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Elise hit a little too hard?

VlK1SOVfcV··39 votes·4,543 views

Since the new Blood Moon Elise skin has just came out I thought I would make a post on my thought of how she stands right now.

The nerfs that Riot had made to Elise in patch 4.13 and 4.4 made her really weak. Elise

I understand that Elise was used a lot in season 3 and she did seem a little overpowered but I think Riot went too far with the nerfs and put her into a spot where she can't really do anything.

Here are the things that Riot nerfed on Elise. Elise

**Patch 4.4 ** Q - Neurotoxin BASE DAMAGE 40/80/120/160/200 ⇒ 40/75/110/145/180 MAXIMUM % HEALTH DAMAGE VS. MONSTERS 60/120/180/240/300 ⇒ 50/75/100/125/150 Q - Venomous Bite BASE DAMAGE 60/110/160/210/260 ⇒ 60/100/140/180/220 MAXIMUM % HEALTH DAMAGE VS. MONSTERS 60/120/180/240/300⇒ 50/75/100/125/150 E - Cocoon STUN DURATION 1.5 seconds ⇒ 1/1.25/1.5/1.75/2 seconds E - Rappel COOLDOWN 26/24/22/20/18 seconds ⇒ 26/23/20/17/14 seconds R - Spider Form SPIDERLING HEALTH (ROUGH VALUES)~~ 90260~~ ⇒ 85390 SPIDERLING HEALTH (REAL VALUES) 90/100/110/120/130/140/150/160/170/180/190/200/210/ 220/230/240/250/260 ⇒ 85/95/105/115/125/135/145/160/175/190/210/230/250/ 275/300/325/355/390

Patch 4.13 E - Cocoon WIDTH 70 ⇒ 55 SPIDER-VISION Fixed a bug where Cocoon was providing vision longer than the stun duration (now correctly matches it) E - Rappel SOME PREAMBLE Rappel now calculates its range from the center of Elise to the center of the target ⇒ edge of Elise to the edge of the target (this means Rappel gains about +75 range) RANGE 925 ⇒ 750 (~825 range if using the old targeting calculations)

Riot nerfed every ability on Elise besides her W. She went from being a powerhouse to nothing in a few patches. In season 3 Elise used to be able to gank early, snowball her team and get objectives. Now Elise trys to gank a lane, whiffs her tiny hitbox 1 second stun, and walks back into the jungle like no one saw it. The only thing that hasn't really changed about Elise is her clear early game, her spiderlings are amazing for early clear and she takes no damage from jungle monsters if you use her spiderlings right, but like I said before, missing your 1 second stun really makes her harder to do anything with. Even if you do hit your stun, its only 1 second early game and people usually max it last on her. She did get some cooldown buffs but that didn't really balance out anything. Elise can still deal a lot of damage if you build her somewhat AP so thats nothing to worry about, but its just mostly both E ranges on her that got nerfed a little too hard. I used to main Elise in season 3 and now its hard to play her without feeling like I can't do anything all game.

Please tell me if you agree/disagree in the comments but this is my thought on Elise and how she stands. Elise

-Mafia Jinx

48 Comments

Altricad11 votes

When this guy LeeSin can deal a maximum of 400 damage at ALL levels with his q to monsters.

and this girl Elise can only deal 150 max, something is horribly wrong with the balance team.

Yfrappefort7 votes

{quoted}

When this guy LeeSin can deal a maximum of 400 damage at ALL levels with his q to monsters.

and this girl Elise can only deal 150 max, something is horribly wrong with the balance team.

No kidding, I like how they cut Elise monster damage in half because she could "secure objectives too easily", but they leave Lee Sin like that when his monster execute is even stronger.

But hey, it's ok since it's Lee $in, and nobody must be able to get even close to what he can do.

It's hard to not think that Riot is totally biased with him when you see stuff like that.

NOHRIAN SKUM1 votes

You'd think that they'd cut down on executes like that. I mean, isn't that intruding onto Nunu , and Chogath territory in terms of objective securing? For the sake of, "Champions need to be more diverse and have their own niches."

Also, meanwhile...Kalista You're probably never going to steal anything with a Nunu /Chogath and Kalista around.

Earthlord Jazz9 votes

Haha, misread the title and thought you were complaining that Elise hit too hard! I agree with you

Kersh5 votes

She's not unplayale but it's like why pick her when everyone else does more? Even if a Elise gets fed it won't really help her that much. The best thing she has is a supersafe jungle and some decent ganks, even with that though shell end up just feeling/being useless as teamfights start.

2pudge1cup5 votes

Elise was OP in season 3. There's no denying it. I wish other conceptually broken champs got the Elise treatment. A jack-of-all trades champ shoudn't be the master of many.

Direwolfiez9 votes

Then Lee Sin should have crap ratios, but he doesn't. It's not fair to dumpster Elise and leave Lee untouched aside from a few love taps (anyone that insists that those nerfs "gutted him" are insane).

2pudge1cup4 votes

That's exactly what I said.

Direwolfiez2 votes

Wasn't sure if you were only talking about Elise or making a sweeping statement using only Elise as an example.

Sorry about that :)

Knight SoIaire 4 votes

The nerfs that Riot had made to Elise in patch 4.13 and 4.4 made her really weak

seriously? i didnt notice in the storm of other ppl posting it and EVEN REDS STATING THAT ELISE IS OVERNERFED BECAUSE SHE CAN BECOME A SECOND LEE SIN

Zahz32 votes

lol wish they had that attitude when it comes to the real lee sin

Narasimha2 votes

The only problem is that she'd be worse than Lee Sin if given real numbers.

Lee has a % health move? She has two. Lee has gapclosers? Hers can be used as one of the safest escapes in the game. Lee has a steroid? Hers even heals her. Hard CC? She can do it from a distance.

Her kit is seriously so overloaded that giving her hard numbers would be insane.

OyddAWqJ5r2 votes

You mean like pre nerf? Lol

501st Big Mike7 votes

Lee's % health move stronger than either of Elise's. Lee has 2 gapclosers, Elise has 1, and Lee's Safeguard is op at escaping. Lee has a built in heal as well. Elise's only form of cc is pretty hard to hit with the small hit box and unless she maxes it first (which kills her ability to fight or clear jungle) it does not last very long. Lee has 2 forms of cc he can use on people.

PrinceOfStorms1 votes

{quoted}

The only problem is that she'd be worse than Lee Sin if given real numbers.

Lee has a % health move? She has two. Lee has gapclosers? Hers can be used as one of the safest escapes in the game. Lee has a steroid? Hers even heals her. Hard CC? She can do it from a distance.

Her kit is seriously so overloaded that giving her hard numbers would be insane.

Rappel requires a target to actually go anywhere, so it's hardly one of the safest escapes. Elise also has autoattacks and a long CD ability that relies on crappy AI in order to actually hit what you want it to. Lee gets a lot of spell vamp/lifesteal, ON TOP of a free shield. In addition, Lee Sin uses Energy whereas Elise uses mana.

Z461 votes

% health: Lee Sin's Q has a 90% bonus AD ratio, 180% when both Sonic Wave and Resonating Strike are counted together, on top of a flat 8% in the poor victim's missing health on the latter spell. Elise does a flat 8% of current health on Neurotoxin, and 8% missing health on Venomous Bite. Elise's abilities add 3% per 100 AP.

Neurotoxin is great against someone with a shitton of health, but (completely ignoring the ability to cast Sonic Wave and Resonating Strike back to back) Resonating Strike alone will always do more damage than Venomous Bite thanks to the former's scaling. Elise's Q also has a maximum damage limit against monsters, while Lee Sin's does not.

Gapclosers: Lee Sin has Resonating Strike, which can be used from an extremely long range (it and Sonic Wave can be cast from further away than any of Elise's abilities). If Lee goes in on Resonating Strike, he can E2 and slow his target more than enough to get everything else off. Safeguard works on anything classified as an ally from 700 range, allowing for effective walljumps with wards and quite literally anything your team leaves lying around. He can jump to allied Teemo shrooms.

Venomous Bite (Elise's first gapcloser) has 475 range. That's less than Lucian's attack range. She also has no followup CC unless she immediately swaps back to Human Form for a point-blank Cocoon. Rappel only works on enemy targets. Put simply, Elise can't escape; she only has an in.

Heals: Elise's heal? 4 flat + 4% AP per autoattack or Spiderling attack that lasts for three seconds. Along with her Q's equally shit scaling with nothing to make up for it besides her Human!W (which has a 12 second cooldown and isn't exactly the easiest thing to land, so it's just used for scouting more than anything), Elise has more than enough cause to never build AP. Magic penetration is the only thing she has going for her, but her base damage is pretty shit, too.

Lee Sin gets a flat 25% lifesteal and spellvamp for four seconds. This adds on to the very common and recommended build of a Ravenous Hydra, adding an extra 12% lifesteal, and even an extra 20% (57% total in lifesteal if you're keeping up on the math) from a Bloodthirster if you're fed out the ass. Lee Sin can afford to do this because his scaling and innate survivability is amazing as balls.

Spellvamp applies to Smite, meaning Lee can W2 and smite literally any monster or minion at level 18 and get 250 health back in an instant. This is on top of Sonic Wave, Resonating Strike and his ultimate, all of which count as single-target spells and therefore apply full spellvamp.

CC: Elise's only CC is in the form of a non-damaging skillshot the width of Nidalee's spear that lasts two seconds at max rank. Lee Sin not only has a slow and true sight in Tempest, which he can double-cast immediately after going in on Resonating Strike, but his ultimate is a second-long targeted knockback with a 200% bonus AD ratio. If he kicks his target into more enemies, they take the same damage. Significantly more play potential can be made from Dragon's Rage as well, compared to Elise's wimpy-as-shit stun.

Due to the massive disparity between their skillsets, even while regarding cooldowns, I can almost guarantee that you're much more likely to get more Lee ults in than you are Elise stuns.

tl;dr Elise is overnerfed shit, through and through, and Lee is overloaded and overpowered.

OyddAWqJ5r8 votes

Riot mentality: Noone can be as strong as Lee Sin. Elise is as strong as him?! OH FUCK NO SOUND THE DEATH BELL!!

Abyssphere17 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hagane No Arashi,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kIFsbdgx,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-01-11T14:25:40.205+0000)

seriously? i didnt notice in the storm of other ppl posting it and EVEN REDS STATING THAT ELISE IS OVERNERFED BECAUSE SHE CAN BECOME A SECOND LEE SIN

So Lee Sin is allowed to be Lee Sin but Elise must be unplayable?

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

le is already there and he isnt such an offender as elise (elise was doing everything basing on her ites , lee does everything only in lcs)

besides that lee is prolly getting a rework too

Direwolfiez4 votes

Wow, Lee is unplayable? That must be why he's always pick/ban in LCS/Worlds and has one of the highest pick rates in the game.

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

you cant read lol

i already wrote that he is only op in lcs

Direwolfiez2 votes

So Lee Sin is allowed to be Lee Sin but Elise must be unplayable?

le is already there

I think you're the one that can't read...

GaleWinUnleashed6 votes

And they're even admitting that Lee is a problem, yet they can't nerf him due to "backlash" from the professional players.

5G8Nri0B544 votes

Title: Elise hit a little too hard?

...

Okay, I'll just point out right now the moment I read the title, I thought you were complaining about Elise doing too much damage. Good thing I actually read your thread first.

Zirzon3 votes

I personally feel she doesn't deal nearly enough damage when building AP. Her ratios are pretty bad, and odds are, if you just build tanky you're going to deal more because you live a bit longer. No matter how fed I may get, even if I go full AP, her damage is not satisfying at all late game.

Meep Man3 votes

She's weak, but definitely not unplayable.

Pikmints7 votes

Maybe not unplayable, but her winrate is currently the lowest. She's almost 2% lower than Urgot.

You are 2% more likely to win a game if you pick Urgot than if you pick Elise.

RainbowIcee1 votes

{quoted}

Maybe not unplayable, but her winrate is currently the lowest. She's almost 2% lower than Urgot.

You are 2% more likely to win a game if you pick Urgot than if you pick Elise.

no.. not at all ._. there's far more people that play elise than urgot. It's more likely inexperienced elise players bringing her win rate down while people wouldn't normally pick urgot unless they know they about to get things done. Urgot being a lane bully if he isn't stopped early game there's gonna be bricks to be shat. He is very easy to shut down early game on that note though.

Abyssphere4 votes

{quoted}

no.. not at all ._. there's far more people that play elise than urgot. It's more likely inexperienced elise players bringing her win rate down while people wouldn't normally pick urgot unless they know they about to get things done. Urgot being a lane bully if he isn't stopped early game there's gonna be bricks to be shat. He is very easy to shut down early game on that note though.

Elise has a terribly low play rate too, among the game's very lowest. She is firmly in "only mains play her" territory.

501st Big Mike3 votes

Your forgetting nerfs that she had before 4.4. She has been nerfed so many times.

v1.0.0.150

Elise released.

v1.0.0.151 (this was a rare buff to elise)

Neurotoxin ability power ratio increased to 3% per 100 ability power from 2% Venomous Bite ability power ratio increased to 3% per 100 ability power from 2% Cocoon Missile speed increased to 1,450 from 1300 Now reveals the target if it hits Spider Form bonus magic damage per ability power ratio increased to 0.3 from 0.2

v1.0.0.152 (minor buff)

Base Movement Speed increased by 25

v1.0.0.153 (the last time Riot ever loved Elise)

Volatile Spiderling Fixed a bug where Volatile Spiderlings were only lasting for 2.5 seconds, rather than the intended 3 seconds Skittering Frenzy Now immediately starts Elise attacking at her faster attack speed, rather than waiting until her next attack starts

v3.01

Neurotoxin Mana cost increased to 80 / 85 / 90 / 95 / 100 from 60 Cocoon Mana cost reduced to 50 from 65

v3.04 (Overall nerf, but reasoning is sound to make her have to take some more risks.) Elise has been rewarded too well for playing safely, so we shifted some of her power to her spider form to increase the reward for taking risks.

Neurotoxin Cast range reduced to 625 from 650 Damage reduced to 40 / 80 / 120 / 160 / 200 from 50 / 95 / 140 / 185 / 230 Venomous Bite Damage increased to 60 / 110 / 160 / 210 / 260 from 50 / 95 / 140 / 185 / 230

v3.07 (Riot says they did this to stop Elise from being lane bully, but this in facts killed her laning potential. After this lane Elise disapeers [a few people still play her in lane, but for most part she is only jungle now].) Reducing the bonus Armor and Magic Resist in Spider Form while increasing the ability power ratio on Skittering Frenzy will better position Elise's offensive capabilities and vulnerabilities. Elise continues to be a very strong lane bully; she will just need to think carefully about when she can win a trade.

Skittering Frenzy Ability Power ratio increased to 0.04 from 0.02 Spider Form No longer grants bonus Armor and Magic Resist

v3.10 (Combined with loss of armor and magic resist in previous patch, her ability to tank is severly reduced.) Summary: Spiderlings are now less tanky overall, particularly against champions who build armor penetration. Spiderlings will also descend from Rappel after Elise, meaning if she Rappels with tower aggro and no friendly minions around, she'll be targeted first once she lands (towers used to target Spiderlings first because they would descend first). Rappel also no longer allows Elise to travel outside of the indicated range.

Context: Elise has been a high-value pick in competitive play for some time thanks to the overall strength of her kit. We considered reducing the damage of some of her abilities, but felt like we should target her more frustrating aspects first. Specifically, we wanted to reduce the tankiness of Elise's spiderlings and lower their utility as damage sponges. With these changes we can add a little more counterplay for her opponents, meaning Elise players will need to think more carefully about her Spider Swarm passive.

The other ability we targeted was the deceptively long range of Rappel. We initially designed Elise's Rappel to allow for some extra travel space outside of her indicated range, but in retrospect this made the skill extremely frustrating to play against. These changes mean the circular visual indicator will more accurately show who Elise is able to descend upon.

Spiderlings Health reduced to 90-260 from 125-550 Armor increased to 30/50/70/90 from 30 (based on Spider Form rank) Magic Resist increased to 50/70/90/110 from 50 (based on Spider Form rank) Multi-target damage reduction adjusted to 25% from 10/20/30/40% Spiderlings no longer continue taking actions before vanishing once Elise shifts into Human Form Spiderlings now group closer together while moving Volatile Spiderling Movement Speed has been reduced Rappel Elise can no longer descend outside of the indicated area Fixed a bug where Elise could begin casting spells and attacking as soon as she began her descent while she was still untargetable Spiderlings will now descend from Rappel slightly after Elise instead of descending at the same time

v4.2

SpiderForm.png R - Spider Form COLLISION SIZE :: Fixed a bug where Elise's spider form size was smaller than intended for gameplay collision purposes.

v4.4 (Lowered damage against monsters, and made several changes to hurt her early game for small buffs late game. Seeing as she is meant to be an early game jungler meant to help her team snowball, this contradicts that they want to emphasize "Champions having specific strengths and weaknesses.")

"Reiterating what was mentioned in the foreword of the patch notes, we like champions that have different strengths and weaknesses at various points in the game, but jungle Elise was an extreme outlier with her super strong spider-of-all-trades early game. This is definitely a nerf, but we'll keep an eye on Elise as she adjusts." We lowered Neurotoxin/Venomous Bite's damage versus monsters while making Cocoon's stun shorter at early levels and higher at later levels. We also shortened the cooldown of Rappel and lowered spiderling health at early levels but raised it at higher levels.

Neurotoxin.pngQ - Neurotoxin Base Damage: 40/80/120/160/200 ⇒ 40/75/110/145/180 Maximum % Health Damage vs Monsters: 60/120/180/240/300 ⇒50/75/100/125/150 VenomousBite.png Q - Venomous Bite Base Damage: 60/110/160/210/260 ⇒ 60/100/140/180/220 Maximum % Health Damage vs Monsters: 60/120/180/240/300 ⇒50/75/100/125/150 Cocoon.png E - Cocoon Stun Duration: 1.5 seconds ⇒ 1/1.25/1.5/1.75/2 seconds Rappel.png E - Rappel Cooldown: 26/24/22/20/18 seconds ⇒ 26/23/20/17/14 seconds SpiderForm.png R - Spider Form Spiderling Health (Rough Values): 90260 ⇒ 85390 Spiderling Health (Real Values): 90/100/110/120/130/140/150/160/170/180/190/200/210/220/230/240/250/260 ⇒85/95/105/115/125/135/145/160/175/190/210/230/250/275/300/325/355/390

v4.9 (Actually good for Elise, but its a bugfix, not a buff.)

Rappel.png E - Rappel Bugfix: Fixed a bug where the initial cast of Rappel could not be used on wards (Elise no longer needs to cast Rappel twice to descend on a ward)

v4.13 Elise's cocoon got skinnier and her rappel range got shortened

"Thanks to her strong dueling power, great objective control (both in damage and spiderling tanking), and high utility ganks, Elise's got all the right things to make her a priority pick in competitive play. You'll hear the same for Lee Sin, but when a champion has so many strengths, it's tough to choose the right direction to take them. For now, our focus is less on introducing "NEW" meaningful weaknesses for Elise, and more about reducing her consistency and reliability in getting to targets."

Cocoon.png E - Cocoon WIDTH: 70 ⇒ 55 SPIDER-VISION: Fixed a bug where Cocoon was providing vision longer than the stun duration (now correctly matches it) Rappel.png E - Rappel SOME PREAMBLE: Rappel now calculates its range from the center of Elise to the center of the target ⇒ edge of Elise to the edge of the target (this means Rappel gains about +75 range) RANGE: 925 ⇒ 750 (~825 range if using the old targeting calculations)

That's 6 nerfs in a row on Elise (ignoring the bugfix that helped her). That's obscene to how much Riot has dedicated to making a champion weak. Some of nerfs are reasonable, like the neurotoxin and venomous bite changes to make her have more risk/reward mechanics, but this cluster of wanting to destroy a champion's ability to do much is just WTF.

Riot has certainly emphasized Elise's weaknesses, but what the hell are her strengths? She can max cocoon to try to gank early and snowball team like she was originally meant to do, but wait, that makes her ability to fight anyone and clear jungle crap. She can max neurotoxin for better objective control, but that leaves her ganks weak and the new jungle makes her sustain weak. She can max Skittering Frenzy to let her farm jungle really well, but she isn't a late game scaler.

Tourian3 votes

I was aware of all this but seeing them all together makes me want to cry ;_; This is how I translate the last nerf on her "So we can get away with nerfing lee sin a bit, we're going to destroy Elise and Eve to cover it up." Seriously, the last nerf on her was absolutely unnecessary, same goes for eve, who I even admit to hating playing against, but its not fair for her to be useless. The only thing that keeps Elise playable now is that old Golem is basically back. Seriously riot, bring back the bonus MR and Armor at the least so she can lane if you dont want her jungling this bad.

brad3 votes

a little??????

elise went from top tier to urgot and lee sin almost started a riot(lol) when they tried to reduce his ult damage

Rinky Dinky3 votes

Elise is not as weak as people are making her out to be. She is getting played competitivly. Thats a sign right there that she is not trash or nonviable.

Not only that, but I have seen her played in master tier in all elo's successfully. You juist have to know how to play her. She is alot stronger than you think.

Everyone was saying that Leblanc sucked total ass. Even after they buffed her constantly, everyone kept saying she sucked. She never sucked after the silence removal. She still had huge mobility and play making potential, not to mention her damage. Now that she is top tier again, everyone is saying she is OP (Which is sad because she is no where near as broken as she was pre-silence, Leblanc is very much balanced)

The majority of the time guys, a champion is fine where they are. Not popular does not mean not viable. Elise is very strong still.

Edit: I realize Lee Sin is overpowered, and he honestly is not a good champion to compare elise too. No one can be compared to Lee Sin. He is Lee Sin. I can promise you that if he got gutted, or put in his place (BALANCED), Elise would be a very good pick. Shit, half of the jungler roster would be insta god tier with the removal of Lee.

Tentacle Love2 votes

The thing is, Leblanc's not really strong so much as right now, Assassins are horribly overpowered just by virtue of being assassins. I suspect it's mostly due to the Jungle changes, there's effectively a gold and XP tax on the jungler and every team needs an assassin to make up for the lack of them in the Jungle role. Without an assassin on your team, squishies on the enemy team would just walk all over you because the junglers got nerfed.

Elise right now is on the border of being playable in the Jungle because she can have her spiderlings tank for her. Most pros know that if Riot ends up nerfing the Jungle soon, or buffing Junglers, or adding a second Jungling item to the game (everyone and their dog uses stalker only because none of the other enchants work near as well and they nerfed the crap out of the trailblazer), or doing any number of other things to make junglers' lives easier, Elise has the potential to explode in power. She's just shy of being able to use her spiders to tank and actually BE an assassin jungler. She just can't do that right now, and has to build tanky.

Junkο2 votes

a little too hard?

TheKingDodo2 votes

what if riot's just testing the nerfs out on elise before they try their hands on lee?

RainbowIcee1 votes

{quoted}

what if riot's just testing the nerfs out on elise before they try their hands on lee?

I think we all know lee sin needs a balance rework. Not as harsh as Gragas though mind you. That was just butcher.

Salidfingers2 votes

its dumb that over half the champions are handy capped.

I have on many occasions destroyed Lee's, Eve, Rek, and Elise During ganks. So to me they are underwhelming and other champions seem much worst. Even then a fed champ, is a fed champ.

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

The nerfs that Riot had made to Elise in patch 4.13 and 4.4 made her really weak

seriously? i didnt notice in the storm of other ppl posting it and EVEN REDS STATING THAT ELISE IS OVERNERFED BECAUSE SHE CAN BECOME A SECOND LEE SIN

YOU BEEN WARNED1 votes

They just played her on ESL tourney. By that logic she should be nerfed along with Lee $in since they're crowding out champion variety. Point is, she is slightly more underpowered than Lee. Still gets played for the kit, which is why they still play Lee. In fact both of these champions deserve buffs.

Terchio1 votes

Why is this stuff so crazy common now that she's getting a buff on PBE? I mean, sure she needs more, probably, but everyone and their dog is on this as soon as she lands on the buff list.

ADCry1 votes

What has been bothering me is she is extremely weak when jungling yes she has a fantastic ganking potential but her early game camp taking ability leaves her even more useless than when she is not in the jungle even with the right it become quite a problem taking camps and the constant health pots and recalling does not leave much early game and maybe even mid game ganks, That is just what i have observed.

ADCry1 votes

sorry i ment to say "with the right smite it becomes" not "with the right it become" hahaha lolz

Kairya1 votes

... I find the comparisons to Lee Sin somewhat pointless. Elise is a very different kind of champion in my opinion.

But i would agree, that she has been taken down a notch too far. Elise is a favorite of mine and I play her regularly since last Winter. Elise can still be very strong, if she has a good start, in other words, early kills. But every fed champion is a threat, simply because he is fed.

If she has some kind of trouble in the beginning, then thats pretty much it. In my experience it's very hard to get her back on track. Her remaining Mid-Game Power is more or less wasted. And without a good Mid-Game her Late-Game also suffers. She has a great risk to become a good-for-nothing in Late-Game, because everyone else can do everything she can, but better. Of course she still has her cc, which is never bad, but it can be dodged or missfired. She is an off-tank, an off-mage and shes neither a supporter nor an adc. Her recommended building-path makes her a tank shredder, but if she has money trouble, she tends to be too squishy to dare get close and try to shred. (Or she builds something tanky and can get close, but will still do little shredding)

Yes she has a good gap-close/escape mechanism, but there are enough champions who have a follow up, especially since she is predictable. While most Junglers can jump wherever they want, she can only jump on enemy-targets and jungle-camps. Besides, if you miscaculate, Rappel easily becomes a very good suicide-mechanism. It also has a very long cool-down. There is another problem to Rappel: You directly click your Rappel on someone/thing. Usually this means, she should jump on that object without delay. But if the target leaves her range, while she is "going up", she just stays there. Just hanging around... At best it costs valuable time, at worst it kills her, because she can't jump anywhere else and everyone knows where she will go down. You might wonder, why I concentrate my argumentation so much on her Rappel. I always thought that this is her defining skill. This is her niche as THE spider. There is no other skill quite like it.

Her damage is mediocre because she appereantly poses a big risk to the enemy. And she does, but she also poses a big risk to herself, as most assasin-type champions do. But another assasin trademark is high damage. I have to admit this: Offically she is not categorised as Assasin-Type. Elises main category is Mage. All other Mages are Mid-Laners with the exeption of Vlad. All of those Mid-Laners have a lot of damage and are somewhat squishy. Elise doesn't fit in with them very well, no matter how I think about it. (Her secondary category is Fighter, which I find odd)

Riot always emphasizes how important it is, that a champion has a clearly defined niche, a strong identity. Well I find Elise has become a bit fuzzy around the edges. What is this champion supposed to be good at exactly?

Terra Booma1 votes

I dunno, I know she's not as strong as she was, and I only just started playing her a few weeks before the new skin came out. But I've been having fun.

Maybe it's that I've got no fucking idea how to build her (Is it MPen or tank? I've been doing a mix) But she' the first champ that I've managed not to get into some sort of cookie cutter build idea

Terra Booma1 votes

I dunno, I know she's not as strong as she was, and I only just started playing her a few weeks before the new skin came out. But I've been having fun.

Maybe it's that I've got no fucking idea how to build her (Is it MPen or tank? I've been doing a mix) But she' the first champ that I've managed not to get into some sort of cookie cutter build idea

Dingding1231 votes

I uhh

see a lot of buffs there

rappel 14scd and longer range tankier spiderlings and now she has a 2 second stun you should be playing as AD elise now so you can keep melting things and being op thank me later

TheSaltyScourge1 votes

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