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State of Vel'koz?

ZedGong··1 votes·711 views

Any Rioters, what do you think of this?

item 1056 I think part of the reason why people don't want Riot to touch Vel'koz is because out of the champions listed, he actually doesn't seem to fit the criteria for the rework. I'm also of that mindset, particularly for these reasons:

  1. He's balanced. Even rioters acknowledge this.

  2. He's distinct. He is one of two mages that deals consistent true damage. However, Ahri's true damage really isn't part of her identity at all. No one picks Ahri for her true damage; they pick her because she's as an assassin mage with a flexible escape/dive ult and good damage on her spells. People pick Vel'koz, on the other hand, to deal a heaping amount of damage. However, as many Vel'koz players know, a huge amount of his damage comes from his true damage passive. If you've ever played against a good Vel'koz player, you know the fear that hits you until the second proc disappears. Also, giant purple laser of doom.

  3. He's in a perfectly healthy spot. Part of this goes back to point one, but it's also got a lot to do with the ability to pick up and play. He's challenging. Yes, you can pick up and choose to play him like Lux, but it takes more than average amount of practice to get used to his entire kit. His q is the hardest to master and requires geometry. His w does more damage on the second proc and landing that is hard (for a good reason). His e animation takes forever and a day. And in the League of Dash, you have to be picky when you fire your ult. Also, assassins counter Vel'koz hard. Harder than Chuck Norris counters the world.

  4. He is rewarding to play. Back to the end of point two, when you hit the second tick, you're eager to activate the passive. Combine that with thunderlords and you've effectively cut their health in half with one combo at level three. But it's not that easy to land that third proc (mostly because the other laner wont let you if they're worth their salt). But the most rewarding situation is when your team baits the enemy into the ultimately perfect scenario: the wombo combo jungle fight. In a team of Rumble, Wukong, Vel'koz, Miss Fortune, and Sona on blue and the enemy has just killed dragon, if they retreat up the left jungle ramp and your Sona flash ults all five...I think you get it. Even if it's just Sona and Vel'koz...that's scary.

item 1056 How does Vel'koz compare to other champions? Poke champs (Xerath/Nid/Ziggs/etc): Most people think that Xerath and Vel'koz are similar. They're not. Yes, Vel'koz can throw q harass, but Vel'koz thrives in the team fights. He wants the enemy team to try and engage and when they line up nice and neat like ducks in a row, he'll vomit all his purple light on them to chunk the entire team for more than half its collective health at once in under two seconds flat. Poke champs CAN team fight, but they'd much prefer to have their team let them poke first, then engage when the enemy is low. Vel'koz is fine either way, as long as the enemy team is lined up straight.

Lux: Chuck bindings till you like who you catch, replay Death Star vs Alderaan, then let your team pick a fight 4v5. Not really similar.

Brand: I find Brand and Vel'koz to be the most similar. Both of them like to play in cramped quarters and both of their ideal teamfights take place in the jungle. Vel'koz likes to line people up and vomit purple light aaaaaall over everyone. Brand doesn't care as much, as long as the enemy are generally clumped up so he can kill everyone with fire. Brand's not as much a tank killer as Vel'koz, but both of them are made for the team fight.

Zyra: Also a team fight oriented champ. However, because of her e and r, Zyra leans more towards disruption rather than the wombo combo.

Ori: Ori and Vel'koz are similar because they both like the wombo combo situation and both are key components of a wombo combo. However, I'd argue Vel'koz is more damage oriented in the wombo combo while Ori is more utility oriented there in the setup of it. In a team with Malph, Ori, Vel, MF, and Sona, Malphite would bring the engage, Sona and Ori would make sure the enemy stays still while Vel'koz and MF bring the pain.

item 1056 What can Riot change to make Vel'koz more unique? I do think that making Vel'koz a true damage tank killer mage (like Vayne) would be an interesting path to push him towards. Maybe instead of the second proc of his W dealing extra damage over his first proc, make both procs do the same amount of damage, but add % health damage to the second proc? That way, it feels more impactful against tanks and it rewards even more good gameplay around his W, plus it identifies him even more as a tank killer.

Or if you really want to make Vel'koz the Vayne of mages, turn his passive into % health true damage.

4 Comments

Zero Skill Tank1 votes

If you look at Vel'koz pick rate history, you will see how strongly he is affected by FOTM syndrome.

This is because most of the time he isn't picked for his true damage, or any of his qualities - most of the time he is picked because at the moment he happens to be the strongest of similar mages.

http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/velkoz/all

ZedGong2 votes

A vast majority of champs are affected by FotM syndrome. That's not a reason to rework champions. You don't rework Shen just because he's affected by FotM, you rework him because his kit is outdated, he's got bland abilities (Riot's words, not mine), and he's one of the oldest champs in the game.

Vel'koz suffers from none of these things. And Vel'koz's pick rate, like all immobile champs, depends on their strength AND the strength of assassins. Riot wants you to have a reason to pick things, right? Well, why would you pick Vel'koz when the enemy team has a Zed top Leblanc mid?

The problem with FotM syndrome is that it's an over generalization of too many factors in the game. You could argue that VK and Ziggs are the same because, on a very VERY basic and broad level, they play similarly. However, if you really take the time to learn the champs, you realize their gameplay is actually extremely different.

Also, please clarify the similarities between the mages, as you see them.

LatetotheRace1 votes

I partially agree with point 2 and 4 but I kind of disagree on 3. He needs a tiny little boost to put him into real viability. I love playing Vel'koz, but if you miss the e on an assassin it's game over, and due to the long cd Zhonya's won't really save you. I think a simple solution to making him a bit more healthy is to make his w give him a small speed buff, similar to orb of deception. This would make him a bit safer of a pick as you now have a bit more to work with in the anti-assassin department.

Also we don't need %max health true damage, that's something that is impossible to balance properly.

ZedGong2 votes

That's exactly why he's I say he's in a healthy spot. The point isn't to make him the most OP pick ever. The point is to give him clear strengths and weaknesses, which he has. Against short and mid range teams, Vel'koz thrives. Put a Zed or Lissandra in there and he suffers. However, even then he has a chance to fight back with his E. You just have to play it exactly correct or you're screwed.

I'd argue that's part of the definition of a healthy champion: clear strengths and weaknesses, can outplay in disadvantageous situations only when played correctly, and rewarding to play.

I think giving him a speed boost for his W would actually take away from his identity. I mean, his flashiest move, his ult, requires him to root in place and vomit everything he has all over the enemy team. I mean, I guess they did something similar with MF's w, but I don't think Vel'koz needs it as much as MF. He already has his knockup/stun for escape. It's sort of like with Xerath prerework: he rooted down and extended the range of his abilities, making him a sniper. Vel'koz isn't a sniper, but he does root down and shred people. Also, people have a hard enough time as it is chasing a Vel'koz, ha ha ha.

I only offered % max health true damage as a suggestion. And that would also suggest that Vayne can never be balanced properly, which I would argue otherwise, but that's a topic for another post from a Vayne main. :)

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