Sejuani Rework? She lost her identity.

ko36272··4 votes·1,737 views

Sejuani Sejuani is reworked in PBE server, and she is not Sejuani anymore that we knew. Her ult stuns only one champion now.

In these days there are some requirements for A class jungles. Those are clear speed and fighting power in early games. They can give team advantages for victory in early games already. However, every jungle doesn't have to follow the trend. Reworked Sejuani has targeting stun at e and more damage at w compared before. I think she can make difference in early games. She can gank better than before and have more hegemony in jungles struggle, but is that what we needed? Pantheon has the highest winning rate in this mete, but you should not rework Nasus to Jayce or Pantheon. Nasus is Nasus. He is strong at late games. We pick Nasus because of his own strength. That is enough. If late game mete comes, will you rework Pantheon to Nasus? I will gladly run away from Lee Sin at level 2 if Sejuani has her wide stuns. If Sejuani's winning rate is so low, than adjust her stats. Do not change her identity.

I don't like this rework. I've played Sejuani more than 150 games in ranked because I liked her late games. Amumu is reworked also but he became stronger in early games but he still keeps his identity. Why Sejuani(and Zac?) has to be changed? Now it is a completely different champion.

I think Riot have to investigate what users think before making such a big difference. This is too unilateral. Why don't you give us an option that we can get refund of our RP of Sejuani's skins? We lost our Sejuani and new champ whose name is Sejuani is released. I bought those skins because I liked Sejuani before rework.

12 Comments

1374344 votes

You prefer her entire identity to be land a great ult late game or else you contribute nothing to the team?

That is a terrible identity to have. I'd much rather prefer her being able to contribute more in the early game, gank more, and have more hegemony in jungles struggle (your words, not mine).

ko362721 votes

Even though A/W's best item is papa burger, A/W has to keep other options also. Than customers can choose. There are other champions who are weak at early games, such as Master Yi. If Master Yi does not gank your lane, it is the problem of the individual player.

ko362722 votes

If jungle wanted to participate in lanes at early games, there are so many other options already.

OtterlyLost2 votes

They butchered Maokai and Sejuani. I used to like playing both of these champions but now they're completely different. Maokai's main source of CC has been slowed a ridiculous amount and, honestly, its kind of pointless to even use it. If you dash into a teamfight, what are you gonna do? Before, you would ult and get a massive damage reduction for your team and then do a massive chunk of AoE damage when you deactivates it. His current ult, however, encourages him to not dive. Which was the entire point of the rest of his kit! And wtf are they doing with his E ability? At what point in teamfight is it going to be useful or relevant? Its not relevant now but before he had a massive ult and big engage and some AoE damage on his other abilities to make up for it. They literally took his identity and tossed it out of the fucking window. I'm so angry about what they've done to him, actually.

Sejuani herself is just flatly not Sejuani. Her ult is pitiful and the rest of her kit is meh at best. She only really functions if your ENTIRE TEAM is made up of melee bruisers. Before she had some form of peel and an amazing engage that felt SATISFYING AS HELL to land. Now she doesn't feel fun or engaging at all unless you're playing a melee champion and/or have a melee champ with you to help you do your damage. :/

Zac is the only saving grace of this rework and even then I hate it because they've taken a champion who was always fairly strong and made him stronger because Why not! Zac has a low playrate but he's never had a low winrate; he's consistently good and extremely obnoxious to kill. Out of the tanks that needed reworks or could have been reworked, I feel like he was the LEAST necessary. They aren't even doing any minor changes to other tanks, like Rammus or Malphite(both of which could do with some love and would have fit this rework perfectly).

This entire mid-season update feels incredibly half assed. :/ So far not impressed in the least and instead just majorly pissed that they're ruining two tanks I happen to enjoy playing.

Psykoh1 votes

I disagree besides too early to tell

Kilanost2 votes

This is what happened:

Riot promised a tank update to appease all the ADCs complaining about tanks. Then they started brainstorming and realized that tanks are much harder to rework than they thought. They had a deadline to roll out changes way before the summer split. So when it became crunch time, they just put out anything regardless of whether it was good or not.

A prime example is the sejuani passive only being able to be used by other melee champions. Does that feel like a proper finished product to anyone? I hope not. What it feels like is that they had an idea and said "wow this is strong if everyone can proc it....but the deadline is tomorrow. Lets just make it melee only."

Maokai ult is a bigger, clunkier, slower Nami ult. They took out what made him a good tank to do it, but forgot to add anything else in for damage mitigation while simultaneously making his passive heal significantly harder to proc. What is this a response to? People complaining he's too tanky. So now he has nothing in his kit that really makes him an effective tank while having all the shortcomings of a tank kit. His W speed is also ridiculous. Its so slow now people can walk/dash you into turret range in lane without a problem. Oh and they moved the % health damage from his root to his E.... An ability that doesn't get a lower CD as you level it. I think its 12 seconds. Maokai is dead when these changes go through.

Zac is the biggest offender in terms of ADCs complaining about the damage of tanks. Riot thought his kit was boring. So what did they do? They changed his q so that it only hits the first enemy in its path and then made it so you don't get the full benefit of the skill unless you find yourself another enemy to hit the 2nd half so you can smash them together. I watched 2 full game plays and this was only accomplished on an enemy CHAMPION once. 99% of the time, its just people nailing the first half and walking with the enemy champion like a dog ona leash till they walk away. Then there's his ult, which was fantastic. Now the PBE version is a total piece of shit. Here's proof: Using the ult removes movement impairing effects...BUT then zac has to sit and channel his ult for up to 2.5 seconds. So you give him movement impairment removal but then you make him sit there anyway. Zac is in no way stronger with this rework. Everything about his effectiveness is now so inconsistent I'm fairly sure this is going to end up in the growing pile of rework failures.

Sej is probably the best of the reworks but still not strong. The best thing about Sej outside of her ult was spamming slows on her e during combat to apply mass CC to the enemy team. This was fine when she was created, the problem was that being in combat long enough to make use of a skill like that doesn't work with damage being off the charts the way it is now. As a result, she became a one trick pony (her ult). Her new kit only has one slow and its tied to the ulti. The slow on her E was straight up the best part of her kit. Now 25% of her kit's use is dependent on getting tons of stacks on a single person before you can even use it. Braum's passive is about 10x better than this ability. They literally took the only champion that was in line with what they said they wanted (high cc and low damage) and removed all her consistent CC and reduced the CC on her ult while giving her passive proc the ability to do 25% max health in magic damage. So they essentially did the exact opposite. But just to make sure people wouldn't play her as a serious damage dealing champion, they removed the AP scaling to her W so even playing her that way isn't an option.

So basically the end result of the reworks is this:

Maokai: Formerly the best tank in the game in terms of damage mitigation and sheer difficulty to kill. Now has no damage mitigation, a slower, crappier nami ult with a root, damage that depends on people face checking the bush in lane without minions walking in first (sapling), a snare that has such a low transit time that it literally can hurt you more for landing it than it helps you in lane, ridiculous cooldown on his big ticket damage item. This is by far the worst of the 3.

Zac: Formerly the most complained about tank by ADCs in terms of damage. They changed his q so now you almost never are able to get the skill to work to its best. Took away his aoe slow with decent duration and made it only work on the first enemy hit (which is difficult because its a narrow skill shot now on PBE) then paired the full extent of the skill's use on the ability to be able to target another enemy (inconsistent). Then they made his ult this paradoxical piece of shit that removes movement impairing effects but then forces you to channel an ability for up to 2.5 seconds.

Sejuani: Formerly the CC queen of tanks who at best needed increased damage to jungle camps to be completely viable and in line with their aim of reducing tank damage while increasing tank CC/disruption/team fight ability. The rework removes her most consistent CC (the slow on E) and randomly made it dependent on stacking which requires the help of ONLY melee team mates auto attacks. The ability is dwarfed in effectiveness by Braum's passive. But then they gave her the ability to do up to 25% max health.

These reworks are an abomination.

OtterlyLost1 votes

{quoted}

This is what happened:

Riot promised a tank update to appease all the ADCs complaining about tanks. Then they started brainstorming and realized that tanks are much harder to rework than they thought. They had a deadline to roll out changes way before the summer split. So when it became crunch time, they just put out anything regardless of whether it was good or not.

A prime example is the sejuani passive only being able to be used by other melee champions. Does that feel like a proper finished product to anyone? I hope not. What it feels like is that they had an idea and said "wow this is strong if everyone can proc it....but the deadline is tomorrow. Lets just make it melee only."

Maokai ult is a bigger, clunkier, slower Nami ult. They took out what made him a good tank to do it, but forgot to add anything else in for damage mitigation while simultaneously making his passive heal significantly harder to proc. What is this a response to? People complaining he's too tanky. So now he has nothing in his kit that really makes him an effective tank while having all the shortcomings of a tank kit. His W speed is also ridiculous. Its so slow now people can walk/dash you into turret range in lane without a problem. Oh and they moved the % health damage from his root to his E.... An ability that doesn't get a lower CD as you level it. I think its 12 seconds. Maokai is dead when these changes go through.

Zac is the biggest offender in terms of ADCs complaining about the damage of tanks. Riot thought his kit was boring. So what did they do? They changed his q so that it only hits the first enemy in its path and then made it so you don't get the full benefit of the skill unless you find yourself another enemy to hit the 2nd half so you can smash them together. I watched 2 full game plays and this was only accomplished on an enemy CHAMPION once. 99% of the time, its just people nailing the first half and walking with the enemy champion like a dog ona leash till they walk away. Then there's his ult, which was fantastic. Now the PBE version is a total piece of shit. Here's proof: Using the ult removes movement impairing effects...BUT then zac has to sit and channel his ult for up to 2.5 seconds. So you give him movement impairment removal but then you make him sit there anyway. Zac is in no way stronger with this rework. Everything about his effectiveness is now so inconsistent I'm fairly sure this is going to end up in the growing pile of rework failures.

Sej is probably the best of the reworks but still not strong. The best thing about Sej outside of her ult was spamming slows on her e during combat to apply mass CC to the enemy team. This was fine when she was created, the problem was that being in combat long enough to make use of a skill like that doesn't work with damage being off the charts the way it is now. As a result, she became a one trick pony (her ult). Her new kit only has one slow and its tied to the ulti. The slow on her E was straight up the best part of her kit. Now 25% of her kit's use is dependent on getting tons of stacks on a single person before you can even use it. Braum's passive is about 10x better than this ability. They literally took the only champion that was in line with what they said they wanted (high cc and low damage) and removed all her consistent CC and reduced the CC on her ult while giving her passive proc the ability to do 25% max health in magic damage. So they essentially did the exact opposite. But just to make sure people wouldn't play her as a serious damage dealing champion, they removed the AP scaling to her W so even playing her that way isn't an option.

So basically the end result of the reworks is this:

Maokai: Formerly the best tank in the game in terms of damage mitigation and sheer difficulty to kill. Now has no damage mitigation, a slower, crappier nami ult with a root, damage that depends on people face checking the bush in lane without minions walking in first (sapling), a snare that has such a low transit time that it literally can hurt you more for landing it than it helps you in lane, ridiculous cooldown on his big ticket damage item. This is by far the worst of the 3.

Zac: Formerly the most complained about tank by ADCs in terms of damage. They changed his q so now you almost never are able to get the skill to work to its best. Took away his aoe slow with decent duration and made it only work on the first enemy hit (which is difficult because its a narrow skill shot now on PBE) then paired the full extent of the skill's use on the ability to be able to target another enemy (inconsistent). Then they made his ult this paradoxical piece of shit that removes movement impairing effects but then forces you to channel an ability for up to 2.5 seconds.

Sejuani: Formerly the CC queen of tanks who at best needed increased damage to jungle camps to be completely viable and in line with their aim of reducing tank damage while increasing tank CC/disruption/team fight ability. The rework removes her most consistent CC (the slow on E) and randomly made it dependent on stacking which requires the help of ONLY melee team mates auto attacks. The ability is dwarfed in effectiveness by Braum's passive. But then they gave her the ability to do up to 25% max health.

These reworks are an abomination.

This basically sums up my feelings on the tank rework. :/ Its half assed, lazy, and poorly handled. I'm still completely baffled that they didn't touch any of the other tanks either and I don't honestly feel like they fixed ANY of the problems that they had with the tanks they touched in the first place.

youthere1 votes

I feel the same way about Maokai.

Had a unique ult that made him standout, and.... replace it with a mass CC ult like every other champion has... cool...

midnight oil241 votes

But I mean, there would be no reason to pick another champ over the champ that reduces so much damage that your adc becomes much much weaker. He was super generalist because he could shut down the adc, something that every team comp has. That's not unique, that's the job of the tank, IMO. He just took tankiness to new heights with his ult.

youthere1 votes

And yet he only has a 12% pick rate, 2% ban rate, and just under a 50% winrate. Statistically there's no reason for him being reworked.

Can't wait to see all the support Maos that will come from this though.

midnight oil241 votes

They're reworking him because they wanted him to feel more unique. A tank haiving an ult that's basically just "tank better" isn't super unique, imo.

KoKoboto1 votes

12% pick rate because he's boring to play You can't deny he was a generalist and the best though

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