Warwick Bandwagoners

CitizenToast·Dec 3, 2014·10 votes·1,651 views

Sure, a lot of people played Warwick before the new jungle item set and his ult was annoying, but it wasn't certain death for squishy champs. This is the excuse most people use to justify their abuse of his ridiculous damage output. Now it's a press R to kill the ADC/APC button. Anyone playing Warwick during this current patch is an unskilled player looking to win matches with an overpowered champ/build combo. Go ahead and deny it; you're probably one of them. Just had to say it.

14 Comments

Learn34Dec 3, 20142 votes

No, I don't feel he is. He wasn't OP before, he isn't now. The issue is just that the jungle is back to something around it's original state (in terms of how forgiving it is of low-sustain punks), which puts most of the folks that could burst down WW out of commission. WW hasn't become any more powerful than he was a few months ago, or a few months before that. People have just forgotten how to fight him, and some of the standard counters (AS debuffs a la LeeSin and Nasus , also item 3123 ) have been nerfed/removed. That does have an effect, but I swear <10% of the LoL population built , and both Lee Sin and Nasus needed nerfs more than they needed to remain counters to WW (although I don't think the AS debuff were what needed to get nerfed therein anyway) Solutions? Revert nerfs/removals. Ignore people who've forgotten how to play against him.

And no, I don't play WW but for the rare counterpick. Back in S1/S2, when not being able to gank pre-6 wasn't a big deal, I played him some, but I didn't jungle much and mostly jungled Mao when I did. S3 saw the rise of heavy aggro junglers, against which WW couldn't compete. By the time he had pulled of 1 gank, early aggro's would've pulled 2-4, and he couldn't keep up with the pressure. The last time I played WW was a couple months ago as a counter to a trynd top, and that mostly comes from being able to harass the Dumb Muscle with Q and having better innate sustain. That said, I couldn't kill him either (whoever blows their ult first in that match up loses.)

JillfingerDec 3, 20142 votes

People have just forgotten how to fight him

Please remind us then. Dont tell me its simply item 3140

Learn34Dec 3, 20141 votes

The same way you fight any melee carry. I'm serious here. WW is an old-world melee carry, from back when Magic-DPS builds were common. The solutions to WW are thereby the same as they are for every melee carry ever: kite him while his main combat steroid is up (AS buff in his case), apply hard CC and murder, gut healing (adios item 3123 ) and fight the hard way (more a tactic for opposing carry(ies)), this guy item 3075 , and/or mage-burst (from someone with significant CC and/or a way to backlash WW's on-hit focus, such as Malz and Annie, respectively). The only thing that doesn't work as well for WW is Thornmail (and even that depends on if he goes for item 3153 ), so instead you get Frozen Heart or Randuin's (not recommended due to hungering strike) when building defensive. Pick any of a number of lane bullies and you'll see a lot more success against him in top, where they can harass him far more effectively than they can in the jungle. When dealing with him in the jungle, treat him like you would any melee carry jungle (i.e. trynd, fiora, etc.). Riot's moved to skill shots for long range champs, so just stay out of ult range and harass. Alternatively, you can take any of a number of champs who can fight him head on (when played correctly): fiddle comes to mind, although Xin, Udyr, and other melee carry jungles could likely go toe-to-toe with him. The key here is that sustain beats raw damage in any sustained fight (pun intended). Their main weakness against WW in lane is removed in the jungle, where there are no minions to attack them when they jump on WW in retaliation for a Hungering Strike.

Playing the devil's advocate: if Riot wants to increase "counter play" for WW, they can add a ~.5s wind-up animation to his ult.

CitizenToastDec 3, 20141 votes

I almost agree. Warwick himself is not overpowered. It's his synergy with the new jungle items and other on-hit proc goodies that is. I was reading in another thread that ADC hyper carries are what's being played and pushed to the top tier. With Warwick being able to nullify your ADC with one ability, it takes the punch out of your team, makes it a 4v5 in many situations, or just plain zones the ADC out of the fight for fear of being ult'd.

I watched a higher elo match today where Warwick wasn't banned. The team with Warwick ultimately lost, which didn't surprise me; but entire enemy team was CC oriented and could shut him down. Not before he took the ADC out of the battle though, every time. Assassins string combos together to make kills, same with Mages. Warwick presses R and that's just dumb.

Learn34Dec 3, 20141 votes

The trade off is that WW is completely immobilized (and thus vulnerable) during the Ult. So long as your team is intelligent enough to pick a support with rapid-response CC (Lulu and Leona come to mind), he'll be knocked out of it before he can dish out his real damage. WW stopped being played as a melee carry back when because people realized that turning him into a walking ultimate was suicidal come team fights, and any suicidal strategy is ultimately sub-optimal. It's certainly overbearing against a team with no CC, but picking a proper balance of CC and damage (team comp) is part of playing this game (and the main reason I stopped playing blind pick).

As for his synergy with current jungle items, I just don't see it as superior to his old Magic DPS builds, which were never really a problem for me or the friends I play with. Devourer is probably better that old (and by old I mean S1/S2) Wriggles, but I really doubt it's actually better than Bloodrazor. Faster and cheaper certainly, but knowing whether or not it's better will require more analysis than I have performed as of yet.

Finally, just as itemization is a part of building your offense, it's part of building your defense as well. The vast majority of WW damage is magic, which leaves item 3155 / item 3156 as a strong alternative to item 3140 (yes that's a snarky pot-shot at Jillfinger's post above), and item 3026 counters suicide-WW for the same reason it counters assassins and burst-casters. The removal of item 3123 does present problems for other carries choosing to fight him, but they still have avenues to beat him. Sadly items are about all the end up mattering for true carries, as their play style inherently degenerates into right-clicking (kiting is a function of right-clicking) with a button press (WW, Trynd, alot of Marksmen) or two (Yi, Fiora, etc.).

Malix FarwinDec 3, 20142 votes

He is most definitely overpowered. He not only excels in the new jungle but one would believe that they created the new jungle specifically for him. self sustain so he has no trouble farming, new jungle item synergies well with his ultimate. He has the ability to get ahead of any jungle opponent matched against him with no effort. He doesn't even have skillshots. Once he is level 6 he gets free ganks. Even if everyone rushed QSS they would be behind in their own lane against their own lane opponents and get steamrolled.

Malix FarwinDec 3, 20141 votes

He is most definitely overpowered. He not only excels in the new jungle but one would believe that they created the new jungle specifically for him. self sustain so he has no trouble farming, new jungle item synergies well with his ultimate. He has the ability to get ahead of any jungle opponent matched against him with no effort. He doesn't even have skillshots. Once he is level 6 he gets free ganks. Even if everyone rushed QSS they would be behind in their own lane against their own lane opponents and get steamrolled.

Also you cannot compare WW before(which he was doing well before anyways) to now because the jungle and jungle items are completely different now.

Kitsune SalehDec 3, 20142 votes

he was OP before

AbsoluteSadmanDec 3, 20142 votes

they either want freelo, or got sick of getting their ass whooped by a warwick every time they tried to jungle with a fair champion.

CitizenToastDec 3, 20141 votes

"Fair" isn't really a term I find applicable to League. The roster of champions is constantly growing and evolving with each patch. It's a very dynamic playing field and balance is hard to find with so many options available. Riot does what they can to make sure that each champion sees some play because every champion has a fan base. This Warwick situation is just plain ridiculous though.

AbsoluteSadmanDec 4, 20141 votes

i think you can call any champion BUT warwick fair at the moment.

EljinDec 3, 20141 votes

I kind of feel bad for the people who liked Warwick before all this went down. (Riot can check my account, I do not own, nor have I ever played him.)

He is without a doubt in Crazytown at the moment in my level of play at least (for this reason or that, he's there.) and needs to be fixed in some way, but it really seems like they are destroying him. I see all these changes on Surrenderat20, and it looks like he's going to be dead as dead can be until he gets reworked...whenever.

SookoDec 4, 20141 votes

Lol, people can vote Negative with a serious look on their face?

CaptnJakSparrowDec 4, 20141 votes

There's this thing called item 3102 it does this thing called negate Warwick ult entirely. And, if you were already getting your banshee popped before warwick ult as an adc, or an apc. You deserved to die anyways.

Warwick became not so often played for the very issue he still has. He's an R button bot O_o. But, back then, people were smart and bought banshees and made warwick blow up in aoe death. I don't know if none of you really pay attention. But, uh, 80% of Warwick's damage output is magic. His passive is magic, his ult is magic, his jungle item is active. He only does like 100 true damage to you. And Botrk only does like . . . maybe 80 to 100 if he even gets it. So, a Banshees will not only either A: negate everything entirely so long as you're untouched before. Or. make it so you survive anyways. :|.

And, before you complain about having to buy it on an apc, or an adc. It was actually a pretty staple item on them back in season 2 specifically because of these issues.