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Let's just break down Zyra for a little bit . . .

Dr Nexus X··1 votes·1,897 views

I get it. Mages in the bot lane are necessary damage supports[Velkoz Zilean Fiddlesticks Lux Xerath] . This is great, but AP items and scalings were altered to prevent a serious lead too early with little effort. For most champions, there's a feasible way to play around such power and keep a win in sight. That being said, how in the world is anyone supposed to play against a ZyraZyra ? Botlane or otherwise, the damage scaling, the cooldowns, and the pressure are too much. Covering the discussion that, mathematically you can't buy enough Magic Resist in the entire game to counter any amount of shop bought AP, with any champGalio, Morgana makes Zyra way too strong at every level. Not just with 6, not just after a certain item; at every level after 2, Zyra has too much power unless you and your team shove her in a dirt hole and bury her all game keeping her away from any decent gold income or xp. There's no counterplay to it, you can't shield away from the two plant - Q - W -burst when she has a drop of AP. You can try with item 3139 item 3814 item 3156 item 3102 but that's just for the one ability, 2.5 seconds, and up to a certain point. Then you have to contend with the plants left behind that just keep on flinging your impending death. If. IF . If you live. By some miracle , enjoy the recall or 5 item 2003s in lane.

"That's what bans are for"

Hundreds of players will live in the constant fear that someone doesn't ban her lest she destroy the map with her foliage. I just think something needs to change to bring balance to the elements, and every summoner can see that less mana is not the move.

  • Maybe the move is reducing plant attack speed at certain levels, giving players a chance to react or even cut down Petey Pirahna Plant's morbidly slender cousins.
  • Maybe simply change AP scaling on Zyra's abilities(an obvious thought, but no fix will ever be that simple)?
  • Maybe cast times are increased?
  • Maybe range is reduced?
  • Maybe reducing damage to the same target based on the amount of times a summoner is hit by that one plant[doesn't fix the one-shot problem]

Please, weigh in? Or am I just jerry screwed everytime Zyra shows up on the client? Riot, I know you work hard on balancing the game for us, and it shows you guys work long hours and have hard decisions to make that change the entire dynamic of the game, but I think this issue might be hard pressed for a double check. Thank you for all your hard work!

5 Comments

PrinceOfStorms4 votes

Only if we nerf the ever living daylights out of any champion that uses attack speed. Because unlike Zyra, they literally right click you and you can't really do anything against them. Yi on you? Tough luck, he's going to kill you in about 1.5 seconds thanks to on hits (particularly Guinsoo's) being moronic. Caitlyn didn't feed? She'll two shot you with her point-click AAs unless you're a tank. Vayne? Good luck fighting her, Riot buffed her into god tier and she was already good as a duelist.

Maybe remove the ability to reset the AA timer, and make all attack speed sources mutually exclusive - if you have multiple sources of attack speed, you only benefit from the highest.

Dr Nexus X1 votes

The interesting thing about that attack speed fix is, it won't have anything to do with any other champions or items. It's completely plant based attached atk speed. I'm saying they hit too hard too often. I get the problems with vayne and Caitlyn, but there's champion counters they make sense. A 54% wr support that does most of the damage in every game needs a second look! Maybe changing the attributes of the plants stats themselves not atk speed in the game.

PrinceOfStorms1 votes

All attack speed champions are fundamentally poor design, crit marksmen included. Unless Riot feels like making all attacks, melee or ranged, into skillshots, there is no way to give attack speed champions damage that isn't negligible and have them not be busted. Marksmen in particular have the most problematic item in the game, Stormrazor, that gives them the splooge damage the marksman rework was supposed to remove.

By comparison, Zyra could not be more balanced.

Profirix1 votes

I'm no plat+ player, but I spent most of my ranked season climbing to gold with nothing but Zyra support, so hopefully I can give a little insight.

There are two things you need to consider when playing against a Zyra:

  1. If she does not hit you with a spell or auto attack and still spawns plants, they will almost always target minions before they target champions. If you play against her with a ranged match-up, you can almost always take advantage of this, harass her, and avoid taking plant damage. If you are a melee champion, wait until she wastes her Q or E and then engage or get that relic stack.
  2. If she does manage to land a skill shot on you with some plants, just walk away. Don't wait, unless you are melee and can one-shot them. Yes, the plants can be killed with a single auto attack. Without sustained damage from her plants, she does significantly less damage than most other mage poke bot lanes.

One last thought: beware of when they clear all of your minions out. As a Zyra player, I always look to cast a double W and Q combo to get plants to get a few shots on you as you retreat. When the last minion is about to go down, back off if you don't want to take damage.

Zyra is designed to be annoying, but without her ult buff to plants her damage is mediocre at best. You have more control over her plants than you realize.

GFREEMEN1 votes

Yes but the changes should not be nerfed and should force her back to where she belongs as a MIDLANE MAGE

The way she was designed.

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