Ivern is held hostage

MethaFreak·Sep 14, 2018·6 votes·3,344 views

As I main support I'd just like to say that there should be a way to bring Ivern into lane in a viable way. I know he is supposed to be this unique jungle but the fact that compared to every other champion pool support is still the smallest, Riot still chooses to release a support that in no way is viable in lane and its just playable as a jungle, and that on top of that he has been at the lowest jungle winrate for the last what? 4 months.... Just food for thought. I'd love to see him somehow in lane, giving other option of a passive if you for example don't take smite....

19 Comments

Beatrice fallsSep 14, 20183 votes

Ivern item 3147 item 3095 item 1412 item 3087 item 3036

Colton147Sep 14, 20182 votes

Ivern

item 3124 item 3146 item 3006 item 3153 item 3115 item 3100

GaliöSep 14, 20182 votes

Champion pool is currently 24 junglers and 25 supports. Support pool isnt the smallest.

zolikingSep 14, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Champion pool is currently 24 junglers and 25 supports. Support pool isnt the smallest.

Junglers: Amumu Fiddlesticks Gragas Graves Hecarim Ivern JarvanIV Jax Kayn Khazix Kindred LeeSin Nidalee Nocturne Nunu Olaf Pantheon Rammus RekSai Rengar Sejuani Shaco Shyvana Skarner Trundle Udyr Volibear Warwick XinZhao Zac

Supports: Alistar Blitzcrank Braum Janna Karma Leona Lulu Lux Morgana Nami Nautilus Pyke Rakan Sona Soraka Taric Thresh Zilean Zyra

So... Bad math on your part?

WoadKethuntSep 14, 20181 votes

you're forgetting that most mages and most tanks like gragas are played as supports (no matter how scummy brand support is you can't ignore it) even some adcs like mf and ashe see support play

going by which champions riot tells you are support is a mistake

illaoi support is a lot better than most "primary" supports when paired with a early game adc

zolikingSep 14, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Loli Ravioli,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mu2vcZeG,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2018-09-14T03:39:54.939+0000)

you're forgetting that most mages and most tanks like gragas are played as supports (no matter how scummy brand support is you can't ignore it) even some adcs like mf and ashe see support play

going by which champions riot tells you are support is a mistake

illaoi support is a lot better than most "primary" supports when paired with a early game adc

The support tab in champ select is based on what players play, whether trolling or not. Your approach seems to be the same. Whether a champion is viable in the role does not depend on how many people play it, it is derived from their intrinsic qualities, aka their kit. The only champ I listed because of what Riot says is Pyke, and I only included him, because clearly it was Riot's intention to release him as nothing but a support. So if I stop taking into account Riot's opinion here, this list would shrink.

GaliöSep 14, 20181 votes

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/support

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/jungle

zolikingSep 14, 20182 votes

{quoted}

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/support

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/jungle

Even in this list it's 28 to 37 in favor of junglers, moreover it doesn't seem super reliable, as it lists Vel and Annie and Xerath among supports. So this doesn't exactly support the idea that there are more supports than junglers.

GaliöSep 14, 20181 votes

It goes by players that's play champions into specific roles by a good margin. Vel and Annie ( both of which were top tier supports at one point) have a large portion of games as a support, and it seems xerath players like to occasionally use him as support.

First numbers I have were off the top of my head. This is more of an accurate number which I was a little off by initially.

zolikingSep 14, 20181 votes

{quoted}

It goes by players that's play champions into specific roles by a good margin. Vel and Annie ( both of which were top tier supports at one point) have a large portion of games as a support, and it seems xerath players like to occasionally use him as support.

First numbers I have were off the top of my head. This is more of an accurate number which I was a little off by initially.

I already addressed this counting a champ as a support just because people play it that way nonsense. Lemme find you the quote:

{quoted}

The support tab in champ select is based on what players play, whether trolling or not. Your approach seems to be the same. Whether a champion is viable in the role does not depend on how many people play it, it is derived from their intrinsic qualities, aka their kit.

GaliöSep 14, 20182 votes

Well morgana, for example, is a mid laner with a mid laners kit who was made popular into support.

Annie was a mid laner, who became a staple support, then was hard nerfed out of support, and is now rebuffed to be a support.

Zyra kit is also mid was a mid laner and got forced into support and now stats support.

Half of the supports we have are kits meant for top or mId and got pushed support.

There is no 'non sense' for these numbers because they arent outliers. They are common picks for those roles.

Some junglers werent meant to be junglers and they just happened in there cause (like supports) they generally dont need much gold to be successful.

DarukongSrSep 14, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Junglers:

Supports:

So... Bad math on your part?

You're forgetting brand and kench sup. Oh and my boi Darius as well ;)

Agent CorgiSep 14, 20182 votes

As a M7 Ivern player, I've had some experience with Ivern in both Jungle AND Lane Support. He's much better suited to the Jungle, but I think it'd be cool if you could take him to Botlane as a legitimate Support.

As a General Support, I actually can't think of a good situation where Ivern can work as a Regular Support with a standard Lane (ADC/APC). I've played it before & it's extremely difficult. His [E: Triggerseed] has a rather high cooldown at early levels (12/11/10/9/8) & it's Mana Cost (70 Mana at all Levels) makes it so he can't spam it in lane. It's one of his most important tools when in Lane & not being able to spam it is going to make things difficult for him & his carry. He also has minimal peel, His [Q: Rootcaller] can only root a single enemy & it's a skillshot ( so if you miss it, you're in the soup). The slow he gets using his [E: Triggerseed] isn't that bad (40%/45%/50%/55%/60%), but against CC-Oriented supports like Leona Leona or Pyke Pyke , you're not getting away from them.

Hypothetically, there might be one possible candidate for Ivern to support in Botlane. Rengar can utilize Ivern's [W: Brushmaker] to pounce all over the botlane. Ivern's W does have a decently long cast range (1000 units) & while it does have an insanely long Cooldown, it can hold up to 3 charges at a time. While I've never gotten the chance to actually play this yet, it sounds like it might work out.

Here's the setup I use when I play Ivern in the Support-Role.

Runes: Sorcery: Summon Aery/Manaflow Band/Celerity/Gathering Storm Resolve: Font of Life/Revitalize
Build: / - (Boots of Choice) - - - - / / /

NééköSep 14, 20181 votes

Get a friend and do ranger, ivern bot. It's pretty fun watching ranger jump from Bush to enemy and you place another Bush onto him.

SirsirSep 14, 20181 votes

Rengar*

SwiftKitten88Sep 14, 20181 votes

the problem with Ivern is he builds item 3174 .

and while the item 1039 chance was an absolute godsend to every other jungle in the game

ivern actually WANTED the %225 mana regen it used to have, because how it worked in the jungle with item 3174 .

that is what nerfed him into unplayabilty

riot need to fixs item 3174 . or change ivern himself

because me and every other mana using jungle in the game would try to rip your head off if your tried to ask them to revert item 1039

becuase that was the single biggest improvement they had made in last 2 seasons

General MattySep 14, 20181 votes

M7 Ivern player as well here. Ivern is super fun but i just don't play him anymore in favor of just better junglers. Poor tree guy....

KrullySep 14, 20181 votes

he's unique sure, but if he was to git gud I imagine he'd be very oppressive, while being safe and due to thisbe a top pick in pro play meaning he'd be nerfed into the dirt.

SirsirSep 14, 20181 votes

His kit as a whole doesn't really work for it

Q is great for getting champs into range, which usually isn't a problem for the ADC role. Could be really useful with Mordekaiser or maybe Yasuo but thats about it