Master Yi

Shleelpboy·Apr 22, 2018·4 votes·1,383 views

Why the fuck master yi has true damage and now you just stack it with fucking conqueror tell me?

15 Comments

Ben SwoIoApr 22, 20181 votes

Who cares. At least he isn't runnin around two shotting people and then walking through any fuckin wall he wants like Kayn .

MrDrBuddApr 22, 20181 votes

He needs to walk through the wall to even get to you so he certainly cant use it as an escape as well.

TehNACHOApr 22, 20181 votes

Because he's an old style melee carry where the design thinking was that to make up for his lack of range, he needs to be capable of hitting you much, much harder than any Ranged AS comparisons.

SEKAIApr 22, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Because he's an old style melee carry where the design thinking was that to make up for his lack of range, he needs to be capable of hitting you much, much harder than any Ranged AS comparisons.

Yi is recorded to be the #76 champion out of the current 140 in terms of damage dealt, which is lower than 16 out of all 17 ranged ADC champs in the game barring only Kalista (who had been nerfed into oblivion mostly due to the unbalanceable nature of her overloaded kit).

Just saying.

TehNACHOApr 22, 20182 votes

Then all the more reason he needs built-in True Damage on top of Conqueror

Just saying.

I'm really not sure what you're trying to prove with this statement. Old gen melee carries were given a lot of free steroids because the designers knew that without, or even with them that melee carries aren't able to do comparable damage to their ranged brethren. Giving me statistics that Yi underperforms in statistical damage both proves this point that melees are at a disadvantage and need extra compensation AND justifies the existence of Yi's true damage and Conqueror's bonus.

SEKAIApr 22, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Then all the more reason he needs built-in True Damage on top of Conqueror

Just saying.

It just means Ranged ADC and Supp's power should be tuned down.

Why do you think we have power-creep ourselves into the game's current state in the first place?

Remember the days when 'damage dealt to champs' was capped at around 30k being about as high as you can possibly go in a normal match and 10k or so was the average? Sure HP stacking made many matches almost unplayable back then but you still gotta admit now that 30-40k is the average and goes to an upward of 60-80k just on 'damage dealt to champ' alone is utterly ridiculous.

I do think we've reached the point that simply adding more damage is not going to fix anything beyond breaking more things.

TehNACHOApr 22, 20181 votes

While I agree with the premise that ADCs and especially supports need to be toned down, I don't agree with how you got to that conclusion from Master Yi's underperformance.

Furthermore, you're going to have to give much more substantial evidence of exactly what you're saying. Anecdotes, especially unverifiable ones, aren't exactly the tightest and most secure arguments.

And again, old generation champion. Yi has these steroids because he was made a million years ago, he's not the result of damage creep. If anything he's actually kinda the cause.

SEKAIApr 22, 20181 votes

{quoted}

While I agree with the premise that ADCs and especially supports need to be toned down, I don't agree with how you got to that conclusion from Master Yi's underperformance.

Furthermore, you're going to have to give much more substantial evidence of exactly what you're saying. Anecdotes, especially unverifiable ones, aren't exactly the tightest and most secure arguments.

And again, old generation champion. Yi has these steroids because he was made a million years ago, he's not the result of damage creep. If anything he's actually kinda the cause.

True damage is introduced to give some levels of consistency to one's level of damage. Because it does exactly how much it's written, and bypassing almost the entirety of item balancing, and supposedly easier to work with.

That's why it's put on champions who are meant to be a guaranteed threat of sort if they're overlooked by the enemy but also using true damage as a cheap way to keep them in check without needing to delve into items for champs like that every single time (as Riot has figured they're probably more likely to be troulemakers); at least that was the idea until ofc Riot completely forgot about it and botched the balance completely by putting it on everybody and have a ton of them scale (and not just for specific and very specific picks, with respect to the true damage and scaling true damage, like intended).

Yi's underperformance is not because he doesn't do enough damage. Yi underperforms now because Yi is made to be incredibly unsafe and very conditional but in exchange he does tons of damage, which pales to the current climate as other people have become too safe while doing their damage as well as the fact everybody now does damage several times fatter than we always do.

Yi isn't the cause of damage creep, unless you believe the notion of doing damage is the beginning of damage creep. Damage creep started when we start using damage to balance against damage as a go-to solution ("someone is having 48% win rate so let's buff their damage first", for intance), and whenever it started, it definitely didn't start with Yi.

TehNACHOApr 22, 20181 votes

This and that are a lot of really tangential premises. It's not that I disagree with any individual premise, it's that, again, I don't see how you go from Yi's binary nature to Supports and ADCs need to be nerfed. Two totally different problems tangentially related by damage potentials of the carries, since we could be in a meta where ADCs are non-existant and Yi will still be binary.

I really don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth that doing damage is the beginning of damage creep, but let's pretend for a moment that is what I said:

Damage creep started when we start using damage to balance against damage as a go-to solution

Given that Yi literally has a steroid to artificially inflate his damage to compare to other damage dealers, wouldn't you be proving your strawman of me?

SEKAIApr 22, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Given that Yi literally has a steroid to artificially inflate his damage to compare to other damage dealers, wouldn't you be proving your strawman of me?

All AA mods, all kinds of steroids, and basically all damage spells in this game are damage creep to you then, given they all inflate a champion's damage capabilities beyond their base stats as a DAMAGE SPELL SHOULD DO, which comes back to my "unless you believe the notion of doing damage is the beginning of damage creep".

And it's not like Yi is the first ever champ to possess steroids, given many champs in the original line-up as well the the first champion ever designed in League, being Singed, also possess steroids. So even forgoing the obvious flaw in the rationale that implies doing damage itself is the beginning of damage creep, that statement about Yi being the cause can't be right in the first place.

And ofc, that premise is false, because doing damage itself, or possessing higher damage or lower damage (in exchange for other pros and cons) due to whatever reason that justifies the property, is not the beginning of damage creep, but simple and fundamental game design 101 or else a game literally could not exist.

Damage creep happens when we pretend scaling up the damage is a magic pill, and ends up skyrockets the entire game's damage potential like an infinitely recurring Vlad passive as the balance process goes on (easily observed from the significant inflation of the damage one can do over a match over the years). It's an symptom born from a certain mindset, rather than the results of merely allowing damage and different champion having different damage potential in the game.

SEKAIApr 22, 20181 votes

Without Conqueror, true damage constitutes about 10% of Yi's total damage output even with all other sources of true damage included (red buff, smite etc).

Conqueror is a much bigger issue because it alone elevates that to an average of 30% or so.

ShleelpboyApr 22, 20181 votes

just get rid of the true damage

TehNACHOApr 22, 20181 votes

Yeah, no.