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How Riot actively destroys Twisted Treeline (Discussion about the new quest-feature)

dinmammahettepat··65 votes·2,747 views

Earlier this year, in the beginning of season 7, Riot released the flex queue for 3v3 making it so that everyone could play ranked 3v3 and not only ones that had a full team. This was probably the first noticable attempt Riot had made to push the general playerbase to at least try it out ever since they went from the old Twisted Treeline to the new one. (Like seriously, the last patch they even touched Twisted Treeline on was 5.11) I don't have any statistics on how this flexqueue affected 3v3 but in my experience there are more players playing 3v3 now than before.

Now let us dive into the topic of this discussion; why do Riot actively exclude 3v3 from the quest system? There are a lot of people in the 3v3 community that exclusively play Twisted Treeline and doesn't care much for 5v5 at all and making quests that, as an example, says "Win five PvP Summoner's Rift games" or "Win four Summoner's Rift games with 100 minion kills" it really excludes a whole community inside the game and I think this is the opposite of what Riot should do. Riot should rather encourage people to play 3v3 than to force away players from it.

Please consider us next time Riot,

Regards, dinmammahettepat

56 Comments

Kuronii Lumiira10 votes

You ask this when Riot has already destroyed Dominion, even though there was a dedicated community for it, and they were very outspoken against its removal.

Riot's stance on this is pretty much "We don't want to put forth the effort to support a game mode that won't make it to the Esports scene, where we make all our money, so we're going to remove it. Why expend resources to maintain a 'dead' game mode?"

Edit: Basically, anything that would detract from their prizewinner, blue ribbon cash cow -- Summoner's Rift -- gets shoved to the back burner and they forget about it.

dinmammahettepat6 votes

But then we are back at what the summoner above us wrote, it does not take any resources to not specify which map and/or game mode the quest has to be played on. It's just an unnecessary addition they made with making it SR exclusive

SpecterVonBaren5 votes

What does this have to do with Riot trying to destroy TT?

dinmammahettepat13 votes

It's just one of many ways Riot is neglecting TT, this was just a more blatant way than just not patching it or whatever. Although "destroying" might not be a 100% fit in this case, it still depicts the meaning of the sentence whilst getting more attention, and therefore a bigger discussion, than "ignores" which probably already has hundreds of threads.

SpecterVonBaren3 votes

That's.... not neglecting TT. That's like complaining that Poroking is neglecting Summoners Rift since it's played on Howling Abyss instead of SR. The reason they don't just put these on all maps is because of balance reasons, what's reasonable on one map to complete is unreasonable or incredibly easy on another.

dinmammahettepat3 votes

First of all, in a Ask Riot Session linked above, Riot said that map-specific quests are the least liked quests and also the reason that you don't see exclusive ARAM or TT quests anymore. So they've already come to the conclusion that excluding maps are bad yet they do it now.

For the balance part, you can get as many assists in a game of 3v3 as you get in a SR game +- a few assists. The challenger players in TT get 10 cs a minute, just as the good SR players, so this is not anything that should stop it either. Moreover, basically all the SR specific quests this time is "Win five Summoner's Rift games" or "Win four Summoner's Rift games with 100 minion kills". Both of those quests are just as easy/hard on TT and just not excluding the map would really change anything.

Minarde1 votes

Claiming balance reasons is a bit questionable, considering AR URF works perfectly fine, and bot games count too if the mission doesn't specify "PvP."

Aeszarck4 votes

I am so glad that Riot made Twisted Treeline a Flex Queue. I can climb in that queue by myself and I don't need a team to play, but I can have a team or a duo if I want to. A few weeks ago I taught my friend how to play both carry and support, and we have been duoing with me playing support and him playing carry. He placed into Silver V and I climbed to Gold V (since I started playing 3v3 Flex before him). I'm going to see if I can get him to Gold V too for those sweet end of season rewards.

I really don't like how missions are Summoner's Rift exclusive. Twisted Treeline is just as serious a mode, as evidenced by its ranked queue, so it should be valid for completing Missions. Furthermore, it should be eligible for Mastery Tokens.

Minarde3 votes

I really don't like how missions are Summoner's Rift exclusive. Twisted Treeline is just as serious a mode, as evidenced by its ranked queue, so it should be valid for completing Missions. Furthermore, it should be eligible for Mastery Tokens.

This is still despairingly hilarious to me. Ranked TT is competitive enough for ranked rewards and public stats, but not Mastery tokens. Meanwhile, Normal SR is competitive enough for Mastery tokens, yet not competitive enough for ranked rewards or public stats.

Elkington VI1 votes

{quoted}

I am so glad that Riot made Twisted Treeline a Flex Queue. I can climb in that queue by myself and I don't need a team to play, but I can have a team or a duo if I want to. A few weeks ago I taught my friend how to play both carry and support, and we have been duoing with me playing support and him playing carry. He placed into Silver V and I climbed to Gold V (since I started playing 3v3 Flex before him). I'm going to see if I can get him to Gold V too for those sweet end of season rewards.

I really don't like how missions are Summoner's Rift exclusive. Twisted Treeline is just as serious a mode, as evidenced by its ranked queue, so it should be valid for completing Missions. Furthermore, it should be eligible for Mastery Tokens.

Climbing by yourself on 3's? Now that is an accomplishment.

Bârd3 votes

TT has received changes since 5.11, just not to the map.

item 3104 got reworked entirely, and the health shrines received a bug fix that cut the HP they gave considerably.

Knalxz3 votes

I have no care for TT. It's just a mini rift and doesn't and much to the game compared to Crystal scar which has several variations of itself in Riot HQ.

I honestly feel the only reason TT is still around is because Riot wouldn't know what else to do with Vilemaw and don't want her to go to be even more of a waste.

dinmammahettepat1 votes

Have you played any reasonably competitive TT game? It's not just a "mini rift" since it has it's own meta that is pretty much disconnected from what is OP on the SR with a few exceptions.

I can't really say much about Crystal Scar as I wasn't that into them but even if you don't seem to care for TT there is a fairly large community that does. I mean the damn map has a freaking bible that goes in-deapth on what to play and how to play it.

Knalxz1 votes

I don't recall exactly which season it was probably 4 or 5 but a friend and I did do competitive 3v3 with another of his friends. so I do have a bit of experience with it.

Either way my problem with TT is that it doesn't feel like it adds anything new outside of Vilemaw and the Shrines which just twists back to objective securing. You can play rift, then TT and get the same feeling of gameplay which shouldn't be how a game with such few maps and modes plays out.

That's my issue with it. When you stand it up to the otehr modes and Rift it's just the younger sibling.

KuroCaliber2 votes

Because the majority who play summoners right now don't want to play twisted treeline. It was pointed out in the last ask riot that the mandatory Aram game was the least liked mission out of the vs event.

Serevas43 votes

I believe the OP is simply asking for 3v3 to be included, not exclusive. Instead it would be win any PVP matchmade game, as opposed to excluding other map types entirely.

dinmammahettepat13 votes

I get that making the quests only achivable in 3v3 would be bad but why make it exclusive to 5v5 when there exists such passionate communities in the other game modes? It would not change anything for the general playerbase to make it "In Summoner's Rift and Twisted Treeline but it would make a huge deal for the 3v3 community. It's a low risk, high reward type of thing.

Ariel the Cruel2 votes

It's a low risk, high reward type of thing.

There's actually no reward for including TT. The only reason this is getting any attention is because TT was excluded. If it was all game modes, nobody would even give it a first thought.

dinmammahettepat4 votes

Not sure if I'm understanding this wrong, how is there "no reward" in that example. Literally nothing changes for SR players, aka nothing negative is happening at all, and TT players gets to take part.

This goes for any map and game mode I'm sure but I went for TT since that is what I play. But looking at the answers in this discussion the guys playing ARAM also seems to have this problem.

Ariel the Cruel2 votes

Not sure if I'm understanding this wrong, how is there "no reward" in that example.

"Reward" means they stand to gain something. If they had left the quests to all game modes, nobody would care and they gain nothing. They do "lose" something by excluding other maps though (those players respect).

So map exclusion isn't a "risk/reward" scenario for them; it's a "lose/don't lose" scenario.

dinmammahettepat1 votes

Aye, that makes sense. Thanks for elaborating!

Sraeg20131 votes

The only reason this is getting any attention is because TT was excluded.

That's the whole idea behind this thread.

If SR was excluded this would be a thread about SR.

Minarde12 votes

Yet the current Arcade event has mandatory SR games. There's no reason to specify a particular map (unless it thematically fits like in the Bilgewater ARAM event). Doing "Win a PvP matchmade game" would work just as well and doesn't require players to play something they don't want to.

From that same AskRiot you mentioned,

In general, missions that celebrate the achievements in-game that you already care about are the most successful, while in-your-face missions that require you to play a way you don’t want to are disliked.

It's contradictory to state "Forcing players to play ARAM is bad" while simultaneously claiming "Forcing players to play SR is healthy."

Deez Crits1 votes

It's contradictory to state "Forcing players to play ARAM is bad" while simultaneously claiming "Forcing players to play SR is healthy."

Not necessarily, the game is balanced around Summoner's Rift. That's a key difference when you're forcing the players to play one versus the other.

Minarde1 votes

Maybe in raw numbers. There's certainly more SR players than ARAM players, so forcing one affects more people than forcing the other.

However, Riot specifically stated "Missions that require you to play a particular queue you don’t normally play" was a failure. Their reasoning was that there's SR players who greatly dislike ARAM and, thus, greatly disliked the "Play ARAM" missions. On the other hand, the current Arcade event requires players to play SR. What about ARAM/TT players who greatly dislike SR? Do you not agree that it's strange to acknowledge one group saying "We don't like this mode, so don't force us to play it," while ignoring another group saying the exact same thing?

Deez Crits1 votes

Do you not agree that it's strange to acknowledge one group saying "We don't like this mode, so don't force us to play it," while ignoring another group saying the exact same thing?

Yes, I agree if we take it out of context.

TheWoollyMammoth3 votes

As part of this Majority I would like to state that I would LOVE to play twisted treeline. The speed and size of the map are fantastic for quick games and i loved it once. Then they got rid of dominion and all the bots went to tt. Stripped the fun right out of the game mod. Turned it to complete crap.

Ariel the Cruel1 votes

The bots play mostly against themselves. When players are involved, they generally lose. It takes a [long] while; but eventually, you'll get to a point of almost never seeing them.

Bots are only a notable problem for those who play TT rarely, or those who haven't played it before. Great way to prevent community growth, Rito. (It worked great for Dominion.)

And honestly, I think Dominion had it far worse. The bot problem there was bad enough that most [competitive] games were played in customs. Which I still suspect they either ignored or lumped with "hide-and-seek" when they claimed few humans ever played it. (>_>)

TheWoollyMammoth1 votes

Every game I tried to play since i came off of haitus after malz rework in tt was with bots. Perhaps I should try to push through the early crap shoot. Thanks for the info.

And Ya, Dominion was undoubtedly worse, it's the reason I never played it. Have a really low tolerance for bots in pvp mod.

Ariel the Cruel2 votes

I've been playing off-and-on since dominion got shut down. It wasn't until last season that I switched to TT as my primary game mode. So far, this season is the first one where I haven't seen a single bot.

So like I said: it takes a while. Long enough to reasonably scare away any newcomers.

xScarfy1 votes

I play a lot of 3v3 games and I never had a bot in one of my games. As far as I know, most of the bots are in Coop vs AI.

Ariel the Cruel1 votes

TT is popular because it's generally faster than SR. Even for bots.

Ariel the Cruel2 votes

Something to note: The "Summoner's Rift" quests can be completed on URF. So it's map specific, not game specific. Which makes this even more confusing because it rules out any "balance" arguments.

Flemman2 votes

That the only reason the mission are SR exclusive tbh, they want poeple to complete them in arurf (which is a bad move tbh) since some of them are really design for the mode (35 min game, assist one) but they didn't wanted to say arurf so the say "sr" instead

Jonxx2 votes

Yeah, just like Dominion... oh wait. Yep, 3v3 likely following it's steps, which is sad, I loved dominion, and I love 3v3 map as well. But the way things are going...

Ariel the Cruel2 votes

People saw this connection a long time ago. Riot still denies it on the basis that they won't delete healthy queues, "like rotating game mode, ARAM, and SR." (>_>)

ZyniX2 votes

I agree Riot plays favorites. I am real tired of being an ARAM only player and watching some of my favorite champs get nerfs because of SR items they can't even build. There are also cases like sona who has had over 70% winrate for YEARS. You end up with 56% winrate in SR and that's hotfix worthy.

JackMcSnipeyz1 votes

While riot shouldnt abandoned their game mode, you cant expect them to take ARAM into balance consideration, SR was and always will be what the game is balanced around.

Minarde1 votes

Map-specific balancing is always an option. There's been examples for years (e.g. Mordekaiser, Garen, Gangplank, Nasus). Hell, even AR URF currently has mode-specific balancing (e.g. Rumble, Kassadin).

Ariel the Cruel2 votes

It is their official policy that what is balanced on SR is good enough or all maps/modes. :/

Dataless2 votes

Super click-baitey title, imho detracts from your otherwise honest and sincere argument.

dinmammahettepat3 votes

Click-baitish title in some sense but I doubt anyone would click on yet another "Riot is ignoring TT"-thread.

Dataless3 votes

Which they are, I completely agree with you. League would be a much better game if 3v3 were as well-supported as 5v5

Skorch1 votes

I will say part of the reason i think they are SR only is because the missions are tailored to it. Now you could argue that they SHOULDNT be tailored to it. But if you want larger longer missions like they have right now. Its kinda hard to get 350 minions in a game of TT.

TT exclusive would also be bad.

IDK if thats the reasoning but thats what im guessing.

Ariel the Cruel1 votes

Depending on your role, comp, and RNGesus elo Excuse Match making, 100 CS can be hard to get on SR. The bigger issue is that there's nothing game-play preventing these objectives from being completed on another map. And it's not just a matter of them being intended for vanilla LoL; they work on URF. It is literally just the map that is being restricted, not the game mode.

dinmammahettepat2 votes

I mean, seeing as the challenger TT-players can be/are averaging 10 minions a minute it's really not that impossible. It's also fucking all the support mains. Imo, just bad quests overall this time.

And yes, I agree that TT exclusive quests would also be bad and for the very same reason that TT exclusive quests are bad, SR exclusive quests are as bad.

R2D201 votes

The one reason I can think they specified SR on these particular quest lines is because of the re-skinning of the map to be arcade themed and this is the arcade themed quest line.

That isn't to say that I don't agree that it sucks that TT is excluded, it's just to say that it's the only reason I can see.

Ariel the Cruel2 votes

Except the re-skinning is only on small parts of the map. And it can be turned off.

R2D201 votes

Didn't say it's a good reason, just the only one I can think of [slayer-jinx-wink]

Audauron1 votes

I just...I just want Riot to show a little love to the 3v3 players. Why do I have to suffer through a 5v5 to get m7 :/

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