Support champions are nerfed too hard with 8.2

JP Economy·Jan 25, 2018·11 votes·2,002 views

Riot really messed up with the changes they made to support items. The fact that there is no sightstone or upgraded support items (i.e. face of the mountain) leaves tanky supports, even other supports in general, close to useless. A primary job for a support is to ward the map and control vision. It takes about 10 minutes to even get an item that will allow you to ward and a ton of your gold in order to do so. There needs to be some kind of compensation for these changes or support players will be left feeling useless until changes are made. Ask any support main how they feel right now and they will tell you that these changes are not just different they are for the worse.

29 Comments

FOR JUSTICEJan 25, 20189 votes

I mean, I'm 99% certain I'm gonna be downvoted, but I kinda like them. because I don't need a sightstone, I can save a bit of gold and buy an actual tank item. bonus points if I took inspiration for the gold efficiency.

plus I get a bit of build leniency, because since its a quest thing:

I no longer have to rush it and give up something I can totally use
ADC dosent have to worry about me giving up vision for a bit extra poke
everyone gets it at about roughly the same time, so the enemy would have just as much vision as I do early on

2Charmnot2CharmJan 25, 20183 votes

everyone gets it at about roughly the same time, so the enemy would have just as much vision as I do early on.

Depends on how the game is going and which support item you took.

Lexanomical UnitJan 25, 20186 votes

The sightstone itself isn't my issue. I'm frustrated they took away the old quests with no real reason (just make it a higher gold value) and called it a day. Those quests were something unique to supports, and gave a bit more survival tools to some of the riskier ward ventures (the movespeed quest for the spell thief line being particularly noticable).

AzadetheJan 25, 20181 votes

Those quests weren't worth the 900g+ you save by not buying tier 3.

Lexanomical UnitJan 25, 20188 votes

I actually liked the actives, and now it'll take up another slot once they finally add them back. At least a few of us liked the ruby/tier 3 combos and appreciated the ability to choose.

ChaddyFantomeJan 25, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lexanomical Unit,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jauOZxUI,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2018-01-25T01:43:27.296+0000)

The sightstone itself isn't my issue. I'm frustrated they took away the old quests with no real reason (just make it a higher gold value) and called it a day. Those quests were something unique to supports, and gave a bit more survival tools to some of the riskier ward ventures (the movespeed quest for the spell thief line being particularly noticable).

This so much

Lios AshenbladeJan 25, 20181 votes

Basically have to take zombie wards now, to extend your vision time, otherwise you are blind after 6 or 7 minutes, as I mentioned earlier, I may just switch to something other than relic for my Leona, because that takes a while, since I try and keep at least 1 proc ready for cannon, only using it for healing when really needed

HercaZJan 25, 20181 votes

Tank items on support is one of the most useless items you can buy..

No one actually focus support in the team fights, unless you are soraka or maybe sona.
As support you need to have as much items as possible to aid your team, not only one champion.
Top laner is usually a tanky part of your team..
Tank items for support is usually benefitial only on early stages of the game. it helps you stand in the lane if your ADC is noob.

Support needs to concentrate on speed and active skills items most of the time. Because speed and ability to support your whole team is the key elements of this game, starting with providing vision to your team and about sustain in a team fights, so item 3107 and item 3306 were one of the key supporting items.. Now only left and since there is no way to decrease CDR of this item anymore it is not so useful anymore..

The rune tree is also crap.. As support you cant have items CDR, hexaflash and ult cooldowns in the same rune tree. You need to sacrifice one thing over another - not to mention that demolition is also good.

From my perspective this downgrade effected atleast ~30% of a support game play if not more...

Bondage BunnyboyJan 25, 20185 votes

Spending 800 gold on Sightstone always felt like garbage to me. This is one of the better changes I've seen in this game, alongside the Sona nerf partial revert.

Ahri BakaJan 25, 20183 votes

Riot and 60% of people in boards are blaming ad carries for being so broken , and at the end , the support role takes it again and again , seriously , they must stop with this whole support blaming thing , Yeah I know a full support Karma can shield like tons of damage with her Ult E , but at the same time It's the only thing she can do , her w is easy to dodge , her q might be helpful sometimes but , that's all she can do , no damage at all of course item 3190 and item 3107 are needed , but the enemy team should have a support too which can solve the problem , if Karma is broken " if " , then doesn't mean item 3309 item 3306 item 3312 's fault , it's her kit maybe ? while the real problem is Vayne who can perma dodge everything and 2 or 3 shoot most of champions , or Twitch who can pop up out of stealth and assassinate Leblanc and even before she thinks about moving , or Tristana who can e aa ult you , Yeah , don't blame the supports

Broken BandleJan 25, 20182 votes

So far, I've not had very many issues. I'm wondering if the frost fang line is a little weaker because you have to trade with your opponent more, or if it's stronger if you can get all those trades in and potentially have it before? Still experimenting.

2Charmnot2CharmJan 25, 20181 votes

https://i.imgur.com/hhsbyJX.jpg This was the fastest i was able to get the quest done with frost fang today. The rest of my frost fang games were at around the 10 minute mark.

AzadetheJan 25, 20182 votes

Takes me about 6 1/2 minutes to get 3 wards on item 3096

You do realize that most supports took well over 10 minutes to Sightstone before. Many took longer, because they were trying to Ardent. Sightstone used to be a 1600g mark item. Now it's 800g + the next 500 = 1300g.

HercaZJan 25, 20181 votes

Soo? and what it really give you? Nothing...

Early ganks are not so prominent, usually junglers tend to reach at least lvl 4 before ganking, also they want to have some power behind their attacks so buy at least 1 item before ganking.
Not to mention the fact, that in early ganks 2v3 is possible to run away quick or actually overpower them, depending on a champions you are facing. in short early ganking is always a risky choice and not many decide to go that way. Also it depends on a lanning and how you control the lane. Pushing your lane or winning ~15% creeps is not always an option. You can lose a little creeps but have the enemy team near your turret making them vulnarable to your jungler and increasing your chances of surviving. Farming is not the same as controlling the lane..

HashihimeJan 25, 20182 votes

Remove Locket or HEAVILY nerf it cd wise, bring back old supp items but make targons melee only (shield) and reduce the gold gained by tribute. Increase Face of the Mountain's CD. Fixxed.

Daddy AntsJan 25, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Remove Locket or HEAVILY nerf it cd wise, bring back old supp items but make targons melee only (shield) and reduce the gold gained by tribute. Increase Face of the Mountain's CD. Fixxed.

Face of the Mountain? That has been removed.

HashihimeJan 25, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Face of the Mountain? That has been removed.

read what i said before, bring back old supp items.

Don LupusJan 25, 20182 votes

At first sight, the change is good, as you don't have to buy sightstone early. But well ... the rest of the game is super boring now, without being able to build an icon that has an interesting passive. Now, after you've built the vision-item from your starting item, you have Ardent, Solaris and Redemption. Apart form that, you can chose from the lackluster offer of AP or Tank items. The role just got nerfed so hard. Especially Frost Queens "Twin Shadow" active made for some interesting gameplay situations.

Don't know if it actually nerfed them, it just made the role less interesting (coming from a support main)

AnagsJan 26, 20181 votes

Twin shadows was not interesting gameplay. It was do I need to scout my enemy? Do I need to slow my enemy? If yes press this button.

No aiming no nothing really. It just made the job easier with the click of a button.

I wouldn't call it interesting.

Don LupusJan 28, 20181 votes

Well, you could talk like that about MOST active items. I think the tracking ability WAS indeed extremely useful and could turn some "hide and seek" moments around. They could have extended the CD, but I think this active was fine. Unlike the runic-line for example (which is still pretty annoying and a completely passive thing with a lot of power)

BlakiepugJan 29, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Don Lupus,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jauOZxUI,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2018-01-25T16:44:33.623+0000)

At first sight, the change is good, as you don't have to buy sightstone early. But well ... the rest of the game is super boring now, without being able to build an icon that has an interesting passive. Now, after you've built the vision-item from your starting item, you have Ardent, Solaris and Redemption. Apart form that, you can chose from the lackluster offer of AP or Tank items. The role just got nerfed so hard. Especially Frost Queens "Twin Shadow" active made for some interesting gameplay situations.

Don't know if it actually nerfed them, it just made the role less interesting (coming from a support main)

I feel the same way. I really despise placing wards as a support main and preferred to make my mark through the use of other items such as Face of the Mountain. Now I feel like I am being forced into buying a sightstone item which I don't want because that is the only way to get my gold income as a support. Tbh, these changes are super frustrating and make me really hate a role that I once loved.

Miku Hime samaJan 26, 20182 votes

Let's face fact: the reason Rito removed Sightstone from the game and made it evolve out of support items is because they're tired of routinely punishing bronze players every day, that got reported for refusing to buy Sightstone. (Yes, Rito had publicly stated multiple times that not buying Sightstone on support is a punishable offense.)

Well guess what: they didn't fix the problem AT ALL. I still had a support who openly and LOUDLY refused to upgrade their support item for the sole and intentional purpose of not having it evolve into Sightstone. Matter of fact, halfway through the game they just straight-up sold it, gimping their residual gold-gain as well. Sightstone is a FREE evolution out of an item that you WANT to buy on support and players are still INTENTIONALLY refusing to buy Sightstone even after Rito made it FREE.

That aside, let's not forget the old adage: you can lead a support to wards, but you can't make them ward. Rito can hand supports a free Sightstone, but they can't make them use it. FFS, we can't even get people to use their damned free yellow trinkets, they spend all game sitting on 2 free wards and end with a vision score of ZERO. Did Rito really think it would be any different for supports? This doesn't even count as a band-aid fix, Rito is just rubbing some spit and dirt on a broken leg and pretending that'll fix it.

MeBuffULongTimeJan 25, 20181 votes

I used to rush sight stone first item and now I have to complete the stupid quest just to get adequate vision. I know I have control wards I can buy and my ADC can ward to but how many actually consistently ward in Bronze? Never mind the enemy bot laners are always trying to kill the little bit of vision I have. Why did they have to change anything in the first place?

Dead flag bluesJan 25, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I used to rush sight stone first item and now I have to complete the stupid quest just to get adequate vision. I know I have control wards I can buy and my ADC can ward to but how many actually consistently ward in Bronze? Never mind the enemy bot laners are always trying to kill the little bit of vision I have. Why did they have to change anything in the first place?

Because marksmen abused it. Instead of doing something about this stupid class ruining items of other classes (lethality items, Runeglaive, Frozen Gauntlet, Guardian Angel), they nerfed supports. Next what will we have ? ADCs building thornmail and Rito nerfing it too ?

Lios AshenbladeJan 25, 20181 votes

Yeah, I too always grabbed sight stone and boots on my first back, and the freaking quest annoys me, because that 500 gold for relic shield takes for freaking ever, so in a way, it was an indirect nerf to the melee supports, I may start using the damn coin on leona

HercaZJan 25, 20181 votes

Coin as starter item was very good on Alistar because it evolved in item 3306 I was usually going for item 3117 sightstone, then finishing sightstone in to ruby sightstone, going for item 3107 and buying item 3053 for overkill later on - shielding power was to OP combined with my ult.. Anyways now its ruined and alistar lost at least half of his potential in map controlling and team fights sustain..

BârdJan 25, 20181 votes

The overall impact was actually pretty low.

You still get a "sightstone", since your T2 support item upgrades into it after the quest, which doesn't take more than 10 minutes. I didn't realize this initially, which was where most of my gripes with the system came in.

There are four main differences

You can't get sight stone first back anymore, where before you'd choose between it and your T2 support item plus boots. Annoying for vulnerable supports like Sona, but not horrible.
You can't get a big support item off your gold gen. That sucks, but the eye always was more slot efficient anyways, so it's not the end of the world.
You don't have the old quests. This kind of sucks, but quests were a recent addition, so it's not like that's a major usurping of the old.
You don't go out of your way to buy sighstone anymore. You go from spending 1650 on your T2+Sighstone to only spending 850 on your T2 for essentially the same effect.

Over all, it actually feels nice. You have 800 gold to spend on whatever you want; I feel rich.

ZephyrDrakeJan 25, 20181 votes

10 minutes? the hell are you doing that you need to wait that long to trigger the sightstone reward? you even get the "rewards" faster than before since they lower the threshold to achieve said quest... if you need 10 minutes to obtain 500 gold from your gold gen item then you did something horribly wrong

TiboldJan 25, 20181 votes

If everyone's weak, no one is.

Meanwhile forgets that ADCs mean a loss or a victory and that if you're going a squishy champion that engages (Like Rakan), he can just one-shot you while you're preparing your engage.