Stop Zyra's Rework!

Br3va·Mar 30, 2016·2 votes·1,563 views

Zyra is a great support (poor mid laner imo which is fine) for those who take the time to learn her and there is not another champ like her, due to her unique reliance on her plants not straightforward cast spells there are many combos you can use for different situations and resourcing her seeds is vital. If you put the time into her and have a strategic mind you can control whole area's and team fights. There are mages that need TLC far more than Zyra IMO (Ryze (one of your champ killer reworks), karma, xerath?). Not every champ has to appeal to the masses or your riot rework team, Zyra has a small but very dedicated fan base. Reworking her will lose you players not gain you any. A new skin would be nice though, like shurima zyra?

Please Zyra mains make yourselves heard! VOTE UP IF YOU DO NOT WANT A ZYRA REWORK! (Not able to post poll).

30 Comments

Icy Hot ShotoMar 30, 20163 votes

As someone who plays Zyra casually from time to time, I can tell you that yes she DOES need this rework.

Everything about her is great, she's a plant who created a human form for herself after she ate a witch and saw her memories. The way she utilizes plants with her other three skills is also great, but her only great combo is her e-w-q-w, in which you cast the spell then immediately drop a seedling for it to grow. But sometimes you only have time to do a e + w or e-w-w combo which, though it does do good damage the more AP you have, isn't always helpful. Especially if the person has enough mobility or reaction speed to dodge your snare in the first place.

Not only that, her plants have horrible AI as LostFrost said. Her plants attack the last thing you attacked if it's in range and sometimes when you die, their focus turns to minions before you even shoot off your passive.

As I said in the beginning, yes, she needs this rework. And hopefully it will add her plants into play more like Riot wants as well as having better AI.

Br3vaMar 30, 20161 votes

Can I ask then, if you don't need to direct your plants on to a target (and this seems like a quality of life thing not a full rework matter) and you stop the "Especially if the person has enough mobility or reaction speed to dodge your snare in the first place." (So we have a new Annie?). What counter play would you have for people facing her? Or would she run around instantaneously CCing poeple and blowing them up?

Sorry if I come across as captious it's just I'm struggling to see why a healthy champ needs reworking and wish to understand where these view points are coming from and why (aswell I love friendly debate).

Tbh though after seeing Ryze and Mordekaiser (some others too) get reworked, fail to find balance and now neglected (due to not enough foresight into counter play?). I have a strong fear of this happening to Zyra.

Icy Hot ShotoMar 30, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Can I ask then, if you don't need to direct your plants on to a target (and this seems like a quality of life thing not a full rework matter) and you stop the "Especially if the person has enough mobility or reaction speed to dodge your snare in the first place." (So we have a new Annie?). What counter play would you have for people facing her? Or would she run around instantaneously CCing poeple and blowing them up?

Sorry if I come across as captious it's just I'm struggling to see why a healthy champ needs reworking and wish to understand where these view points are coming from and why (aswell I love friendly debate).

Tbh though after seeing Ryze and Mordekaiser (some others too) get reworked, fail to find balance and now neglected (due to not enough foresight into counter play?). I have a strong fear of this happening to Zyra.

Her plants work without you even directing them, but if you attack something that's in their range that's what they choose to attack rather then focusing, say, enemy champions in their range.

I also never said for her to become Annie. I was just saying for her full combo to be fully utilized, you need to hit the snare. You can't expect to hit her full combo if the snare misses as one of her great combos includes the snare itself. She's like early game and sometimes late game Lux in that matter, though both are strong and can chunk without the use of the snare, they get a better chance at doing any damage when their snare lands.

Br3vaMar 30, 20161 votes

I never said you did, I just insinuate this would be the result. I agree missing her E makes it hard to follow up with an all in burst combo, but that is what divides a good Zyra player to a poor one.

Also (friendly chit chat) this season with the buff to item 3116 I rely more on using her Q plants for zone CC and E with out plants for peeling more than using all her resources on a burst. Although I still use the burst combo often enough just not as much as previous seasons. TY for the replies btw

ChortleMar 30, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Also (friendly chit chat) this season with the buff to I rely more on using her Q plants for zone CC and E with out plants for peeling more than using all her resources on a burst. Although I still use the burst combo often enough just not as much as previous seasons. TY for the replies btw

With the rampant use of item 3009 Rylais actually is seen as less useful (25% slow reduction) especially when playing support due to its strange and expensive build path. Your slow with vine lashers is actually stronger although not ranged.

Rushing magic pen is more practical.

I took a moment to check your previous matches and would like to recommend you try Thunderlord's Decree on her instead of DFT. Most Zyra mains run Thunderlord's.

Br3vaMar 30, 20161 votes

Not sure if it shows I started on thunderlords and i do like it for more lane bulling. But i feel 15-20 min in Death fire touch gives you a lot more (as you can continuously proc it and on multiple people). Tbh I think they both work well on her but each in their own way. I preff Mpen when I'm trying to carry harder again this is what I love about Zyra she has so much versatility (other than tank.. please no). I do like this kind of chat though :).

L0ve Is BlueMar 30, 20162 votes

The fact is that most people want to see her played mid, so you won't get a lot of people on your side by stating you think it's fine for her to be weak mid. And she DOES need an update, some part of her kit feel very clunky (especialy passive and flowers AI)

Br3vaMar 30, 20161 votes

I feel we have enough mid laners and I was under the impression that this rework was to make her more sup focused. As for she "DOES need an update" if she is maintaining a healthy win rate where is the need? If you take the long cast time off her passive (feel less clunky) it will be a straight up buff (easier skill landing = more hits = more damage) which will mean she needs nerf's to weaken her else where to compensate for this now missing weak spot.

L0ve Is BlueMar 30, 20162 votes

Zyra was a mid laner to begin with and a serie of nerfs forced her into mid lane since it's too dangerous for her to go mid nowaday. She only goes bot because that is where she is strong since her ADC can do the aggro whore while she cast her spells.

I was under the impression that this rework was to make her more sup focused

Players complained so much about her being balanced around support that Riot canceled that and decided to balance her for no specific role instead of making her more of a support.

if she is maintaining a healthy win rate where is the need?¸

Riot doesn't give a single flying fuck about win rate. They are reworking Zyra to make her more interesting, to fix her flaws and to give her an identity as a counter initiation mage.

If you take the long cast time off her passive (feel less clunky)

Her passive doesn't feel clunky because it's hard to hit, it's intended that a true damage AOE skillshot that you can cast while being untargetable should be hard to land. It feels clunky because it just doesn't fit her ranged mage kit, that should involve staying at a distance and being in the back line, not dying in the middle of the enemy team. The rioter responsible of Zyra's update said they were probably going to give her a totaly new passive.

PhenyxsMar 30, 20162 votes

Down vote your post. Give her the rework. And I do play her and I like her and the small changes will help. Why would you want to try stopping a champion rework?

Br3vaMar 30, 20161 votes

And I do play her. When? http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-history/NA1/229617060

You can select for only zyra games top right, you don't seem to have played her once.

PhenyxsMar 30, 20161 votes

{quoted}

And I do play her. When? http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-history/NA1/229617060

You can select for only zyra games top right, you don't seem to have played her once.

What? If your looking in my history look better. Second I disagree with you. Simple.

Br3vaMar 30, 20161 votes

Look for yourself you don't have a game on Zyra in your history and you can search by champ so it's not hard. Secondly well thank you for your subjective opinion on a champ you don't even play but lying about playing her to give said opinion more weight is pathetic.

PhenyxsMar 31, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Look for yourself you don't have a game on Zyra in your history and you can search by champ so it's not hard. Secondly well thank you for your subjective opinion on a champ you don't even play but lying about playing her to give said opinion more weight is pathetic.

Don't need to look for myself. Your clueless on this whole pitch and if your saying I haven't played her well your wrong again. Have a nice day.

LostFr0stMar 30, 20161 votes

I'm fairly sure that most of the mages are getting tweaks during the update (even those not listed by Riot).

I have to disagree in Zyra not needing the attention. Her AI isn't reliable and she doesn't have a fallback pattern. Zyra is fun now though and I hope they amp that up to 11.

Zyra mains have been very vocal on her MYMU post and seem happy she's getting looked at (besides the support/mid argument). She has more comments on her post than any other mage. even more than cass.
All that with her post being put up later than the rest.

Yes Zyra has many combos, but right now there is a clear 'best combo' with her other combos being just worse and used when the best one can't/doesn't have time to get used.

Br3vaMar 30, 20161 votes

You dont even seem to play zyra (from your match history) so I'm not sure what you are basing these opinions on. This is a champ who IMO has a very high skill floor, players who try her as F2P will come off underwhelmed. If you look though her history she has had a reliably healthy win rate. Yes her kit (the AI can be quirky at times) has some weakness but that is part of balance. No champ can have their cake and eat it. This is how you end up with over loaded kits that cant be balanced. As for her combo's I'm guessing you're talking about her all in burst combo, which is the best combo for an all in blow up squishes but which mage doesn't have a primary max damage out put combo? But if you try to use this combo while kiting away from a tank you will get yourself killed vs other more sustained CC combos. Learning when to use which is why zyra is so good with more hours of play.

LostFr0stMar 30, 20161 votes

I have friends that main Zyra and who have been talking my ear off since the talk of a rework came up... Trust me, I've heard plenty on Zyra. I'll hear even more once she hits the pbe and I'm optimistically bracing myself for it.

No, I don't play Zyra myself. I tried her a few times and she doesn't seem to match my playstyle.
(dot/kite mages and generally champs that don't have dashes) I'll give her another go once she hits pbe.

If you go through her MYMU thread you'll see what I'm referring to by the Zyra mains being very vocal http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/xVQr7ihf-mid-year-mage-updates-zyra-direction

TheLastShadow45Mar 30, 20161 votes

I know some Zyra mains and they want her to get some changes.

Br3vaMar 30, 20161 votes

It would be nice to hear from them about a champ they care about.

IxtaliKingMar 30, 20161 votes

Zyra is being reworked because she has a lot of untapped potential, I think they're going in the right direction with Zyra in regards to having greater plant interaction. I do agree Xerath could use some work and lord knows Karma needs her rework to actually be finished at some point.

Br3vaMar 30, 20161 votes

Hay, I can't really comment on karma to much as I don't player her so i don't have experience or an invested interest. I saw from your match history your Zyra games win or lose looked positive (I'd argue same for my Zyra games) and her win rate is more than healthy 52%. So I have to wonder how does one release more "potential" without making her over whelming in your opinion?

IxtaliKingMar 30, 20161 votes

Lol I did better with Zyra last season, I go on and off maining her from time to time xD. When I say her untapped potential I mean from a thematic perspective, not so much in terms of power. Being a plant mage sets certain expectations Zyra current doesn't hit, so it would be great opportunity to address that. I'd hope when her rework is done she'll be a much more viable mid laner though.

Br3vaMar 30, 20161 votes

Ahh I see what you are saying, I at the moment feel she a unique champ and worry she will not be able to be balanced post rework. TBH though I don't care for mid lane Zyra, I feel supports are more needed in the game right now but thank you for your thoughts.

IxtaliKingMar 30, 20161 votes

Oh I agree the game needs more supports, but that just means riot needs to make more actual supports - rather than nerf a mage into bot lane to act like one.

ChortleMar 30, 20161 votes

Can everyone stop calling this a rework?

She is getting updated. Updates are not nearly as much change as reworks.

Most of her kit will be staying the same.

BeldairMar 30, 20161 votes

I love my Zyra support, but i trust that Riot will give her thrown back as the Queen of Plants with this rework. Her Plant AI is buggy and her passive is just useless. So this rework will be good.

Br3vaMar 30, 20161 votes

But you can't have everything, a champ should have weaknesses, strengths and counter plays. TBH I don't have much faith in Riots reworks (not saying all are bad) like Mordekaiser, although I didn't play him and don't now so Morde mains correct me (I'm going off impressions and play/win stats). Some other reworks have removed unique champs (I.E. Fiora) and replaced them with a nice but all be it a different champ.

BeldairMar 31, 20161 votes

She is still gonna have her weaknesses but one of the changes is giving her a better passive.

And i play Morde and don't mind jos changes.

Fiora's was to nerf her...the double dash of hers was too strong for Riot's liking.