TIL: Lee sin has a 49% win rate in plat+, even after you play 125+ games with him.

Z Champs Only·Jun 4, 2016·9 votes·1,473 views

This may not be a popular opinion but the blind man could use some buffs. Right now if you want to play lee sin you feel punished for even selecting him.

If you play Aurelian Sol 125+ games you have a 59% win rate. If you have played Gragas, a champion who's win rate is 47%, over 125+ games you are rewarded with a 55% win rate on average.

Ever since the ninja nerf to lee sin's sustain in the jungle. (stopped allowing smite to leach life from monsters through spell vamp) It is hard to gank with healthy hp without taking red pots, instead of refillable potion.

I just think the blind man could use some love.

28 Comments

QuephaJun 4, 20165 votes

And he's still a common pick in pro games and a respected pick in high tier games. A lot of people that play him, even among the devotees that play him a lot, are just not good at using him.

Z Champs OnlyJun 4, 20161 votes

Even if he's a common pick, it doesn't even mean he's good. Even Pros who play lee sin, the godlike champion can't maintain a win rate in pro play above 50% in the LCS

QuephaJun 4, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Even if he's a common pick, it doesn't even mean he's good. Even Pros who play lee sin, the godlike champion can't maintain a win rate in pro play above 50% in the LCS

And yet I still trust their judgement more than your's.

Z Champs OnlyJun 4, 20161 votes

True :3

Sire HippingtonJun 4, 20163 votes

and op lucian had a 27% winrate at msi, proplay has usually not a high enough samplesize for reliable stats. Usually the fact that a champ is picked in proplay regulary hints that the champ, if properly used, is on the strong side.

Sire HippingtonJun 4, 20161 votes

it's less that the people who use him aren't that good(though thats true to some extend aswell), but that the teams are not good at useing lee. Lee is mostly about early agression, and you need your entire team to really pull that off and mostly to keep the snowball rolling. If lee gets his lanes ahead and they don't convert the lead, it's of little use, as lee himself will drop rather hard later on. His winrate per gamelength drops really hard past 20 min. Also, he thrives in split fights/skirmishes, which is much harder to execute as a team, especially later in the game, than a 5man deathball or siege comp.

Urgot doggy doggJun 4, 20163 votes

NO NO NO NONO NO NO AND JUST NO FUCK THE MORON BLIND THAT RUINED ALWAYS LCS AND HE IS STILL one of the mod popular champs rework or nerf him even more but never buff the cancer which ruins champion select

Z Champs OnlyJun 4, 20161 votes

Why it's statistically evident that he sucks. I'de be down for a rework. He has too high of a barior for entry.

Urgot doggy doggJun 4, 20162 votes

he is still picked in the lcs he is toxic and if he gets more viable he'd be in every game again,plus there are other champion which sucks

BluePolarizerJun 4, 20161 votes

yep you're right if a champ appears once in the LCS they should be nerfed into the ground.

LankPantsJun 5, 20162 votes

He's also the most picked jungler in the game and has been for 4 years now. The last thing the game needs right now is more Lee Sin, we already have to deal with enough cancer champs in the meta as is.

BloodyTomponJun 5, 20161 votes

You. I like you. You have a habit of writing ~~things I agree with~~ very logical things.

MunchCrunchLunchJun 4, 20161 votes

lee sin is the kind of champion that is strong but weak. lee sin is all about going in and kicking a carry into his team. but thats really hard to do. again riot said things like poppy ult or lee sin ult will have low winrates just because.

Darkslayer85Jun 4, 20161 votes

Belind.

KONO RUBICK DAJun 4, 20161 votes

nop

A Basic IslandJun 4, 20161 votes

The boards will ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS consist of bronzies that will get shit stomped by lee, zed, and yasuo for eternity. The boards on average are just insanely retarded and just doesn't know how to play vs bad champs.

No joke, the boards could lose to lee sin at lvl 3 while they're 18 and 6 items.

Z Champs OnlyJun 4, 20161 votes

This may be true was worth a shot, while my favorite champion feels dead. Maybe it's time to move to overwatch after all.

DealthJun 4, 20161 votes

This man has restored my faith in humanity.

As someone who has 1000 Lee Sin games I agree he needs buffed. I think increasing his slow on his E from 20-60% to 40-80% would give him some utility and help out his team fight capabilities.

Z Champs OnlyJun 5, 20161 votes

Amen!

AbyssphereJun 4, 20161 votes

Eh. I agree his stats suck (and he possibly sucks in general), but you've got some questions to answer before you buff him:

Are you OK with buffing a common pick in competitive play who is well-known for crowding out other choices? Lee is already in the top 5 competitive junglers and Nidalee and Kindred both just got nerfed.
Can you be confident that Lee Sin players, despite being experienced, aren't just picking him in bad situations? Lee is the sort of champion where a main of his will play him in every single game, even into wildly unfavourable matchups and teams he has no business being on/against. He's played 8k games this patch against Nidalee despite being countered by her - maybe Lee players could stop first picking him when counters are up, or not pick him into counters?
Does Smite not triggering Spell Vamp really make much difference? If he goes Krugs > Raptors > Red and smites Red (430 true damage) with his W on, he heals 22. That's not making the difference between a low and high health clear, and beyond that point he doesn't notice the drop in sustain at all. Maybe he's weak, but is this really why?

Z Champs OnlyJun 4, 20161 votes

He may be a competitive pick, but I'd argue atleast in NA, he's not contested. Some pros don't even play him. Plus his win rate in the LCS is sub 50 as well.
If you check champion.gg, lee sin has so rates that are negative even to champions that he so called counters.
This was just kind of annoying to me personally as the mechanic was helpful but not gamebreaking why remove it.

LankPantsJun 5, 20161 votes

Plus his win rate in the LCS is sub 50 as well.

I'd appreciate you at least look this up before posting complete and utter bullshit.

NA SpS: 8 wins, 9 losses NA SpP: 2 wins, 0 losses NA SuS: 1 win, 0 losses

EU SpS: 16 wins, 17 losses EU SpP: 2 wins, 2 losses EU SuS: 6 wins, 4 losses

Total: 35 wins, 32 losses, 52.24% WR>50%

More importantly, look at his LCK results.

LCK SpS: 12 wins, 3 losses LCK SpP: Unpicked, only 3 junglers saw picks so this isn't a fault of Lee. LCK SuP: 1 win, 0 losses

Total 13 wins, 3 losses, 81.25% win rate.

So basically, Lee having a sub 50% win rate in competitive play is complete BS.

This was just kind of annoying to me personally as the mechanic was helpful but not gamebreaking why remove it.

Because if it was left in Chilling Smite would proc Runeglave.

Sire HippingtonJun 4, 20161 votes

Lee is one of those champs that many players won't play optimally even with 125+ games. And mostly, he's the kind of champ that only solocarries a game if he gets really hard fed. Playing a lee well as a TEAM is rather difficult, as splitfights/skirmishes are harder to execute on as a team than 5man deathballs or siegecomps.

Jaygo41Jun 4, 20161 votes

"He has too high a barrier for entry, rework him"

all i read was "He's too hard, make a champion previously hailed for having a high skillcap into something simple, like volibear!"

The game has only been getting easier, don't make it worse by reworking a champ that people have played thousands of games on and REMAINS BALANCED, despite what the circle jerk will tell you.

This champ isn't yasuo, a hyperscaling monster in both the early and mid game, lee has CLEARLY defined strengths and weaknesses. It pisses me off when people try to say that he's imbalanced or he's overpowered or poorly designed. He does what he's supposed to and has a lot of room for creativity. His creativity requires high mechanical skill and takes practice. Pretending he doesn't is ignorant

YodzeityJun 4, 20161 votes

He still has the most quickest abilities ever and due to that I will never accept him being weak

Guy Fox TeemoJun 5, 20161 votes

Only one of his abilities is a skill shot and its average in speed? What are you talking about?

KelvinwopJun 5, 20161 votes

Actually, according to Na.gg.op, His winrate is actually okay if you play him 'correctly' or whatever that means. https://imgur.com/a/wBP3x

BloodyTomponJun 5, 20161 votes

Lee is expected to have a low win rate. He has a very large skill ceiling/gap between high low experienced players (much like Azir) which makes him difficult to balance. Another thing to consider is Lee has no weakness . As a generalist he is quite consistent. Combined with Lee being better in co-ordinated play and you have a champ that never disappears completely from the pro scene.

Riot can't buff him without breaking Pro games and won't buff him without getting a clearer direction on what he should be strong and weak at.