Shaco, a problem and a plea

yy367··7 votes·1,081 views

INB4 wall; TL-DR at bottom Shaco has problems. I really don't believe there's much debate to the subject. It feels like Riot has cornered Shaco so he can't see competitive play. Why is this? Why would Riot take such a unique character and remove them from high level play? I believe the issue is the false choices that his kit creates. Shaco's kit is... versatile... Blinks, CCs, nukes and free damage multipliers, oh my! Free damage multipliers have issues though, and are the core of Shaco's inability to be allowed to compete in my mind. Namely his passive, Backstab.

Think of your response to most other characters jumping on you. Kinda lines up into two main arguments right? If they are stronger duelists or fed, run. If the opposite, man up and fight. Shaco's kit kinda invalidates these choices. Backstab obviously makes the counter to Shaco's damage fighting him. But, his kit gives him a lot of dueling potential, creating an awful situation where both running and fighting are wrong decisions. Fighting would result in your demise, and running gives him a huge 20% boost to the final damage of his autos and skills. Take the three separate hypothetical situations, Shaco is stronger than you right now, Shaco is equal, and Shaco is weaker.

**NOTE, these situations are making assumptions based on the core functions and relations of Shaco's kit. There will be no numerically exact calculated situations between champions, as I feel Shaco's numbers and stats are too low currently due to these situations existing if his numbers were comparable to other assassins. **

Situation 1, Shaco has slightly (think one item's worth or so) more gold and experience than you. Fighting against Shaco is now a nightmare. Shaco's kit loves to duke it out. JTIB's cc and massive damage over time, in addition to having basically a 75% damage increase of an ult means fighting is pretty much not an option here. Unfortunately, running isn't looking too hot either. Facing a character with a low cd blink and on hit slows is already not a fun time, but the 20% boost to all damage means he might not be doing much less damage than if you had just sat there and took the beating. Overall, a pretty unfortunate situation.

Situation 2, Shaco has roughly the same gold and experience as you. Fighting is manageable, to a point. But, Shaco's kit really looks like one hell of a duelist's dream. JTIB's base max damage at level 1 is absurd for a single skill point. And few characters can compete with a flat 75% increase in AA damage output. Still really unfavorable, as with equal gold it's unlikely you can burst Shaco, and his dps likely far exceedes yours. This, is where running is supposed to be a pretty okay decision if the opponent is a better duelist. The opponent likely can't burst you with equal gold, and an auto champion will simply do less damage if he has to walk after you, allowing for a good chance of escaping. Backstab, combined with Shiv and Deceive, invalidate this. Shaco's kit has a pretty huge amount of stickiness, in addition to the massive boost in damage to punish you for running. Basically, a bad answer.

Situation 3, Shaco has slightly less gold and experience than you. Fighting is, of course, the go to here. Shaco's damage multipliers now work against him, offering him little base damages to combat you with. A duel in this situation will almost always be in your favor. Shaco pretty much can't fight you like this. Running basically puts you in what Situation 2 should be, a good chance of survival.

See a problem with this? Situation 2 is what I believe champions are balanced for, most of the decision making should be here. But Shaco's kit punishes you for both dueling AND running in a situation that should be where most of the champion counter play happens. This has led to Shaco's numbers being forcibly tuned to prevent this dominance. Unfortunately, by keeping his kit the same, they invalidated the decision making in Situation 2, Just in a different way. Due to tuning Shaco's numbers around the boost from Backstab, he loses duels with equal gold due to a lack of damage. He is balanced so his damage is reasonable WITH the 20% boost, and low without it. This prevents situation 2's unfair lose lose situation, but invalidates decision making by making, "Fight and kill Shaco," the right choice. Without Backstab, Shaco's damage is too low to duel, and if he can't win a duel, why run away?

My plea is this, please rework Shaco's passive so that he doesn't destroy decision making. Shaco's kit is already versatile, and this boost in damage forces him to either win way more than he should, or be tuned around it and lose more than he should. The running situation he is balanced around can cease to exist when he lacks the duelist threat to force an enemy to run. I love Shaco, but this lack of counter play should not be allowed to exist. He is instead relegated to the "get fed or die" group, and it's unfortunate for one skill to force riot to remove a character from being possible in comp play ala Evelynn .

TL-DR: Shaco's passive and kit invalidates decision making in a equal gold situation. So, he is kept in the ground to avoid this. And I'd like his passive changed instead.

What are your thoughts? Did I make any assumptions you feel are wrong? I'd like to create a discussion of ideas here and gather some attention, so please contribute! Ziggs

6 Comments

Ð É M Ø Ñ3 votes

Not to mention his ult is useless if you have red or blue buff. . . . or both. . . . oh and or Baron.

balbraaksel3 votes

Quite a few items as well. And the clone when he ults is predictable too where the true one is and which's the clone. And since Rek'Sai is played a lot I think that Shaco got nerfed indirectly with the global ult, strong duel potential and vibration detection underground that she has.

Narasimha1 votes

Actually Shaco doesn't do too badly against her. His clone actually makes footsteps so its possible for Rek to hit the wrong target, and her dueling comes from her Q, which causes the clone to explode early.

balbraaksel1 votes

Hm... Yeah. But when you're chased by multiple enemies it might just again be a poor situation for Shaco to be in.

ImHerVoice1 votes

Just leave shaco alone, I like him the way he is. If riot changes him he'll get gutted like eveyr other rework. nty. Leave alone.

DrugsForRobots1 votes

I agree with you, and wish this thread had more people talking.

Personally, I like the idea of Shaco dealing more damage from behind, and I like the idea that his unique weakness could be to fight him straight up. That said, his current kit does make his opponents' choices irrelevant most of the time.

As a Shaco main, I feel like his kit could offer more counterplay potential to his opponents. He's not the most mechanically challenging champion as it stands, though he could be.

Despite all this, he's not in the worst place at the moment. I understand why Riot's hesitant about working on him, he's got a lot of little problems - the kind that a mere numbers adjustment won't fix. I just hope someone, somewhere a Riot is taking notes for when they eventually do tackle our favorite clown, and that your post is among them.

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