Anivia doesn't fit in the game anymore.

KnifePlayer··5 votes·1,885 views

So recently i played Anivia and I really enjoyed her playstyle but hated playing her. So i found some reasons to that,

  • The fact that mana-regen has been nerfed, Anivia is very mana dependent so her early is horrible , you really need 2 mana items to be a bit stable in mana , what takes away some early liberty in early items

  • Her Abilities are very slow wich is horrible in this hyper mobile mid meta. Her A is slow and her ulti has a low range and area and a high cd for that kind of ulti. Let me explain. So her ulti is fine i think and the area is also good if the teamfight doesn't move, what barely happens nowadays , the fight moves a bit trough the jungle what makes her ulti a bit clunky i'd say, the cd is low but too high to easily change it's location in teamfight.

-Her wall is a bit out of place now. I love that ability but you just have to find a champion in mid who can't dash or flash trough it. This wall is useless in the meta. The only one really bothered are vel'koz, orriana and lux (and some others) without flash , altough they still can do their damage trough the wall and you have to play against them.

-Her passive ... considered op early but awfull late. Don't get me wrong i like it , but it's not that good. Aatrox has the same with more ,less cooldown and invulnerability. Zac has more but with a bit higher cooldown. Her egg takes pretty long to revive Anivia, and dies almost as fast as the real Anivia.

-Slow, so slow, she applies slows but the champions she slows will almost be as slow as Anivia. Again in this meta being slow is bad and anivia is slow.

So those are some reasons i found Anivia to be unfitting. She can be good and fun , but it is less rewarding and less exciting. I really expect some buff for low movement and high mana use champions(Ziggs,vel'koz, Anivia), and nerfs for the high mobility no mana champions(Zed, kata, akali). I feel Riot is rewarding the same game style too much and letting the less played champions behind

I know Anivia vel'koz and other mages have a high waveclear and high sustained damage, but they get destroyed early and late (before they can do their damage) by high burst champions who don't enable as much counterplay as the mages I already mentioned. Why would you play the fun champions if you will almost certainly play against the assassin that will destroy you.

note: i don't play on Lcs level or whatever i'm playing normals or solo queue ranked silver 1 , don't start talking about katarina, or idc who, isn't played in Lcs or by the pro's.

I hope you can see what i'm trying to say and won't hate on my because i am just trying to put in words what i think is wrong with Anivia and other champions and the meta.

Sorry if I made errors i'm not english , but i do it in english to reach more audience.

21 Comments

INTER5TELLAR4 votes

She works very well as a support in the current meta (opposed to mid). You don't spam spells quite as much, buying bursty items isn't quite as vital, and you focus on utilizing spells for team utility opposed to killing. Walls in botlane is often the finisher for a near-miss kill.

McAllister5 votes

Bot lane is the retirement home for obsolete midlaners, it seems.

Upvoted because this is actually a good idea.

Tsunday3 votes

Except Anivia was always labeled as a secondary support? It's like saying 'Bot lane is the retirement home for obsolete toplaners, it seems' because Leona is a primary tank and is seen a lot more as support than top/jungle these days.

McAllister1 votes

Wait... maybe I don't play enough, but I can't remember the last time I saw 1. Leona Top, 2. Leona Jungle or 3. Anivia... anywhere. If Leona was ever intended to be jungle/top, why can't she proc her own passive? That seems insane.

I'll admit I didn't know Anivia was support-tagged. Is this also true of Gragas, Malzahar, Azir, Annie, Lux and Vel'koz? Because I've seen them bot more often than I've seen Anivia... anywhere.

Tsunday1 votes

Gragas doesn't get played botlane neither does Malz or Azir unless you're in like wood 5. I've seen 1 Gragas support in my life (and I played 800 ranked games last season in the bronze tier where everybody uses AP Mage supports) didn't see a single Malz/Azir support. Lux is a secondary support, I don't know if Vel is technically listed as a secondary support but I'm 99% sure Phreak mentioned Supp Vel in Vel's spotlight and Annie doesn't have a secondary but I see her mid just as much as I see her support.

As for Leona, if you look in higher Elo you'll find there are plenty of players who 'carried themselvs to X rank' playing Leona top/jungle. There are people who carry themselves using Leona top/jungle but won't play her as support at all. As for her own passive it's because her secondary is a support and because she is a tank. Why the fuck does Blitzcrank have an ult that KSes farm if he was meant to be played as a support? In fact the only reason Riot calls Leona is a secondary support is because of her passive. You don't get a secondary support claim without something that could be considered an ally buff/sustain.

Going back to not being able to use her passive on herself. If Shen is a tank and not a support why the hell can Shen not ult himself? She's a tank the idea is that she goes in and initiates/protects her allies. All tanks are secondary supports for the team even if they aren't actual supports. It's their job to peel/protect/engage for their team.

McAllister1 votes

I saw Azir support yesterday, I played Gragas bot before the swig got a mana cost, my friend (admittedly makes weird choices, but) plays Malz support a lot. Vel's move is probably a symptom of mobility meta, which is half of why OP says Anivia isn't viable (and which hurts midlaners more than supports).

How many champions have an ability that can't be used in lane unless someone ganks for them? I'm going to go with none. People might be playing Leona top because a CC-heavy champ with high base values is nice to have gold on, but that's not an example of a champion moving from top to support, because there are few examples of that (if any).

Tsunday1 votes

I've seen NintendudeX jungle Leona a few times in ranked. He seems to be able to make it work decently, so we'll see what is going on.

A forum discussing an LCS game where someone picked Leona into Taric

Jungle Leona solo q : 3-0-28, 3-0-23. You're Next, LCS.

NintendudeX listing his SoloQ Leo Jungle scores on Twitter

This top lane tier list is mainly meant for Blind Pick Normals, although it probably works for Draft as well. Unlike many other tier lists, the order within a tier is alphabetical rather than from strongest to weakest......→ Tier 2... Leona

At the time Diamond player's (Dominion) Top Lane Tier List

While the link above doesn't pertain to SR it does pertain to Leona playing the Solo lane (as normally it's Solo Top and Duo Bot, I only see a jungler sometimes).

1861: Dyrus as Elise Jungle vs Leona – S5 Preseason Ranked Challenger Gameplay

Challenger Level Leona Jungle play

She was a lot better in like Season 3 but she was played a lot as a Jungler in general.

Well, considering she's not a Fighter/Tanky DPS. Unless you consider Amumu or Rammus DPS :P

Morello describing her role as similar to Amumu/Rammus on top of the fact that she was actually shown in a duo lane with Morg in her spotlight (as well as a solo lane as top against Vlad).

Leona is a bit special because she’s our answer to a pretty popular fan request; a female tank! I think a good place to start is to answer “what exactly does ‘tank’ mean to us at Riot?”

· Starts and initiates teamfights (usually via CC). · Soaks up damage. · May peel dangerous attackers off other vulnerable team mates. · Presents itself as an attractive target by causing long-term “threat” as the fight continues.

That is Riot's definition of a tank she fits this definition better than their definition of support.

How many champions have an ability that can't be used in lane unless someone ganks for them? I'm going to go with none.

If you had read my post before I did mention Shen's ultimate was an ability he can't use for himself in lane. Yeah he doesn't need a gank to use it, but it doesn't help his lane at all (in fact it takes him far away from his lane allowing his opponent to push his tower)

How many champions have an ability that can't be used in lane unless someone ganks for them?

Kalista doesn't have to bind to the support.

but that's not an example of a champion moving from top to support, because there are few examples of that (if any)

Leona came from a time before supports were a thing. She was considered a tank the same way that Amumu and Rammus was. Same with Taric, Alistar, Blitzcrank. All of the tank supports before Braum (Thresh is labeled a fighter because of his innate damage) were from before an era of supporting. They got moved from the 'tank' role to the 'support' role because of the way their abilities worked. Someone like Mundo stayed top because he had good AoE waveclear and because he was more focused on tank stats and tank steroids than he was focused on the CC. Someone like Taric or Blitzcrank made it botlane because while they had tanky stats/abilities they had proper CC for their carries and in Taric's case he had himself a heal. It is the exact same thing as people bringing midlaners bot. They are considered strong but the idea is that at the end of any given game only so many kills happened, so many minions spawned, there is a finite amount of gold. You want to funnel that gold as efficiently to your teammates as possible. A support like Annie/Morgana has a lot of utility in their kit and happen to be quite useful without needing large amounts of gold. Vel'Koz's passive puts him botlane. Lux's CC/Shield with her good base stats. It's not just because they're immobile mages (because let's not get into how both Gragas and Azir aren't really 'immobile') it's because of how much gold their kits need and how it can increase their overall damage output if the team needs damage > tank and you have an APC who doesn't need gold to survive. Tibbers stun will always be useful whether Annie has 1 item or 6.

INTER5TELLAR3 votes

I used to play craploads of Anivia supp in season 4. She works really well at it, but you need to let your ADC know if you die to STICK AROUND because the enemy laners will stay on your egg. So fun baiting out thirsty ADCs with that passive tho.

Tsunday2 votes

Honestly you should always stick beside your lane partner. I watched an LCS game the other day (it was a week 1 game I actually believe) in which the support had got caught out in the enemy's botlane bush and their ADC went all in on the enemy Graves even though I'm pretty sure the ADC was a behind Sivir. The caster mentioned that Sivir knew she was going to lose the trade, that Graves would out damage her but by going in on Graves she successfully got her support out of a bad place and saved her lane.

If the enemy goes for your lane partner whether you're the ADC or the support you should always back them up. If you just let your lane partner eat harass and don't trade back you're pretty much saying 'fine enemy botlane you can win the lane'.

KnifePlayer1 votes

I also tought of putting her bot , it would be easy to use her support potential as it comes naturally with her i think. But it would be sad to see her mid role overtaken by her support role, because she almost has a as great mid potential that is now so hard to use. The mid mages are slowly getting pushed to the bot support role (syndra rarely ,lux, vel'koz and annie are some examples) and that leaves the mid only for assassins.

Leti the Yeti3 votes

i won a 4 v 5 all thanx to anivias big ass wall saving lives and isolating kills and wave clear saving towers and AoE in general to compensate for our lack of damage sources

mvp ice bird

Icy Auron3 votes

I can't even begin to describe how wrong you are. I'm sorry to be rude, but I couldn't even bring myself to actually read your post just because of how hard I was laughing at the title.

Anivia scales harder than almost every other champ in League of Legends, you can't expect to start running train at level 6. You need to focus on getting 3-4 items first. She has insanely powerful CC and utility in addition to two 100% AP ratios. This means that even if she gets behind, she can still benefit the team, whereas Zed can't. She has low MS, so get MS to compensate. Since she doesn't go for level 3 kills in most games, get MS quints and Fleet of Foot. Cover your weaknesses instead of getting 15-20 AP, which does next to nothing late game. Forget the meta, make logical decisions (get some defense and MS, glass cannons are usually worthless late game).

After Fizz was nerfed, she lost her only hard counter. She can even lane Kassadin, and his entire kit was designed to fuck with her.

KnifePlayer2 votes

I know I migt be wrong and you aren't rude, rudeness is how you say things and what you said wasn't rude in my eyes.

You say she needs 3-4 items first , true but often the champions now or will kill you or try to negate your farm, negating anivia her farm is hard as she has good waveclear , but her mana costs and cd are igh early what gives you the choice of farming with less poke and defence or more centered about poking far away, you could autoattack but in this context you will get killed if you poke this way. The midlaners now do the exact opposite , poke hard ,farm good and kill early , if they don't get that in your lane they will just roam something Anivia can't do as easily. Ok she pushes the lane when the enemy roams , but it often won't be enough as , you might be ganked, have no mana or the enemy returns to early. But even if you succeed and push the tower enough, your enemy might have some kills what wont make it easier on you

If she falls behind she migt have good scaling and utility but it wont help your team much as you might be picked out.

I might be wrong on Anivia , but i do think assassins are getting too much love (especially zed who offers little to no counterplay) and mages are just getting left behind ( who are just too easy to counterplay now)

Icy Auron2 votes

Zed is one of the easiest lanes for Anivia, but before I get to that, let me preface it by saying that the only thing that's making Zed too good is the ability to blink back to his ult's shadow. He already has his W, so he gets three Flashes, and the fact that he can just go back to where he used his ult completely negates the weakness of having to go into melee range in the first place. If he couldn't return to his ult's shadow, he'd be 100% fine.

Zed has no hard CC. Even if you can't take the Zed in lane (and he isn't a very good laner, especially pre-6), research Eggnivia TP. I'll explain it for you, but you should really look a video about it up. If you click TP before you go into egg and DON'T get hard CC'd (stunned, knocked up, etc., none of which Zed has), you'll continue to TP. If Zed ults you and you KNOW you're gonna die, TP to a base tower, and there's nothing he can do to stop you. Unscrambled egg!

Aside from that, Zed isn't that bad. They always build glass, so they don't scale unless they get crazy fed. He only deals physical damage, so getting Zhonya's after RoA and Chalice/Tear helps a lot, not to mention stops his ult yet again with its active. Zed has no range aside from his shuriken, and Anivia has a lot of range; only Annie has a higher attack range in mid lane. I almost always have the highest CS in the game, even when I lost lane.

Assassins are being nerfed left and right. After Fizz got his long-need, much deserved nerf, Anivia lost almost any hard counters in her lane. Only Galio can completely stop her, and he's almost never picked, much less as a mid laner and not a support.

One of the biggest problems I see with people in this game is that they expect to have carry damage after one item, if not sooner. This is ridiculous, and because you have mana costs, you need to do something for it. Anivia should have item 3027 every game, no exceptions. After that, possibly even before the item 1026, if you're behind, you need to get item 3028 or item 3070, depending on their team. I usually get fully upgraded item 3020 with Alacrity before moving on. From here, usually item 3089, but if I'm losing, I go for item 3157 or item 3001, again, depending on the lane. This is actually a pretty quick core build. A lot of champs need to get three items before they can start playing like themselves (any marksman, any melee ADC, any support), and Anivia only needs two, not counting boots. This isn't unreasonable to require every game.

Lugg2 votes

I think she is still viable. I do agree that her wall needs a serious buff since most champs can negate it anyway. At least make it similar to Yasou's Wind Wall.

Icy Auron3 votes

Her wall's fine. The problem is rampant mobility. As a slight compensation, if you think she needs it (which I disagree with), here's a minor buff that I think we be interesting, and hopefully promote the fact that Anivia's supposed to be tanky for a mage, and get people to build her as such:

Every level of W increases her egg's armor and MR by 5 (5/10/15/20/25). This is in addition to her natural level bonuses.

This would make her egg virtually unchanged early game, when it's still very useful, but would allow it to scale into late game team fights, requiring people to demote more time and damage to kill you.

mvargus2 votes

I played a game last night with an Anivia. I was running a Sejuani jungler and after my second pass through the jungle Anivia would often come by as I was bashing on our blue buff asking if she could have it. I had no problem with that and she'd grab it and head back to the midlane as I checked bot or dragon depending on where the game was. It made a huge difference in her growth and later in the match she saved the team multiple times with well placed walls that stopped our opponents from either escaping or from charging us while we retreated after taking a turret.

Good Anivia players will find synergies with the team and good teams are willing to allow Anivia to claim blue buffs as needed so that she has the extra mana she needs in mid-game.

She's probably not the best for solo-Q as too many teams won't know how to fit her in, but if the team doesn't freeze her out, she adds a lot.

AnOstrichWithPMS1 votes

its actually top lane is the place where all unviable picks go to stomp on melees

Icy Auron1 votes

Anivia would be terrible top lane. She can only take Darius and Riven. Everyone else would crush her.

The Stoic Hero1 votes

I have been playing a lot of Anivia support, and it is really quite fun. I take Clarity for her mana issues and I build AP/Tanky. I start Doran's Ring, and first get Sightstone. Then I build Sheen and boots of mobility, then build the Sheen into a Iceborne Gauntlet. I usually round out a Liandry's Torment for mid-going-into-late game, and finish with whatever is dependent that particular game.

With this, you have slows for days, incredible peel, and enough mana to get the job done. I anticipate where my opponent is going to be, so that eliminates most issues of slow spell speed, and my build allows me to put Anivia's slows to good use.

I think Anivia is really strong right now, just a lot of people do not realize it. She counters Assassins if you can get them to over-commit under tower while you have passive. Her only issues really are some clunky animations and her Q being bugged visually sometimes. Also, I avoid Lichbane, as it has a dismal win rate, and Zhonya's Hourglass, as it does not synergize with Anivia's kit well.

She is a support that can carry, and can still be a viable mid laner, just one that is more particular with their casts and not spamming, which seems to be the flavor of the season.

A0 SHIN1 votes

Anivia is in a weird spot right now. I think overall she's balanced. When played well she can hold her own against the meta. She just doesnt deliver on her gameplay fantasy (or w/e riot would like to call it) as well as she could. Her kit has what it needs to be rewarding and satisfying to play, but there are things keeping that from happening. Her wall is a great ability which is really fun to use, and her Q/E chill effects are really fun to use, but at the same time, her mana costs are frustrating and her non existent movement speed, slow even by immobile mage standards, is tedious. With that said, I think what she needs is number tweaking and maybe slight adjustments to her E to shape her playstyle to fit modern league. Right now she's balanced off of ridiculous damage on very hard to hit and high mana cost spells with high impact /if/ you're successful. What Rito could do is nerf her damage on Q and or E and buff her mana costs, projectile speed/cooldowns, and utility. Sending out your Q on Anivia right now often times is better for the enemy than it is for you. Champions with high mobility will use it as an opportunity to dodge and outtrade you every time. This forces Anivia to play passive and NOT try to trade in lane, which is boring for both people. If the damage on Q was reduced and the projectile speed increased/cooldown decreased/mana cost decreased it would allow Anivia to send out her Q more often with less repurcussions if she missed. So people that play against her have to dodge more/faster, but getting hit wouldnt be as painful. It would decrease her burst, but at the same time I think it would make her much more fun to play without changing her overall balance. Also, I dislike the play pattern with her E-R combo. I feel like having such a strong targetted nuke post-6 does her more harm than good. If the E was made into a skillshot it would open new possibilities for riot to buff other parts of her kit (range, mana costs, movement speed, etc..) Not to mention it would /feel/ better. Adding more incentive to hit Q/use wall to manipulate the enemy into your combo post-6 as opposed to just getting in range to E-R. This consequentially would increase Anivia's skill expression by a lot which riot seems to be aiming for in newer champions.

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