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About Quasus

HIHI Meito··16 votes·4,408 views

If you don't know what Quasus is, it's the Nasus build which requires you to max E first and build zz'rot first item and basically full tank after, with a couple doran's rings before that. Its name is related to his creator (at least most famous user), Quas.

Let's head straight to my point, can we have this nerfed to the ground so it's not playable anymore?

To be honest even if you don't consider him being really strong, it's both very boring to play against and it also destroys the champ's identity. Let me develop these 2 things.

Played this way, Nasus creates massive lane pressure through pushing the wave very fast. He's not the only one to that, but the annoying thing about quasus is that he does that through going full tank with a fairly long ranged spell that is big enough to have whole wave inside it. That is just not fun, and pretty much removes interaction from the lane. If quasus doesn't want you to hit him, you won't, or if you do you might lose every single creep to your tower. Not mentionning that he can poke you with that E as well if you're standing on top of your wave, which most melee toplaners do to farm themselves. He pushes over and over and forces you to back eventually. Once he has ult he even gets kill and dive potential on most champions. You can get as much MR as you want, your minions won't get MR and he'll still push all day, limiting the possible interactions you can have with him. Not mentionning that building MR exposes you to his physical dmg because even if this build deals mostly magical dmg, the 40 armor debuff from E will makes his auto attacks / Qs hurt no matter how many stacks he has. Once he has ZZ'rot Portal it gets even worse.

About his identity now. Nasus is supposed to be a tank whose power grows over time, very weak early game but a fairly good teamfighter and one of the best duellists in late game, because of how he can build tank and deals a lot of damage through his Q stacking. And that is what the champion is supposed to be built around. His Q. Quasus just ignores that. He gets almost no stacks and is still a powerhouse mid game, with a decent early and lategame. This just feels unhealthy. A champion that gets to ignore his main spell because of a build that allows him to.

I've always liked Nasus ever since i started to play League at the end of season 3. But this is just not him.

Please do something about it.

By the way, forgive me if i did any grammar mistakes, english is not my mother tongue.

29 Comments

Catastrop11 votes

This isn't destroying Nasus' identity in anyway. E max variants of Nasus have existed since his release and it's nothing more than an alternate playstyle. He trades all his late game power for a stronger early-mid, it's a fair trade off. It's not even that hard to beat, play someone with equal waveclear pressure and you're good.

HIHI Meito2 votes

And it's never been popular because it wasn't good like it never should be. His ult changes makes it much more viable at every stage of the game after level 6. Also at Nasus release, ZZ'Rot wasn't even close to existing.

C10 Rekkles1 votes

[deleted]

Tychusfindlay9191 votes

{quoted}

Despite not being popular until Quas reintroduced there has been a small portion of people whom done this before. His changes never affected anything he's just being more tanky than an actual juggernaut so how does that even correlate?

It correlates well, with the old ult that gave AD from the damage done, quasus would have been irrelevant since by level 6 all he would get is some bonus HP and his enemy would run his ass down because of the abysmal amount of stacking he had. The fall-off would continue at level 11 and level 16 as a stackless nasus with the old ult was a useless nasus.

The fact that his ult makes him a lot tankier and no longer gives bonus AD is exactly why quasus can exist without getting punished too heavily, because the player playing quasus knows that his lane opponent will have a tough time running him down as he slams each wave with E. The ult making nasus tankier is the entire reason why quasus even became popular. There is no real way to severely punish a stackless nasus post-6 without goon squadding him because of the new ult. This arguably applies to Q max nasus too, but E max nasus is better because it impacts the game much earlier than Q nasus which is helpful in a meta of short games/games decided in a short time.

With how fast games are decided, why the hell go Q max nasus anymore? Once you scale into a legitimate carry your nexus or the enemy nexus is in direct danger anyways.

C10 Rekkles1 votes

[deleted]

Tychusfindlay9191 votes

{quoted}

This arguably applies to Q max nasus too

Right so explain to me how his ult is the reasoning for this? Cause that right there is just contradicting yourself.

It's not contradicting myself. It's good for both playstyles, but better for the E max playstyle because the E max playstyle fits into the current meta of short games. The logic isn't too hard to fall on, but I will guide you if need be.

The old passive on the ult was good only for the Q max which is an "in your face" type of playstyle, whereas this new ult benefits both playstyles equally.

Zalieri7 votes

play the champ first. That nasus build is pretty ez to beat imo. Either get an early to mid game jgler to gank him lvl 1-8. Or just roam with you jgler and kill mid and the enemy jgler. Another alternative instead of building mr, like most players do and lose lane, is to build a zz'rot of your own or a ravenous, statik, etc. for wave clear. Think about it, his e at lvl 1-3 does not clear the entire minion wave. Something to also consider is not standing in your minion wave, so he has to choose between e'ing you or the wave. Either way, you can still play aggro since e cost a lot of mana and you want him to waste it spamming e. Nasus counters: Pantheon Darius Teemo Olaf Illaoi Fiora and anyone with sustain or tons of dmg. Everyone beats nasus early, except for tanks

HIHI Meito4 votes

A gank is not an option since he doesn't really need to put himself in a dangerous position to E the wave because of the range.

Roaming against a hard pushing champion? Seems like a bad idea unless you want to lose your inhib by min 20. Especially more now turret first blood was implemented.

Waveclearing as well doesn't change the major issue which is player interaction. This is a PvP game. Clearing the wave as melee champion building no damage stats for a long distance is not healthy. Which is the major difference between Quasus / another pushing champion match up and 2 pushing champions other than Quasus match up.

I don't see how half of your 'counters' counter Quasus to be honest. Pantheon is squishy and can't deal with Quasus once he gets armor because he is outdamaged / sustained, only good before first / first two recall(s). Darius needs to put himself in a very dangerous position to bully Quasus which exposes him to ganks, while Quasus as i said above is not very vulnerable himself to ganks. Teemo? No? Teemo is basically the same as pantheon but even more squishy, with the difference that he can't both farm and poke at the same time like Pantheon does because he pokes you with his auto attacks, which makes the match up even worse for Teemo. Illaoi is not good into Quasus. She has fairly low stats in early game. She is good at pushing but cannot trade with Quasus since he can stay away from her and sustain through her E dmg after is tanky enough, and then he can poke her down.

I see your points for Olaf and Fiora, even though you can argue Fiora's early is really hard against Quasus because of her inabilty to push. But this comes to the same point again. You expose yourself to ganks to deal with him, and he doesn't.

Tychusfindlay9191 votes

{quoted}

A gank is not an option since he doesn't really need to put himself in a dangerous position to E the wave because of the range.

Roaming against a hard pushing champion? Seems like a bad idea unless you want to lose your inhib by min 20. Especially more now turret first blood was implemented.

Waveclearing as well doesn't change the major issue which is player interaction. This is a PvP game. Clearing the wave as melee champion building no damage stats for a long distance is not healthy. Which is the major difference between Quasus / another pushing champion match up and 2 pushing champions other than Quasus match up.

I don't see how half of your 'counters' counter Quasus to be honest. Pantheon is squishy and can't deal with Quasus once he gets armor because he is outdamaged / sustained, only good before first / first two recall(s). Darius needs to put himself in a very dangerous position to bully Quasus which exposes him to ganks, while Quasus as i said above is not very vulnerable himself to ganks. Teemo? No? Teemo is basically the same as pantheon but even more squishy, with the difference that he can't both farm and poke at the same time like Pantheon does because he pokes you with his auto attacks, which makes the match up even worse for Teemo. Illaoi is not good into Quasus. She has fairly low stats in early game. She is good at pushing but cannot trade with Quasus since he can stay away from her and sustain through her E dmg after is tanky enough, and then he can poke her down.

I see your points for Olaf and Fiora, even though you can argue Fiora's early is really hard against Quasus because of her inabilty to push. But this comes to the same point again. You expose yourself to ganks to deal with him, and he doesn't.

Not true, the one issue with quasus is that the enemy can freeze wave under tower, and quasus WILL have to put himself in a vulnerable position to continue exerting lane pressure.

Darius still counters quasus very very hard.

He can freeze wave under turret and walk up to quasus if he wants to keep Eing.

Quasus isn't an invincible god, just a very frustrating playstyle (and IMO boring and uninteractive, as you have stated)>

HIHI Meito1 votes

{quoted}

Quasus isn't an invincible god, just a very frustrating playstyle (and IMO boring and uninteractive, as you have stated)>

Well that was actually my main point.

Also i entirely agree that Darius is good against Quasus in 1v1. But freezing exposes Darius to getting poked since Nasus' E range is bigger than Darius' Q or E, and eventually to a 1v2 dive.

It Hertz When IP1 votes

Isn't building Zzrot's against Nasus up there with chasing Singed on the list of shit you REALLY don't want to do?

Maximum Morde1 votes

No, you don't get stacks off Zzrot.

HIHI Meito2 votes

You do. But since Quasus doesn't focus on stacking this is not a major problem.

Maximum Morde1 votes

I'll have to test it. You don't get them with Veigar. It makes the sound and graphic +1 but doesn't give you the AP. I would have assumed it was the same with Nasus.

kile1472 votes

You get stacks off anything, even wards.

Romtheguy1 votes

And even a couple of patches ago, they fixed a bug that didn't allow Nasus Q to get a stack off of Gangplank's barrels!

Hunted90002 votes

This form of nasus counters teemo and illaoi, he can just out range teemo and farm at the same time which is usually what good nasus's do in that matchup anyway and it counters illaoi because he can stack on your tentacles as well as stay out of range once he pushes you to tower.

Tychusfindlay9193 votes

It's not broken, it's frustrating to play against, but not broken.

The problem with quasus is that going Q max nasus feels a little like a shit in this meta where games are decided like 15 minutes in. There's no time in most games nowadays to properly stack and scale into that dueling god nasus was intended to be. The ult buff helped Q nasus, but if anything, it further facilitated E max nasus builds way more than it did Q max nasus builds.

Riot needs to slow games down by either reducing death timers again or making towers more than just gold bags. If games can be slowed down a bit, E max nasus can subside a bit.

Q max is still the go-to in high elo though, so it's not like Q max nasus is dead, but it's definitely a bit frustrating to try and pull off with how fast games are decided these days.

"quasus decent late game"

Hah, you're funny, quasus has a very forgettable late game. The point of quasus is to pressure and provide a ton of early game shred in teamfights to get his carries going so that he can be carried mid-late game with his abysmal amount of Q stacks. If the rest of quasus' team isn't ahead, then quasus himself just becomes a deadweight, whereas Q max nasus actually does have solid carry potential.

Alternatively, Riot can make Nasus's E no longer have an instant nuke component but deal a lot more damage per tick (overall damage still the same as current values). This way E max nasus can be a bit less frustrating in the sense that he can still push like a motherfucker but can't reliably push and poke people out entirely (unless they stick around inside his E). At the same time though, there needs to be a better incentive to stack Q. Whether thats 4/8 stacks per Q or a bonus for every 100 stacks or something, the Q as it stands right now is just a frustrating ability that, by the time it becomes satiated, the game is usually over anyways.

HIHI Meito1 votes

I am myself a pretty high elo player, and i see Quasus more than 'classical' Nasus.

I agree with most of your points listed above though, even if it would be easier to nerf Quasus, a change to towers and death timers is required as well in my opinion.

It might not be broken but there are still very few ways to deal with it. Also the primary aim of a game is to have fun, even if League is a competitive game it is still a game. And I've seen champions less frustrating than Quasus get a rework because they were supposedly frustrating and lack counterplay (Hello Fiora!). I'm not complaining about the changes they made to Fiora because i think they're good, but i'd rather play against old Fiora than Quasus. With that being said, since Quasus is only ONE build of Nasus, why not take it away from him? This is pretty similar to the Ekko and Yasuo tank problems in my opinion. An alternative build that makes the champ so much more frustrating and hard to deal with. And both of these have been heavily nerfed.

And about his lategame, his is a very decent peeler in late in my opinion. His ult has very good damage especially against divers who build a lot of hp. He has a single target massive slow. And he can take away 40 of your armor. Which makes it super good to peel an adc.

Spicy Rice2 votes

I think it's fine.

Sure, he generates a ton of lane pressure, but in exchange, he has to rely on his team to win 4.5 v 5

It Hertz When IP2 votes

Except they don't have to win teamfights, just delay the enemy team long enough for him to take a tower here, an inhibitor there... It's back to the old splitpush scenario.

Spicy Rice2 votes

I mean, it's the same as playing against regular nasus.

Either

A. Send someone to split

Or

B. Hard engage and win the 5v4, and then go take their nexus

Tychusfindlay9191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Spicy Rice,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jdcZXiEB,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2016-12-05T15:56:58.365+0000)

I mean, it's the same as playing against regular nasus.

Either

A. Send someone to split

Or

B. Hard engage and win the 5v4, and then go take their nexus

Except E max nasus doesn't have a shitball early game, therein lies an issue.

There is little reason to Q max over E max nowadays.

Håppy2 votes

Mastery: Warlord's Bloodlust Rune page: This one Build: Start a item 3301 for 11% cdr at level 1. When you next back, pick up item 3096 and then work towards item 3057 for your triforce. If you're against AP, get a item 3139 and item 3158 then go item 3078 . After that you want lifesteal and damage. Get a item 3022 and you'll be really tanky thanks to your ult and HP bonuses still, while also being able to oneshot things. item 3031 can go a long way.

Make Stacksus great again; Go AD!

Eedat2 votes

Who cares? He's giving up every single ounce of scaling to be annoying mid game. I played against this Nasus build a few times already and you just farm under your tower for awhile then completely out scale him. He is then completely useless for the rest of the game because he has 30 stacks at 20 minutes. Legit all you have to do as a melee (I was playing Wukong) is stand next to your wave and not in it and you never get hit by the E

Nana Kouhai1 votes

Bard

Woodakoodashooda1 votes

A champion with minimal enemy interaction. Capable of building tank while still having damage and forcing enemies to build MR to survive it. Dive and kill potential with his ultimate.

Now who does that remind me of...

Oh, yes.

Singed

This freak.

HIHI Meito1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chocolate Frost,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jdcZXiEB,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2016-12-05T14:45:24.568+0000)

Oh, yes.

Singed

This freak.

I was actually thinking about Singed, and the one difference is that SInged kind of needs to proxy, which puts him in a dangerous position, especially if his team is not doing good.

And i don't think too much good of Singed either :p.

Jeddy0171 votes

About his identity now. Nasus is supposed to be a tank whose power grows over time.......

Correction: Juggernaut or Tanky Fighter or Bruiser. Nasus isn't a tank, he doesn't have the kit to be one.

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