I think if galio was ranged (for basic attacks) he'd be viable.
Any thoughts?
Any thoughts?
Sure it'd make him "viable", but it speaks to a failure in base design. He was designed to be a tank. Kinda odd having a tank that has no reason to enter melee range. Sure, we can just say "well just make him a Mage then" , but then, what about him really stands out or even identifies him as "Mage" besides his bursty damage? You'd just be forcing a tank's skillset onto a Mage.
Sure it'd make him "viable", but it speaks to a failure in base design. He was designed to be a tank. Kinda odd having a tank that has no reason to enter melee range. Sure, we can just say "well just make him a Mage then" , but then, what about him really stands out or even identifies him as "Mage" besides his bursty damage? You'd just be forcing a tank's skillset onto a Mage.
The biggest issue with the tank vs mage identity issue is his lack of sustain. His W is a great teamfight and dueling tool but it is definitely not a reliable source of sustain. If Galio had something like Xerath's passive he'd probably be called overpowered. Galio is almost obligated to rush Catalyst or Chalice, no matter the matchup, just so he can stay in lane for more than 3 waves at a time.
Galio's identity to me has always been a sort of reverse Malphite/Rammus, someone who gets more powerful as he stacks MR with some cool utility built into his E and ult. Honestly I think all three champions are in need of some QoL redesign. Galio needs something that either helps him gain extra MR (think Thresh passive) and/or more ways to make use of his excessive MR.
Of the three I mentioned I think Malphite has the best overall design, mostly due to the synergy between him and Frozen Heart. It may be a generic item but it gives Malph everything he needs (armor, cdr, mana) with a passive that super synergizes with his E. I think Galio needs something like this; I'm not sure how long you've been playing the game but there use to be an item called 'Force of Nature' that worked amazingly with him (move speed, MR, regen). It use to be that after you got Athene's, FoN and Aegis on Galio you were this unkillable engine of burst.
I think if we introduced an item; something like:
Catalyst + Null Magic Mantle + Null Magic Mantle + 500 gold = Force of Nature
+300 Health +400 Mana +50 Magic Resist +8% Movement Speed
UNIQUE – VALOR'S REWARD: On leveling up, restores 150 health and 200 mana over 8 seconds.
This Force of Nature would have a total cost of 2600 gold with a gold value of 2796 for just the stats it provides with the additional bonus of the unique passive. Force of Nature was originally removed from the game because "the stats it gave didn't synergize with each other, and it provided too much magic resistance in one item."
We now have multiple items that grant 50 MR. Aside from Chalice (Athene's/Mikael's) we have no items that provide both MR and Mana and aside from Merc Treads we have no items that provide MR and move speed. Galio needs all three of these stats to operate, I think with just the introduction of an item similar to this Galio would be very playable without the need for a rework of any kind.
The biggest issue with the tank vs mage identity issue is his lack of sustain. His W is a great teamfight and dueling tool but it is definitely not a reliable source of sustain. If Galio had something like Xerath's passive he'd probably be called overpowered. Galio is almost obligated to rush Catalyst or Chalice, no matter the matchup, just so he can stay in lane for more than 3 waves at a time.
Galio's identity to me has always been a sort of reverse Malphite/Rammus, someone who gets more powerful as he stacks MR with some cool utility built into his E and ult. Honestly I think all three champions are in need of some QoL redesign. Galio needs something that either helps him gain extra MR (think Thresh passive) and/or more ways to make use of his excessive MR.
Of the three I mentioned I think Malphite has the best overall design, mostly due to the synergy between him and Frozen Heart. It may be a generic item but it gives Malph everything he needs (armor, cdr, mana) with a passive that super synergizes with his E. I think Galio needs something like this; I'm not sure how long you've been playing the game but there use to be an item called 'Force of Nature' that worked amazingly with him (move speed, MR, regen). It use to be that after you got Athene's, FoN and Aegis on Galio you were this unkillable engine of burst.
I think if we introduced an item; something like:
Catalyst + Null Magic Mantle + Null Magic Mantle + 500 gold = Force of Nature
+300 Health +400 Mana +50 Magic Resist +8% Movement Speed
UNIQUE – VALOR'S REWARD: On leveling up, restores 150 health and 200 mana over 8 seconds.
This Force of Nature would have a total cost of 2600 gold with a gold value of 2796 for just the stats it provides with the additional bonus of the unique passive. Force of Nature was originally removed from the game because "the stats it gave didn't synergize with each other, and it provided too much magic resistance in one item."
We now have multiple items that grant 50 MR. Aside from Chalice (Athene's/Mikael's) we have no items that provide both MR and Mana and aside from Merc Treads we have no items that provide MR and move speed. Galio needs all three of these stats to operate, I think with just the introduction of an item similar to this Galio would be very playable without the need for a rework of any kind.
what if this item gave you a % of mr?
range alone would be nice as it would at least promote his mage playstyle which is pretty much how people build him anyway. he was designed to be a tank who can build full mr and steal deal decent damage, but if anyone has even gone 9/21/0 galio they know he is essentially useless and deals zero damage even with some ap items to boot.
what galio needs is significant mana cost reduction, some cooldowns reduced on at least one of his abilities(probably the Q), and the base dmg lowered on that ability so he can have a threat up a lot of the time. The Q is pretty much your only way to farm early, but its also your only damaging spell as you max it. so people just stand out of the wave and force you to either farm with your Q or hit them while they fast shove your wave in because they know you will go oom VERY fast. I think if you reduced his base damages on the Q, maybe slightly upped the AP Ratio, and lowered its cooldown/mana cost he would be a lot more viable. the W should be a lot lower, as with his current mana costs as well you can't really afford to use his W, which is a big part of who he is.
His kit is not that bad. its not cancer or toxic and actually does have counterplay. Ranged autos I'm not sure alone would be enough. I'd love to see the mana issues fixed first. then I'd actually play him a lot more often. I like galio and even I don't play him because of his mana issues. you basically have to rush rod of ages and surrender early game when you pick him.
I think he has too much counterplay. I also agree with just about everything you said. Personally think having his ult harder to cancel, but reducing the taunt time a bit would go a long way. Just feels that if someone sneezes on him during his ult it breaks it. Even Kat can take a binding and not stop her ult.
I think he has too much counterplay. I also agree with just about everything you said. Personally think having his ult harder to cancel, but reducing the taunt time a bit would go a long way. Just feels that if someone sneezes on him during his ult it breaks it. Even Kat can take a binding and not stop her ult.
Also if he ults Braum/bear Udyr he's basically fucked.
If Gallio would have proper synergie with his melee AAs, he also would be better(and honestly, he IS viable if you know what you do, he does his job as a siege-tank very well, his Q+E offers great poke, good disengagae and fast rotations, his Ult is a massive counterengage that can punish dives and supoptimal engages really hard.)
Though still, the thing that annoys me the most is that he's the only melee that has no reason to use AAs, no mechanic tied to them and he won't get ad/as from items, he doesn't even have great base stats compared to other tanks...just give him mr-based magic damage on hit or something like that. Aditionally, his biggest propblems are still hard-cc on-hit, or with unfortunate timeing(i guess everyone who plays a bit gallio had moments where he flashed in for an ult and got it inst cancled by an enemy that finished casteing a spell while beeing taunted) If hi ult wouldn't do damage but therefor gets set on 5 sec cd if it gets interuppted within the first ~0.5sec, it would help alot, or if he gets cc-imunity vs taunted opponents... you can't pick him if Braum is open for example, as you would play a champ with +50%of his total power put into his while never beeing able to use that ult, which really sucks. Hard-couters shouldn't be a thing.
[{quoted}](name=Don Pavoni,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mkavuhao,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2015-10-22T13:45:40.490+0000)
If Gallio would have proper synergie with his melee AAs, he also would be better(and honestly, he IS viable if you know what you do, he does his job as a siege-tank very well, his Q+E offers great poke, good disengagae and fast rotations, his Ult is a massive counterengage that can punish dives and supoptimal engages really hard.
Though still, the thing that annoys me the most is that he's the only melee that has no reason to use AAs, no mechanic tied to them and he won't get ad/as from items, he doesn't even have great base stats compared to other tanks...just give him mr-based magic damage on hit or something like that. Aditionally, his biggest propblems are still hard-cc on-hit, or with unfortunate timeing(i guess everyone who plays a bit gallio had moments where he flashed in for an ult and got it inst cancled by an enemy that finished casteing a spell while beeing taunted) If hi ult wouldn't do damage but therefor gets set on 5 sec cd if it gets interuppted within the first ~0.5sec, it would help alot, or if he gets cc-imunity vs taunted opponents... you can't pick him if Braum is open for example, as you would play a champ with +50%of his total power put into his while never beeing able to use that ult, which really sucks. Hard-couters shouldn't be a thing.
I like the idea of on-hit damage scaling with bonus MR but that's more a straight buff.
Hard counters are important in a game like League of Legends because of a concept called "cyclical balance"; ? > A > B > C > ?
It's a very complicated set of rock-paper-scissors that gets even worse when you mix in the concepts of hard/soft counters. Aside from it being impossible to not have hard counters in this game (the second one champ was given different range than another a counter was made) a MOBA with no hard-counters would be very boring.
i don't agree that hard counters are important, i prefer the philosophie riot officially stated some years ago, which means the game is impacted, but not decided by pick/ban. rock-paper-scissors is a horrible balance concept for that kind off game, as you can't revisit you choice within up to 60min, if you pick a rock vs paper, you have a poor next ~40 min ahead of you. it's not the same as a SC2 like rts, where you can swich fro produceing stones to scissors if they come with papers to stay in the metaphor. The countering should be mostly dynamic and happen mostly through ingame decissions, and not be hardset from the stzarting conditions.
And nope, range advantages alone is not a hardcounter, i don't feel hardcountered by range alon as wukong, it becomes a hardcounter if range is given all the needed tools to stay at range, or if melees are not given the needed tools to close the gap. And while we're at it, giving gallio ranged AAs also would be a straight buff.
I always thought he should've been since the first time i saw him. At least then it would justify his high mana costs.
If Nasus had 450 auto and Q range, he'd be viable too.
Kinda different, considering Galio's a mage and Nasus is a bruiser.
I thought apples and oranges made the same pie?
Mmm orange pie.
I think apple is the best color of the rainbow.
Purple is my favorite fruit
And Nasus can still potentially one-shot somebody with his Q with a full tank build.
Well, yes, but that's a whole different can of worms.
A: He is viable B: Nasus is not a mage. Unless he is.
Implying that Galio isn't viable already...
He's viable now. Giving him range would make him super OP.
Galio is viable, you just mash Q E to farm, and flash ult baylife it to win ez.
I did...and got nothing but downvotes for it.
He's perfectly fine where he is. I think maybe his shield should heal whoever it's placed on though, to make him more viable as support.
I feel like a short ranged flash on his ultimate like fiddle would be bad ass so you would be flash dependant for your ultimate to be useful what a terrible weakness what's the flash CD 5 mins? So Galileo ultimate CD might as well be his flash CD. And a slight buff to his Aa range maybe 50 units if he stays melee. Also his q CD is redic high his tornado is lackluster feel and his mana costs are to high on top of that. He also feels like he is slow even though he really is not.
How is he not viable? Of course he is not a safe blindpick like all the other easy meta midlaners like Ahri, Lux, Viktor, etc....he is strong in certain situations and rather weak in others. Clear strenghts, clear weaknesses. If you pick him in the right matchup he always does his job.
I feel like Galio is extremely underrated now. He has really nice utility and his kit synergizes extremely well with itself. I feel like if he had ranged auto attacks he'd be much more viable as right now he's kind of awkward as a Mage with melee range on his auto attacks but his abilities are all ranged. Giving him ranged auto attacks would let him farm more safely and also harass but also eliminate his awkward auto attacks that don't seem to fit right with his kit.