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Why talking about toxic behavior is like pulling teeth

FadedYordle··11 votes·1,786 views

After about over the 8,000 games played I am coming to the conclusion that chat should not exist. 100% in game chat should not exist for the sole purpose of flaming others or even typing. Pings offer great communication as is. Some stuff that should be added is when ults are on CD. It should be only about when objectives were taken and ping alerts. Primarily game focused . If you have seen the amount of times I was blamed for something out of my control or the enemy team typing "gg ez" is not a good experience in my book. If these are the kinds of players you say you want out of your game. If this is the sort of stuff you don't want happening. . Exactly. Chat overall should be removed and should implement and solely focus on the game only . I have been told multiple times to "Stop playing" "You shouldn't even be playing." "You are so bad" "Well here comes another loss"and even worse said to not only me but teammates as well. Now I am not saying its the whole community but at the same time I have seen bad behavior in 70% in my games. Riot claiming that have dropped 50% "toxicity" rate in ranked is a load of baloney.I have also seen good behavior as well but vary rarely. What are your thoughts?

28 Comments

Iqqi6 votes

I completely agree.

With the rework of pings 90% of all communications can be communicated through pings and the few things still missing Riot could easily add. Riot's last communication on this issue they said 8% of their players are toxic. This is a very different definition of "toxic" than what the rest of the world considers "toxic". I expect that 8% to be much larger in reality. Virtually every ranked game has a toxic comment. Going to be on one side of the team.

Anyway back on topic. Chat today serves no point whatsoever except to facilitate and encourage toxicity. In fact I would even argue that Riot clearly encourages this kind of behavior. They have created the system(s) that is used for all toxicity and they refuse to do anything about it. All chat is the perfect example of Riot encouraging toxic behavior. All chat serves absolutely no point whatsoever in any games outside of possibly custom games. All chat has no purpose in actual player vs. player games and its only existence is to provide a way to taunt and harass players on the apposing team.

TL:DR - Since day 1 Riot has not cared a moment about community. Riot is a for profit company. They are completely focused on revenue generation. Like all other for profit companies they will never make a change or spend resources which ultimately will not lead to a net increase in revenue. There are plenty of people who think Riot is this all caring good company. They are not. Sure a majority of their employees truly care and are good people. It is the people at the very top who make all the policies and run the company who do not care about a damn thing other than maximizing revenue and stock price.

Z Statistic3 votes

Well, no, talking about Toxicity is like pulling teeth because if I saw that you've utterly lost your mind and need to fully understand the full gravity of what you're suggesting so that you don't cut off your nose to spit your face, a lot of people would dogpile me or downvote me to hell or antagonize me for daring to suggest that we should accept toxic people as part of the community or not punish them, even though I never did.

It's like pulling teeth because it's one of those topics where virtually no one except Riot wants an actual discussion; they want to say their piece and would rather silence criticism or opposite opinions than discuss openly or simply let them be.

But to respond to your example, just fucking mute them. If people get under your skin, then just mute them and report them after. For fucking sake, they way people talk about single instances of negative behavior, it's like a single sentence does irreparable damage to the receiver.

A8KkXovSOf1 votes

gg

Z Statistic4 votes

omg, I'm so fucking triggered. I might never be the same. I'll never be able to find a job, get a waifu, or even get out of bronze. Rito, permanently ban this asshole for being so fucking toxic.

A8KkXovSOf1 votes

lol we are friends now i'll give you my sister to for honor.

FadedYordle1 votes

I'm not talking about single instances. This is over a period of YEARS. This has been on everyone's plate of not only my own but for others as well. Chat in general has not been fixed. Shot calling in chat has been reduced to a dice roll of what you get for reponses. Yes. I have muted 100's of people in games for rude behavior but I want you to imagine where all those mutes get collected. There's a more bigger picture then my post was intending but I hope this gives some insight. Also if we have to resort to muting everyone every game everytime. We have a issue of "pings vs text communication"

Z Statistic2 votes

'Over a period of years'? You've been playing with the same person despite them being toxic to you for years? That's a problem solved by therapy, not Riot.

On a more serious note, your OP is anecdotal at best and strawman at worst. Your experience doesn't represent mine at all, and I have been actively playing since Season 2. You're either exaggerating or honestly oversensitive. Who the fuck mutes everyone every game?

If you really feel rubbed this raw by the community after so many years, you need therapy. That's not an insult; it's actually genuine advice. It'll help you cope because your suggestion is ludicrous, and your responses are entirely hyperbolic without any grasp of perspective. I would imagine that if you feel the need to mute literally everyone you play with, you must have a lot of anxiety when talking with people in the world.

FadedYordle1 votes

This has not been a friend of mine. Most of my friends are people I either talk to in real life or just voice communication. A lot of my peers are always helpful and know what my intentions are when I ask and I also listen to them about a gameplan or just fun.

It has not really rubbed me raw about this community at all, what I mean by this the people that actually contribute and put forth great effort towards it are wonderful people. Just pointing out that this kind of behavior happens almost every game even if its on the losing enemy team. The "Just mute them" only narrows it down to 1 person. 1 game. move on. It does not fix the behavior that is garenteed to happen again unless you fix the source.The chat. Regardless everyone rages at some point but why not fix the source of the problem and have some sort of voice communication. ( Curse voice tried this) or a better ping system. It was mearly a suggestion that text chat does not solve the issue of how a team of people should communicte.

Z Statistic1 votes

A lot of my peers are always helpful and know what my intentions are when I ask and I also listen to them about a gameplan or just fun.

the people that actually contribute and put forth great effort towards it are wonderful people

Just pointing out that this kind of behavior happens almost every game even if its on the losing enemy team

Pick one. Those are contradictory sentiments. You cannot say that people who are always helpful and communicate well are also people who rebuff you and contribute to the negative atmosphere at the same time. Your peers are also random people, and they matter.

Because here's the things, the source of the problem? It ain't chat. It's people. Whether those people are good people who have a moment of weakness or people who actively want to ruin your day, it's still people. Chat isn't calling you slurs; people are. Pretending that taking away chat for good, which is fucking stupid for a plethora of reasons that should be self-evident, will solve the problem of toxicity is one of the highest forms of naivete I've seen on these boards.

I'm 99% sure you're just salty/mad/frustrated at the moment because of recent games and saying whatever the hell makes you feel better.

FadedYordle1 votes

What I am saying why target the people when you can tackle the chat all togather. (Also nit picking at my words and thinking I have never faced a toxic voice communicator ever is vary low even for you. There are two sides of the same coin yet you nit pick when i do not mention such side.)Also you are just making up stuff at this point in time and I wish to go no further. You still have not given me a reason for why we should even keep it. Let alone "all the good things told in game on both teams" but I am sure riot gave those "real" statistics on player behavior. If you actually buy into that.

A. I have faced more "toxic behavior when it comes to text. B. I have had less toxic voice chat communication then text communication.

Last but not least the assuming bit on your end is getting out of hand. How about we actually discuss the topic at hand of "what's better. Text communication or voice communication. Which is less toxic?"

Z Statistic1 votes

Wow, you're actually serious? Ok.

Then this will be a quick reply: your ultimate question is irrelevant because it assumes that the toxicity warrants getting rid of it. I do not answer loaded questions principle because they never lead to a discussion. You only want to say your piece (as I said in my very first post) and that's it. You don't want to think of the possibility that your idea is stupid. If you did, you wouldn't start with "what's better. Text communication or voice communication. Which is less toxic?" You'd start with "is toxicity large enough to warrant such a drastic amputation of the game's systems?"

And when you just look at that question, the answer becomes blatantly obvious: no.

A8KkXovSOf1 votes

Edit: I say you alot i mean the community not YOU.

Its funny I mute all so I dont get banned lol. I am on a 2 week ban right now for minding my own game not talking for 40 min in norms blind pick. BLIND PICK! wtf kinda loser reports in blind pick. Dominion is gone where the fuck else do us drunks go to practice new champs? And ffs I am 100% unlocked everything in game. I could care less about the win. Im playing this champ that's to learn it. Do u see a team builder?

But a group of 3 trash talking me all game so I said like STFU and 2 more lines of nothing that bad something why are yall being so f#######y? we are winning dummies look at the map. that's it 3 lines in 40 min. I don't care what word i used I could throw N bomb if want to. 3 sentences vs 40 min of nonstop trash talking and campain to ban me for not talking. This game protects people who press the button and normal dudes like me that don't press it get out numbered.

I just don't like to be a bitch. If you do something today to make yourself ashamed you keep doing it until you forget what dignity is. I don't want to live my life like that. That's kinda what ment with wall of text. This snitch button is training people to degrade themselves over and over by being an adult snitching about nothing. That's what's giving people psychological effects like the other guy is talking about. But what they don't get is it's not the words, it's the CRY BUTTON.

I did some time. so this Example:

Jail or Prison you have an allowance that gives you 3 snickers bars a week. Random prisoner that's not your friend says "give me that" and you do now u got 2 bars a week. That has a huge psychological effect because you are shaming yourself. Shame is huge. Now you got 3 options: Do nothing= This lets you get away but only for one more week when he comes back. etc. forever, I'll call that shame tax.

Snitch= FULL shame because well snitching is for weak people. Now you know beyond a doubt all delusions about yourself are over. ALL dignity is gone now. No more looking in the mirror and being the same guy. You ain't flexin anymore going hot damn i'm a stud. It's just tears now.

Fight= A one time amount of physical pain and it does matter if you bruce lee that dude or get wrecked the outcome doesn't matter the result is the same. You remain You!!! while ending your mistake of giving that stupid canbar away. You get to feel good when you look in mirror.

You know what happens by degrading your self esteem and not fighting they come pillow then blankets and so on.

I know thats an extreme example. But its easy way of explain why these dudes might feel really down after 3 years of repeatedly giving candy bars away (words) to then go write a snitch note to daddy rito (reporting) to afraid to stand up and fight back for their own sanity because it causes them physical pain (getting banned and caring about it) (lol)

GET BANNED WHY GIVE A FUCK, IF YOU CAN SAY WHAT YOU WANT or even better TROLL HOW U WANT. news flash you won't play this game sooner or later ever again all the stuff that you grind for is for nothing more than the escape. You can't take your champ pool runes and rank to your next game obsession.

EddardStark841 votes

I have to agree whole-heartedly with you. It's now to the point that virtually anything you say to your team or team mates is "toxic". It's a competitive game and it brings out emotion in its players, especially when losing or losing very badly..there's a mute button..use it.

Silverthane3 votes

Riot always tries to water down the number "toxicity" in league truth is its a huge number compare the 8% they claim to be lol

I mean take a look at the video they made "portraying" their players. It how they wish it was but in reality its not even close to being like that. Even went out of their way to disable the comments!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FffGr3RlVxs

Estas Perdido2 votes

There's a mute option lol

TheVishual2 votes

{quoted}

After about over the 8,000 games played I am coming to the conclusion that chat should not exist. 100% in game chat should not exist for the sole purpose of flaming others or even typing. Pings offer great communication as is. Some stuff that should be added is when ults are on CD. It should be only about when objectives were taken and ping alerts. Primarily game focused . If you have seen the amount of times I was blamed for something out of my control or the enemy team typing "gg ez" is not a good experience in my book. If these are the kinds of players you say you want out of your game. If this is the sort of stuff you don't want happening. . Exactly. Chat overall should be removed and should implement and solely focus on the game only . I have been told multiple times to "Stop playing" "You shouldn't even be playing." "You are so bad" "Well here comes another loss"and even worse said to not only me but teammates as well. Now I am not saying its the whole community but at the same time I have seen bad behavior in 70% in my games. Riot claiming that have dropped 50% "toxicity" rate in ranked is a load of baloney.I have also seen good behavior as well but vary rarely. What are your thoughts?

Riot Lyte posts these studies so he doesn't lose his job...

The game is even more toxic than it used to be because players get punished for chat and not for actual griefing ingame which incites more rage than anything else

Who gives a fuck if someone calls you names? Just mute em. Ban the people who premade and grief, people who quit after 3 minutes cause they died once in lane, etc.

mogonk2 votes

Easy fix.

  1. Turn off all chat
  2. Mute your team at the start of the game

People like to say "oh well then youll be reported for failure to communicate", but I've been doing this for years and nothing has ever happened.

Ralanr1 votes

My jungler did this in ranked. It did not go well (he ganked when I was OOM).

Sr4nk Cray2 votes

3rd eye the problem is that they cater to kids. i agree though.

arcinex1 votes

you can drag the chat box off the screen.

A8KkXovSOf1 votes

Dude you are right. But that's not gonna happen because

  1. Game direction is: Grab a friend and hold hands. Solo Que never gonna happen. that dream is not in the vision for how the company thinks.

I am assuming they think toxicity will be solved through a self policing nanny east of the berlin wall style. Mothers report fathers, sons report mothers, sisters report brothers, brother just fucks up naturally and uses a bady-bad word deemed inappropriate by the state. The young receive protection and leniency because they will be molded to states desires and will eventually "Love their servitude" (Aldous Huxley) While they old must be separated and are incapable of adopting delusion as happiness. The young will know only what's in front of them and in their minds it will always be a norm and will assume it has always been the same. They will accept this doctrine provided by the state of weakness depending on daddy-state to hold them and protect them from harsh realities of the natural way of things. "they will ask for servitude and fight to maintain it." (AH) The old will make a mistake and be banned.

  1. For real tho fuck all this reporting bull shit. I am a full grown fucking man and don't want to report anyone. As a 29 year old I have played games online since idk diablo 2. Not one game had a tattle tale button and this is my first one I think. Why do I not know the answer to that? Because I have backbone and pride maybe a bit of self worth. I could careless and would not even know there was a snitch button in LOL if softy weirdos didn't tell me about it EVERY SINGLE GAME NO MATTER WHAT SINCE FIRST GAME.

Did someone call me a name? YA? AND? SO? WHAT?

Life is toxic let alone a game over the internet. I was a BLACKJACK dealer for 5 years. At the largest casino in california. My hands have personally been the instrument of financial destruction. I have taken homes. I have ruined families. I have caused Fathers to split town. I wonder how many suicides I have delivered. YOU THINK THESE PEOPLE HAD NICE THINGS TO SAY TO ME? YOU THINK I ENJOYED A REAL LIFE PERSON RUINED IN 5 MIN? Praying on a wet dream throwing 100 grand on the table.

These kids can't wrap the soft little heads around that. 20 year old adult males being "triggered" is fucking pathetic and disgusting. The number of males that complete the growth cycle without punching someone in the face or being punched in the face is mind boggling. I say that not as a tough thing but as a learning requirement of human beings. Why? "Every Time I got punched in the face I learned something. On the way home driving my car I would think to myself "Hey I was kinda being an asshole back there and I deserved it" " (Bill Burr) It helps humans learn humility and respect. Like the first time you get fired from a job because you are literally not smart enough to make sandwiches. Thats right kid I guess you dont got all the answers to Pepper Jack Cheese, Extra Mayo, 3 pickles, light sprouts I SAID LIGHT SPROUTS! ARE YOU STUPID? DO U SPEAK ENGLISH? That day is coming for you Xander, Byron, Kaylyn. Then let's talk about "trigger words" and being offended.

PATHETIC.

Do you understand that some of us that you're speaking to have straight legally killed people through a job, duty, mistake, car accident, home invasion, mugging, and others? I have almost. I smashed a dudes face with a maglight flashlight until his brain popped out the other side after receiving a gang beating in a park at 4pm on a thursday afternoon. He is a quadriplegic now for life. Shitting in a bag and talking through a machine until he rots away.

So no, I don't feel a compulsion to report some kid to a company that doesn't give a shit about me, because that is normal. Nobody cares. They should not care. I don't want them to care. I want them to leave me alone. I want them to be a normal company and not care, to give me the product that I fucking pay for and stay the fuck out my business. No matter what I am doing No matter what strangers do to me. No matter what "triggers" me. Its beyond me that they care about the people that don't pay them. It is the dumbest business practice I have ever heard of. FFS they all went to college, I have dropped out 4 times. WHY DO I NEED TO EXPLAIN THIS. I understand that other countries are different and backwards. I don't care about them. I like rated-R infact I pref rated-X. Singapore's retardation of human right brain thinking process is not our fault or concern in USA. Give them the pg-13. It's called the cost of doing business in a global market. One day A person who wants to make more money than you ever could will stop "going disney" and tap the market that has money. I hear pretty soon there will be 2/5ths of chinese Men not be getting married or having a kid. JUST A THOUGHT.

Skilled Theory1 votes

{quoted}

or the enemy team typing "gg ez" is not a good experience in my book.

But what if the opponent is playing as Ezreal and legitimatley had a good game?

Kagagiou1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Skilled Theory,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mBzXLvPE,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-03-01T16:27:26.974+0000)

But what if the opponent is playing as Ezreal and legitimatley had a good game?

Common situation: There is no Ez, only Vayne. Vayne : When did we start fighting beginner bots? Vayne : Hah, 1v5, Noobs! Vayne : GG EZ Vayne : I do love the Freelo.

Korillo1 votes

Never punish the 90% for the actions of the 10%

Linthe1 votes

Interesting post... There has been a pretty big chunk of toxicity in my games lately... I have resisted doing it.. But I may move to "mute all" as part of my initial in-game ritual.

Rossendale1 votes

Team chat should stay, but I wouldn't really care if they removed /all chat. 99% of the time it's used to flame/shit talk the other team anyway.

Fuaztin1 votes

Hots doesn't have all chat so all the toxic players turn on their own team. Hearthstone has no chat and you still see people playing paladin. Removing chat doesn't solve the problem.

No flash no life1 votes

I still rely on chat for a lot of communications ping simply cannot replace.

  • Discuss about itemization. If support isn't grabbing aegis then perhaps jg will.
  • Notify a few mins in advance regarding a gank so laners can control minion wave and avoid trading.
  • Ask if adc is a he or a she. It'll determine whether support is willing to die blocking Caitlyn ult or not.
  • Distract enemy team in the middle of teamfight after you die. So far, I find "I know your secret" most effective.

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