I alwas wonder why the 
cost is too high to build at less 1 
Whene there
+ 3x
+ 1x
+ 2x
+ 2x
+ 1x
+ 2x
+4x i think
+ 1x
+ 3x
+ 3x
+3x
+4x
+ +3x
+ +3x
I just dont get it
well I also dont know why 
is not starting item any more but i dont really care cause you can't really start whit it any way.
Why dont put whit thos stats : 10% atkspeed cost 300 gold.
SORRY FOR THE BAD ENGLISH
AyRe CoNteMpT1 votesbecause attackspeed is too strong in early all ins
JustBoneBrook1 votesbecause attackspeed is too strong in early all ins
I dont agreed whit that Atk speed is like crit but whitout the ramdow trade win
You better do 10 more damage than get atk speed.
10 damage on 50 bassic damage
but is a damage Multiplicateur YOU NEED THE DAMAGE to make it usefull.
AyRe CoNteMpT1 votesall champs have enough damage by default to make it useful earlygame. attackspeed just deals ALOT more damage than AD or anything in comparison, but for most champions it doesnt scale into anything, so it doesnt get stacked on runes. some champions DO get it on runes tho, and for them, their early dueling is allready boosted big time now. if they could buy dagger plus a potion, it would simply be too strong.
thats why i believe riot increased the cost of that baby.
JustBoneBrook1 votesall champs have enough damage by default to make it useful earlygame. attackspeed just deals ALOT more damage than AD or anything in comparison, but for most champions it doesnt scale into anything, so it doesnt get stacked on runes. some champions DO get it on runes tho, and for them, their early dueling is allready boosted big time now. if they could buy dagger plus a potion, it would simply be too strong.
thats why i believe riot increased the cost of that baby.
Well you can actually do this so i guess it not that good just wait 5 sec after the minions and you can build one pots... if it that good why no one do this? (and you wont lose any minins i tryed)
AyRe CoNteMpT1 votesbecause all you can do is all-in with it and if the enemy sees it, he will simply not let you lane, so its very risky. tho if you play tryndamere with ghost ignite and the right setup, it can often help you do a cheesy lvl 2 all in.
JustBoneBrook1 votesbecause all you can do is all-in with it and if the enemy sees it, he will simply not let you lane, so its very risky. tho if you play tryndamere with ghost ignite and the right setup, it can often help you do a cheesy lvl 2 all in.
but if you fight trynda just build and 4 pots i dont thing he will kill you lvl 2 if you got this
AyRe CoNteMpT1 votes5 pots dont help you in an all-in and cloth armor isnt a very strong item either, it just helps you SUSTAIN his damage in a prolonged trade-matchup. if he all ins you with ignite level 2, that doesnt do anything. a dorans shield would give you alot more defense in that situations and even then its not guaranteed.
tho just losing 3 minions and not taking the risk of getting all-inned until like level 3-4 is good because then he just threw away the sustain and poke damage of a dorans blade and gets outsustained.
JustMyBassCannon2 votesBecause dealing 60 damage every 1.43-1.82 seconds is so much stronger than dealing 50 damage every 1.24-1.58 seconds. These numbers are figured using 0.55-0.7 as a base, which is beyond the normal base AS range for any champion.
Over 10 seconds, you get 6/7 attacks in the first case, dealing 360/420 damage. Over 10 seconds, you get 7/8 attacks in the second case, dealing 350/400 damage.
The only way Dagger is stronger than Long Sword for early all-ins is if (a) you have no AD ratios and (b) if your attacks deal 70+ damage at level 1. Which is really difficult for most champions. I mean, aside from Draven, but he wants AD because of his ratios and innate AS steroid (also because he can catch his axe for every attack at his pre-4 innate AS).
Other than that, it's easier to get a parting shot, which might push you ahead of Long Sword. Maybe.
AyRe CoNteMpT1 votesgo like full ad+attackspeed page and skill E + Q and you have like 90 AD lvl 2.
also, the "ad ratio" on his E doesnt justify a longsword...
PS: other than that, sure they didnt increase the gold cost for dagger because of tryndamere. its just something that came to my mind. they did that because whatever weird rito reasons. probably didnt change anyhting.
JustMyBassCannon2 votesgo like full ad+attackspeed page and skill E + Q and you have like 90 AD lvl 2.
Yeah, but the point is still that you want AD before AS on Draven.
also, the "ad ratio" on his E doesnt justify a longsword...
But the AD ratio on his Q definitely does. +45/55/65/75/85% AD. Also his ult's ratio, although by that time you're building some AS.
AyRe CoNteMpT1 votestryndamere has no ratios on his Q and R
JustMyBassCannon1 votes...SINCE WHEN WERE WE TALKING ABOUT TRYNDAMERE?!?
You mentioned him at the end of your post, not at the start. I had assumed you were talking about Draven. You know, like I was. Since you didn't start off saying something different, I got confused.
JustBoneBrook1 votesgo like full ad+attackspeed page and skill E + Q and you have like 90 AD lvl 2.
also, the "ad ratio" on his E doesnt justify a longsword...
PS: other than that, sure they didnt increase the gold cost for dagger because of tryndamere. its just something that came to my mind. they did that because whatever weird rito reasons. probably didnt change anyhting.
Wait wait wait you got a full atk speed page and got 90 atk damage lvl 2? how you do that if you got full atk speed rune you will have lvl may be 60 or 70... 80 may be on fiora whit her w onluck.
http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_champions'_attack_damage so moakai whit full atk speed rune got lvl 2 67 atk damage...
AyRe CoNteMpT1 votestryndamere has 64 attack damage on lvl 2 by default. he then gets +5 from masteries, +5 from Q at full health + some more for the health he loses in trades.
well, thats only 80 ad. still pretty damn high.
JustBoneBrook1 votesI dont know i dont thing it would be that broke but any way they could reduce the atk speed etc or put it back to normal if it such a big deal.
And really face it is in a weird place right now you build one you are like oh cool wont do much but at lest i got something and it not like that you know at lest it will buff you bassic atk, you speel and be buildable lvl 1...
Dagger is just really weird place you are just never really happy to have one
the real item you like to have is 
AyRe CoNteMpT1 votesdunno, im always really happy if i can get a dagger on my first back instead of a longsword. i like the item very much
JustBoneBrook1 votesdunno, im always really happy if i can get a dagger on my first back instead of a longsword. i like the item very much
oh well it may be just me i just feel it not a starting item, it not a mid item is just like oh i got too much gold and i am build this any way let buy it... it wont be lost any way. the real deal to me is whene you get or 
that where you start to see it do something to your atk speed else 15% dont look like much. I start to see the use of it arond 30% (a bit low) to 50% (Best you can have my bad 
)
you dont really build item that give 30% for the atk speed 
onless it a mid game item may be like 
AyRe CoNteMpT1 voteswell, i start to see a big difference from about 5%+ when trading in lane. you will notice this ESPECIALLY in jungle when you try multiple setups for clearing and you realize that a little bit attackspeed can save you hundreds of health. ofcourse attack speed doesnt mega-scale on your flat auto attack damage without any added effects, but many champions have some sort of on-hit effects inbuilt so that an extra bit of attackspeed scales with that too and has insane effects.
for example, my main shyvana has three on-hit effects, one on each ability. her Q reduces the cooldown of that spell by 0.5 on hit, her W deals 20% of its damage on hit and her E deals 2,5% max enemy health on hit, this means AD runes on her is completely wasting her strength while going attackspeed scales absurdly.
many champions have that, and coming back to the tryndamere situation: he ACTUALLY scales on attackspeed with his passive too, because he gains fury for every auto attack and crit, not for how strong his auto attack is. this means, with attackspeed, you build fury alot quicker too, which, in lane, leads to better all-ins and trades and in jungle especially leads to alot more sustain.
attackspeed is just WAY WAY WAY better in all scenarios on all champions EXCEPT if they have massive AD scaling on abilities (like pantheon, zed, renekton etc) but it has to be kinda big scaling on multiple abilities. a good example is the BOTRK. almost all champions that this item is built on have bad or no AD scaling on their abilities but synergize good with fast auto attacks anyways.
JustBoneBrook1 votestotally agreed whit that but you really thing makeing lvl 1 will becaume the new meta?
Any way i just want it to be 20 gold less i thing 20... So i can build it whit 1 a pots and dont have to wait for minions to build one.
AyRe CoNteMpT1 votesi think dagger on lvl 1 is only viable on champions who have a strong lvl 2 all-in that somewhat scales with attackspeed like tryndamere and master yi and potentially some others (fiora etc) and to a more experienced player, it gives away your intentions to all in level 2 entirely. its really a cheese item if you buy it level 1 because it offers no laning utility like sustain.
it cant become the new meta because the biggest counter to it is go flask and 4 pots and chill until level 4 and the dagger-user is fucked because maximum 1 potion and no sustain.
but if you make it cheaper, it might become too dominant in early levels so that on lower skill levels people will have tremendous problems surviving a level 2 fiora all in.
also, i think its in a good place right now. it gives alot of power for its cost and builds into alot of cheap early items for many roles and champions. no need to change anything about it really.
and you should start with flask anyways most of the time ;D
JustBoneBrook1 votesI like how civilized you are :D and you make good point but mate need to change time to time, and i fell makeing it just 10 or 20 gold i fogot how much you need to build a pots whit it... Cheeper whould not be too much it will just make you able to help in teamfight at the blue if the enemie invade.
AyRe CoNteMpT1 votesif you make dagger cheaper without nerfing it, you will make attackspeed a more cost-efficient buy and it ALLREADY is the most cost-efficient buy damage wise. thats what im saying.
5% of attackspeed cost 150 gold. if you nerf the cost, you would have to nerf the effect and i think thats like whatever. you dont need to start with that item and if you really want to, you still can if you wait a bit.
like, many people buy flask and wait for a 4th potion. its the same thing.
like, MAYBE you could change it if you put some serious thought into it, but its so far down the list that i would just ask you kindly to think about more important things ;D
Critmaster Garen1 votesbefore they changed mantle, you could start with it and 2 pots.
it wasnt ideal, but better than not starting with an mr item at all against certain matchups. so yea, you could start with it. and i wish riot would give it back as a lvl 1 option.
it also made mr items more comfortable to build, as you could pick it up more easily next to other purchases. even if it didnt gave a little less. but the items its built from dont even have to change. you could just increase the combine cost by the same amount.