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Abyssal Scepter + Kayle

Pethrax··6 votes·2,389 views

So, just jumped on the PBE and tried the rework of Abyssal Scepter with Kayle. Rushed Nashor's, grabbed boots, and then got Abyssal.....I really must say that the way the item and Kayle's passive work in tandem is truly disgustingly evil. Galio Bot, 138 MR, walked into my bush....Q E auto auto auto, dead. His MR went as follows: 138. Abyssal Proc'd, reduced by 5% down to 131.1 (keeping decimals for now). Q hit, 3% reduced, 126.96. 3 autos, 9% more, 114.54, another AS proc, 5% more down the drain, 100.74. At this point, he was down to half health and had only gotten his Q and one auto on me. Another proc and another auto brought his MR down to a pitiful 96.6 and a quarter health, and then a wild Rengar appeared to ks. But thats besides the point.

The point is, with the range on Abyssal Scepter being just slightly shorter, like maybe 25 units radius shorter, than Kayle's Autoattacks with Righteous Fury activated, the wombo combo in total reduces an enemy's MR by 45%, and if she grabs a Wit's End like she is supposed to, that is another 25 MR gone. So with only 2 items, Kayle can take 100 MR, take 25 and then reduce it by 45%, leaving 41.25 with just 5 autoattacks. If she gets pen boots and void staff, she ignores 15 of the 41.25, leaving 26.25, ignoring another 35% after, so with 3 items and boots, the enemy is left with 17.06 effective mr against Kayle, not something anyone wants to be dealing with.

Basically what I am saying is that right now, I think that abyssal Scepter changing from 20 flat to up to 30 percent REDUCTION may be too powerful. I know for a fact that mage assassins with gap closers like Ahri, Kassadin, Ekko, Kayle, Evelynn, and quite a few others with short range are going to see a huge spike in power, and survivability by purchasing this item.

They already brought it down from 45 to 30, but I think the main change that should occur is from percent, to flat.

19 Comments

Ice Weasel X4 votes

{quoted}

The point is, with the range on Abyssal Scepter being just slightly shorter, like maybe 25 units radius shorter, than Kayle's Autoattacks with Righteous Fury activated, the wombo combo in total reduces an enemy's MR by 45%, and if she grabs a Wit's End like she is supposed to, that is another 25 MR gone. So with only 2 items, Kayle can take 100 MR, take 25 and then reduce it by 45%, leaving 41.25 with just 5 autoattacks. If she gets pen boots and void staff, she ignores 15 of the 41.25, leaving 26.25, ignoring another 35% after, so with 3 items and boots, the enemy is left with 17.06 effective mr against Kayle, not something anyone wants to be dealing with.

Actually, you got your penetration order backwards. % penetration before flat penetration (reverse of reduction). With the target reduced to 41.25, the Void Staff hits before the Sorcerer's Shoes, giving you a final effective value of 11.8125. That''s even stronger than you thought.

I just realized, you didn't even include her passive reduction for this part.

Pethrax1 votes

Actually, yes I did factor her passive, that's how I got 45%. 15% from her passive, 30% from the passive of AS. And you are correct, I mixed up my penetrations. Don't try that at home ;)

Duke Anax1 votes

afaik they stack multiplicatively so it would be (1-15%)x(1-30%) = 40,5%

Ice Weasel X2 votes

{quoted}

Actually, yes I did factor her passive, that's how I got 45%. 15% from her passive, 30% from the passive of AS. And you are correct, I mixed up my penetrations. Don't try that at home ;)

Ah, gotcha. I assumed the 45% was from the Abyssal Scepter, but then that would've required 8-12 seconds of proximity and I guess you were basing this on running in and unloading.

Llanite3 votes

So let me sum it up.

Kayle has 3 Tier 3 items + boots vs Galio who has 1 MR item.

Galio died -> Abyssal OP.

Pethrax1 votes

Actually, no. Kayle with 2 Tier 3 items, vs Galio with 2 Tier 3 Items. Galio was an inter bot, and the first 2 items he gets are Athenes and Abyssal Scepter. Galio at lvl 16 has 50.2 mr, plus 25 from athenes, plus 60 from "new" scepter gives a total of 135.2. Inter bots also have masteries, so it got bumped up to 138. So, we both had Abyssal Scepter, I had Nashors tooth and he had Athene's, and we both had tier 1 boots. He also had a doran's shield, but that doesn't really matter.

The later part of my post is conjecture of what would have happened if I had continued to snowball and purchase the remaining items Wit's End, upgraded my boots, and Galio had been made my b!tch and never got another item. Also, how did you come to the conclusion that Galio had only 1 mr item? In reality, there aren't many strong MR items compared to AR.

Llanite1 votes

{quoted}

Actually, no. Kayle with 2 Tier 3 items, vs Galio with 2 Tier 3 Items. Galio was an inter bot, and the first 2 items he gets are Athenes and Abyssal Scepter. Galio at lvl 16 has 50.2 mr, plus 25 from athenes, plus 60 from "new" scepter gives a total of 135.2. Inter bots also have masteries, so it got bumped up to 138. So, we both had Abyssal Scepter, I had Nashors tooth and he had Athene's, and we both had tier 1 boots. He also had a doran's shield, but that doesn't really matter.

The later part of my post is conjecture of what would have happened if I had continued to snowball and purchase the remaining items Wit's End, upgraded my boots, and Galio had been made my b!tch and never got another item. Also, how did you come to the conclusion that Galio had only 1 mr item? In reality, there aren't many strong MR items compared to AR.

52 at 18, 30 from bulwark = 82, last 50 should be from 1 Mr item.

Eitherway, hat Galio is still terribly underfed

Craft Zeppelin2 votes

rito's logic:

"Better nerf that ksing rengar"

LilxPaprika1 votes

the thing is they might have overshot its damage. imma do a math run down in a bit... but ya they undervalued the mpen percentage.. thing is it needs to be a magic pen item first aoe damage aura second. right now its comparable to sunfire's aura even without the magic pen debuff.

Pethrax1 votes

Exactly so. Just the AOE damage by sticking to someone for 6 seconds is the same as sunfire cape, but unlike Sunfire, you and your entire team now deal more magic damage. And since almost every single champion deals some form of magic damage, regardless of their role, just getting this is tantamount to countering any and all resistances the enemy builds because its a PERCENT.

Imagine if you will, if Nautilus, currently top tier jungler, were to grab one of these and a sunfire? He gets right in the middle of the enemy team, and the enemy gets cc'd? Game over, easy pickings.

Oh, side note, Sunfire Cape's damage is also magic, so that gets buffed to. Tank synergy FTW! Throw these on Mundo and grab a Warmog's and Spirit Visage, and whistle while you burn through everyone while doing a tap dance. Mundo goes where he pleases.

LifeCyclesTWA1 votes

{quoted}

Exactly so. Just the AOE damage by sticking to someone for 6 seconds is the same as sunfire cape, but unlike Sunfire, you and your entire team now deal more magic damage. And since almost every single champion deals some form of magic damage, regardless of their role, just getting this is tantamount to countering any and all resistances the enemy builds because its a PERCENT.

Imagine if you will, if Nautilus, currently top tier jungler, were to grab one of these and a sunfire? He gets right in the middle of the enemy team, and the enemy gets cc'd? Game over, easy pickings.

Oh, side note, Sunfire Cape's damage is also magic, so that gets buffed to. Tank synergy FTW! Throw these on Mundo and grab a Warmog's and Spirit Visage, and whistle while you burn through everyone while doing a tap dance. Mundo goes where he pleases.

I actually currently run these 3 core items on Mordekaiser .... item 3001 item 3068 item 3020

Followed by item 3075 if vs an auto-attack heavy team.

This is due to the massive synergy between these items. vs these AD heavy teams, 2 armor items is a good idea, I prefer Thornmail + Sunfire to Randuin's and Frozen Heart. Thornmail and Sunfire have great synergy with abyssal's aura.

IGotScuttleCrabs2 votes

I really enjoy this build on Leona. Support or solo lane. Get their 2 gold item and ss then bamis>finish item 3001 item 3068 item 3075

LilxPaprika1 votes

okay here we go:

TL DL: the magic pen gives the aura like an extra 2 damage to an extra 5.5 damage depending how how much you debuffed someone.

so at level 18 this gives you 76 + 3.5 ish dmg every 2 seconds which is pretty darn close to sunfire which gives your 86 dmg every 2 seconds. Some math:

Resistances are calculated like so: Here is how you can easily calculate effective health armor or mr divide it by 100 and add 1 and then you can multiply your health by that number to find your effective health 100 armor and 1000 hp 100 armor/100=1 +1 = 2 2 x 1000 = 2000 effective health against physical damage

So essentially it giving you a tolerance of taking twice as much damage which is the equivalent of the damage doing half as much to you.

instead of having effective health of 2000... you can just divide the damage dealt to you instead of multiplying your health by the value obtained from dividing your armor or mr by 100 then adding 1.

Knowing this...

okay so lets calculate reducing your mr by 10% for the first stack.

taking 76 dmg at level 18...

**Squishy: (50 armor) **

50 (armor) times .9 (first 10% debuff) = 45 45/100 = .45+1 = 1.45 at 50 armor you take: 76/1.5 = 50.666 damage After the first 10% debuff you take: 76 / 1.45 = 52.4137.. 50.6666 - 52.4137 = 1.7471

**bruisers: (95 armor) ** 95 (armor) times .9 (first 10% debuff) = 85.5 95/100 = .95 +1 = 1.95 76/1.95= 38.974 76/1.855 = 40.970
40.970 - 38.974 = 1.996

**Tank: (160 armor) ** 160 times .9 (first 10% debuff) =144

76/2.6 = 29.2307

76/2.44 = 31.1475

31.1475 - 29.2307 = 1.9168

average is (1.7471 +1.996+1.9168)/3 = 1.8866

on first stack.. you get about 1.8866 more dmg on second thats 3.773 on third that's 5.66

so your aoe is doing 76+1.8866= on first hit and up to 76+5.66 on third hit = 81.66 which is nearly the same as sunfire cap as it does 86dmg every 2 seconds. on third stack its doing about the same as sunfire. not to mention now your spells do more dmg and so do your allies.

I might be okay if it was just you that benefitted from the debuff. but not you and your allies.

LilxPaprika1 votes

exactly. so would you agree that they overshot it?

While granted its fun and very powerful it wouldn't bode well if it were to appear on live in its current form.

though of course they did mention that "These are highly tentative" changes.

Do you also think it ought to be a mpen item first and aura damaging item second? Such that it wouldn't be so much relied upon for it aura damage as much as amplifying your magic spell damage and other items like item 3068 item 3075

on another note check out this suggestion:

New description could go like:

UNIQUE Passive:Every 4 seconds emanates a pulse dealing 12 (+1 per champion level) magic damage to nearby enemy champions with each consecutive pulse dealing the precedent pulse's damage cumulatively (up to 3 times; example **30/60/90 **dmg at lvl 18). Each pulse also reduces an enemy champion's Magic Resist by 10% for 10 seconds (stacks up to 3 times, up to 30%)

30+60+90=180 vs sunfire 86 x 3 =258

Pethrax1 votes

I would rather it not be percent personally, but if we do percent, then I would rather have it be penetration not reduction. Reasoning for this is because you cannot penetrate past 0, but you can REDUCE past 0, thus AMPLIFYING damage. And with this being a continuous pulse, along with any other aoe damage (Sunfire cape + champ abilities) being amplified, this becomes almost too good. And I am hopeful that since RIOT does say "TENTATIVE" that this will be getting a nerf somehow, somewhere. I really don't like the idea of a Galio with AS, Thorn and Sunfire flash ulting and getting a pentakill. Really just sounds like a bad idea.

Duke Anax1 votes

however you cannot reduce past 0 with a percentage and flat gets applied first.

theragingnerd1 votes

YEAH AHRI BUFFS SWEET M8

lShocks1 votes

Its also gonna work gd on Shen

largefish1 votes

Imagine kayle with wits end abyssal scepter black cleaver bork and runaans, she'd be the ultimate stat shredder.

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