equally enjoyable in my opinion

Nikki2 votes

Janna is one of my main champs and i think this is a great change, thanks riot. hope it makes it in

Sky Cardis2 votes

As a Janna main... I support (pun intended) the E increase and even lowering her W dmg is fine... I think the E cool down decrease is nice. Lowering cool down of W and making it cost more Mana is...mixed. I think it is better as it is honestly. Janna does not need that new effect.

Poske2 votes

I like this changes tbh

Armageddal1 votes

I don't know, it seems a little more flexible to me, and doesn't necessarily mean you stop using the Q anti-engage into W/E. Instead, it seems to open up her kit more. With the ability to reduce cooldown on her E, and therefore multi-cast, it means you can now stop the engage with your Q, then shield before the tornado hits to reduce the cooldown, slow with W to reduce it again and counter-engage. At this point, if the enemy lane tries to continue their engage, they're in a really bad spot, since even if they decide to fight through the first shield, they're going to end up fighting through a second as well. On the other hand, if they just disengage without taking out the shields, the AD increase is going to make the hits your AD lands on them as they back out punish them a lot more.

I think if anything, this change might bring Janna back into the spotlight as a laner, and put her back to being a support that encourages her AD to play aggressive, then blocks the enemy when they try to engage on the AD. But if you do go max E, it might hurt your roaming potential a bit, with less speed and less burst/slow. Still always feels good to gank for a Yasuo though :p...

noddabest1 votes

maybe if her shield didn't decay you could go for E > Q >W >E but since it does decay using E first is pointless, still hate the fact that shields decay, rather they had reduced duration/increased cooldown instead of decaying shield

Catffeine1 votes

[{quoted}](name=nice janna ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mwEmAUYX,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-05-20T19:15:04.643+0000)

  1. These changes severely hurt W max Janna which most Janna players are happy with. W max Janna is a fun playstyle that makes her interactive.

I lol'd

Chloe20051 votes

compared to the ardent meta e max janna it's more interactive

destroyer227191 votes

I like the part where her E cooldown gets reduced by slows and knockup will reduce her CD. It rewards more skilled Janna mains who can land Q snipes. But I agree I am perfectly happy with W max Janna.

The Trent1 votes

Really? I don't see it this way AT ALL. I watch a riot streamer who works on the balance team and they enjoy the W max Janna that pokes in lane. Imo, it looks like they're trying to make it so Janna's aggressive playstyle helps her peeling as well because of certain (insert any kill support) champs pushing her out of lane. You can spam w more often, but for a little less damage, and now get utility out of it... as an old janna support main (I stopped because w max felt bad), I think this is a good change.

Kadanka1 votes

Hi, as a Janna main I fully support Janna being tweaked!

I much preferred E max meta to this W max.

Here are some things I find wonky with Janna

Shield concerns.

  1. My shields are so weak! 18 second cd lvl one is mega harsh! Leading me to rarely shield except in low hp situations. Thus my adc gets frustrated with me early game and losing trust in me, they expect some level of sustain, however I can’t provide that with my shield because 90% of the time I have to use it on myself so I can get a safe poke in/ reduce the damage I take from punish.

  2. Decaying shield... tied to a AD buff... I don’t understand why or who thought this was a good idea, but It sure doesn’t feel good. Makes Janna’s enchantments even less noticeable to the team.

  3. Shield visibility: often my shields are so small! That even late game I can shield an ally from a burst attack and the damage will have popped my shield before my ally even knew what saved them! Further depreciating Janna in the eyes of her teammates.

  4. Shield AD buff: would be nice to have a way to make this visible to allies and maybe even stick around to a useable point. The best way to utilize this I’ve found is mega late game(when my shields are big enough) on tanks such as Garen or Darius or long range ulting allies such as Jhin or Caitlyn. All in all I have to make a critical choice who to buff or whom to prevent damage on. Both feel kinda unrewarding.

side note Always thought it be a cool idea to give her E a damaging effect similar to aero in kingdom hearts, or even a tiny knock back upon casting on ally, like a down burst. Also looking at the enchantment provided perhaps armor/Mr buff instead of AD could help the shield survive and be move visible.

E meta is fun, but rarely do I feel like a support. If I wanna poke/damage there are far superior options.

Janna’s passive could also be looked at, many people don’t even know what it is or how it works. Although very powerful, teammates don’t seem to utilize it nearly enough, in the games I’ve played.

In conclusion I feel these changes In the pbe are a good first step to maybe finding Janna a balanced place where’s she’s not so annoying to play against and satisfying support for the adc where they feel peeled / shielded for early game, helping build trust between the adc and Janna. The major issue I have with the W meta is the adc has little support till R is available. Having played against a few really good Janna’s, her MS and W can be very frustrating to deal with when paired with no vision.

Just my 2c :3 don’t hate me.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes