Kha'zix is my main champion and honestly hasn't been in a good spot in the past year... Can you explain what you guys are gonna do to add power in his kit? his w and r are garbage and never evolved. his whole concept of choice doesn't even exist anymore.
RiotMeddler13 votesShort term: A base armor increase and a reduction to Q's mana cost
Longer term: We're seeing a number of AD assassins, Kha'zix and Zed especially, struggle after the preseason changes. We believe that's due to the removal of Brutalizer and changes to Last Whisper. We'll be looking to add a new item to help them out as a result in one of the first patches next year.
As far as evolutionary choice goes that's an issue we haven't found a good solution to yet. I don't personally feel Kha'zix has ever had great evolutionary choice, instead mainly having periods there was a clearly better choice but not everyone had figured out which one it was.
Cloud2732 votesShort term: A base armor increase and a reduction to Q's mana cost
Longer term: We're seeing a number of AD assassins, Kha'zix and Zed especially, struggle after the preseason changes. We believe that's due to the removal of Brutalizer and changes to Last Whisper. We'll be looking to add a new item to help them out as a result in one of the first patches next year.
As far as evolutionary choice goes that's an issue we haven't found a good solution to yet. I don't personally feel Kha'zix has ever had great evolutionary choice, instead mainly having periods there was a clearly better choice but not everyone had figured out which one it was.
Why is this a bad thing? Like Kha'zix always says "change is good". Anyways, Kha'zix still has insane scaling on his 'q' and 'w'. He is by no means a weak champion.
EcchiOtakuTM2 votesAnd it is a bad thing, assassins are suppose to be allowed to go in and get unaware squishies but since the lw nerf not only do assassins/ad snowballers/varus+jayce have a bad time harming squishies, they also have a bad itemization pathing due to not rushing lw 2nd/3rd/4th anymore
Asayake 5150glow2 votesAnd it is a bad thing, assassins are suppose to be allowed to go in and get unaware squishies but since the lw nerf not only do assassins/ad snowballers/varus+jayce have a bad time harming squishies, they also have a bad itemization pathing due to not rushing lw 2nd/3rd/4th anymore
So get flat armor pen, lol (Youmma's, BC, etc)
EcchiOtakuTM2 votesOnly talon can stack BC up fast enough, youmuu is already built even before the change,
Assassins are far worse than previously even their win rate reflects it
And as stated the core problem is LW's nerf which again I do like but they need to be compensated for it. Oh and also jayce can't stack black cleaver up in the first place.
Quadradactyl2 votesAll three of Khazix's abilities deal physical damage. He can stack BC pretty quick honestly. Pluss the cunning tree has flat armpen and Thunderlords which are good for him.
KONO RUBICK DA1 votesAll three of Khazix's abilities deal physical damage. He can stack BC pretty quick honestly. Pluss the cunning tree has flat armpen and Thunderlords which are good for him.
quickly means that you have the 6 stacks in 1 sec, or your spell won't benefit from the armor pene
EcchiOtakuTM1 votesAs said stacking BC means you can do it to benifit your skills which only talon can since his q applies max stacks.
And the thunderlord is suppose to be an assassin keystone I always agreed with that from the first time seeing it since it can be powerful for early game, however the CD on it needs to be reduced to 10 seconds 20/30 is too long
Cloud2734 votesAnd it is a bad thing, assassins are suppose to be allowed to go in and get unaware squishies but since the lw nerf not only do assassins/ad snowballers/varus+jayce have a bad time harming squishies, they also have a bad itemization pathing due to not rushing lw 2nd/3rd/4th anymore
I support anything that makes it harder for assassins to do their job. Making armor pen more expensive is doing just that. We've got a good thing going here. Let's not ruin it.
EcchiOtakuTM1 votesI don't want assassins to have Lw all throughout if they make a mistake but they need something to help reward when they do go in. that's all the items I suggest at 19 and 20 are.
And supporting anything that makes it harder to play assassins isnt dumb since my item idea only works during the first few moments of an assassin engaging/poke then goes useless for some time however I didn't want ad assassins/snowballers/jayce to just become worthless at what they usually do.
Partholonian2 votesIf your job is to murder squishies then you shouldn't be building LW. That's exactly what was wrong with the old LW, it was too good against everyone, not just people stacking armor (which it is intended to counter).
If the problem is that you have nothing to build instead after new Ghostblade, then Riot should do something about that, but LW is not a good item for assassins anymore and it should stay that way.
all seem like they should be good though. Maybe 
or 
for mana users like Kha'zix and Talon.
EcchiOtakuTM1 votesI already said I love the new lw I suggested a new item that's only useful for first moments of an engage but useless the longer it goes on. (Like a real assassination)
19+20
EcchiOtakuTM1 votes19 and 20 would really help kha and other assassins/ad snowballers/poke champs who've fallen out of grace since the lw nerf (I love the lw nerf however just want some compensation for those champs)
Zair Umbras3 votesI've never actually seen a Zed struggle this patch. Zix is more-so just the fact he's got so much of his power put into his isolation and the last nerfs he got was an increase in the isolation range while also making turrets count against isolation. He lost his snowbally turret diving, which was fine, but he also lost his ability to gank many lanes unless they were pushed really, really far.
Overall, Zix's early damage is pretty sub-par, but his late game burst on a squishy can near one-shot them. His ratios are off the charts on isolated targets with his Q doing nearly as much damage as Morde's 3rd Q, but instead of being a quick ramp up, it's just an instant burst -if- they're isolated. It just feels weird to have a champ scale so well, but ONLY if they're isolated...
Considering Zix has no real damage on his ult, it could be possible to turn his passive into physical damage and have his Q be able to apply it at the cost of his Q being nerfed slightly. Possibly, change the Q increase from huge damage when isolated to slightly elevated damage on isolated while applying his passive. His passive would not only need to be changed to physical, but it would need an AD ratio on it. The only issue with this idea is that his Q would lose power against monsters, though that could be fixed by increasing the damage against monsters like what his W was given. This would allow him to jungle well, his R evolution would be worth picking up since you'd choose between more slow on your W plus more AoE OR you'd get more damage. As is, his passive is nothing more than the slow it provides. With this, he could still scare people out of his jungle with the isolation, clear his jungle well, be able to gank, and he wouldn't have to suffer nearly as much if two people stand 400 units from each other or one person standing the same distance from a minion or turret.
So, his evolved Q and R would go well together, E is always going to be picked up. Possible his W could proc his passive when evolved, though at half the power. That would make each of his evolutions be worth picking up, though each of them would be for specific things. More Q damage for Q, more poke for W, E is a guaranteed, and R would be if you wanted to give your evolved Q or W more damage. You'd have poke-Zix and you'd have Assassin Zix.
kasfas1 votesDespite not playing assassins much myself,( they align very poorly with my 'brute force it' playstyle ) this seems great. Giving assassins the power they need without overdoing it. My concerns lie with the squishes, and assassins that aren't currently too weak (knife cat). I rarely see a khazix do well in jungle, so hopefully this will be the item that pushes him just to where he needs to be.
Now what do you guys plan on doing with ap assassins and the mages that got fooked over this preseason?
Finrar1 votesYou had a choice between W and R(dmg reduction ) at one point (even e if you really wanted it.) . what i'm trying to get at is that Zed gets buffs towards his damage aswell and Kha'zix only gets 3 Armour and a -5 mana cost? i call tough love. that might of sounded rude but don't take it that way plz ;-; i just want murder bug back And about that new item, do you think it will be close to old Last Whisper?
Kuro n Shiro1 votesShort term: A base armor increase and a reduction to Q's mana cost
Longer term: We're seeing a number of AD assassins, Kha'zix and Zed especially, struggle after the preseason changes. We believe that's due to the removal of Brutalizer and changes to Last Whisper. We'll be looking to add a new item to help them out as a result in one of the first patches next year.
As far as evolutionary choice goes that's an issue we haven't found a good solution to yet. I don't personally feel Kha'zix has ever had great evolutionary choice, instead mainly having periods there was a clearly better choice but not everyone had figured out which one it was.
Are you looking into helping Riven out yet? Most of her player base has over 125 games on her and since the patch her win rate has plummeted from 53~% to about 43% which is an insane drop on a champion with such a high base game pool. IIRC there was a riot post on how a champions balance should show a higher win rate if the average player has "mastered" or spent a lot of time on that champion yet Riven hasn't gotten any attention since the patch even though she is incredibly weak with the nerfs to Tiamat, Ionian Boots, Brutalizer, Masteries and CDR in general.
Vyce3 votes[deleted]
Duke of Sloths2 votesHow about looking at his jump which at the moment just gains some range and a CD reset on kill from evolution. Not very impressive, though useful. Instead though how about removing the reset function and allowing a recast that will send him back to his original location with the nearest enemy from his initial landing in tow (assuming he lands close enough to drag an enemy). This removes some of his safety (inevitably you'll grab an enemy Amumu, though I'm sure the hug will bring him to tears...) but gives him a way to force isolation (and it'd make for some nice plays seeing him jump out of the jungle before carrying his prey off).
Just a thought since I like the murder bug, but don't really like that he can't force isolation unlike Yasuo for example, who can knock-up enemies by himself to trigger his ult.
Yeah I agree. He should have a way to pull off isolating a target by himself, it still has counterplay because someone could intercept the pull and simply positioning well would make this not powerful. Great idea +1.
ExecutorDill1 votes[{quoted}](name=Duke of Sloths,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iygfWEQv,comment-id=000000070000,timestamp=2015-11-21T04:57:52.758+0000)
Yeah I agree. He should have a way to pull off isolating a target by himself, it still has counterplay because someone could intercept the pull and simply positioning well would make this not powerful. Great idea +1.
Im not a fan of heavy CC on assasin champs... It gives me the flu im not sure I even like slows on them if it goes over 45%. As for Kha'zix he has flippin' stealth on his ult.. Sure he's no rengar but I can still carry a game with kha'zix. He just need good jungle survivability which he does not have (unlike rengar and lee sin) what your asking is for him to be a better teamfighter in a way (hence the pull) which is stupid because assasins are meant to pick ppl off before the teamfight begins they don't crowds which is why theu shouldn't have crowd control in their kit.
F0310 votesHow about looking at his jump which at the moment just gains some range and a CD reset on kill from evolution. Not very impressive, though useful. Instead though how about removing the reset function and allowing a recast that will send him back to his original location with the nearest enemy from his initial landing in tow (assuming he lands close enough to drag an enemy). This removes some of his safety (inevitably you'll grab an enemy Amumu, though I'm sure the hug will bring him to tears...) but gives him a way to force isolation (and it'd make for some nice plays seeing him jump out of the jungle before carrying his prey off).
Just a thought since I like the murder bug, but don't really like that he can't force isolation unlike Yasuo for example, who can knock-up enemies by himself to trigger his ult.
Never post about ga me balance again
IRL Catgirl1 voteshow about removing the reset function
How about not removing what people like about Kha'Zix. It's legit his most iconic feature.
Diabols2 votesI'd think evolving his abilities and taking advantage of isolation would be his most iconic features, particularly considering Tristana also has a jump that resets, now even more so than Kha'Zix.
PrinceOfStorms1 votesThe double jump that Kha'zix has is the most iconic ability that he has outside of the isolation mechanic, which is either oppressive (unless you stack you are isolated) or useless (you're never isolated unless you're in Africa)
FluxBound1 votesTristana also has a jump reset, but Kha Zix's is different because he's an assassin. Tristana's jump is mainly for moving teamfights because she can't 1shot people. Khazix's iconic playstyle is jumping in, out and around the fight.
Vincent Lucius1 votesThat might be a bit overbearing. Like a Skarner ult without the benefit of being able to effectively run away or kite.
ModThe Djinn6 votes{quoted}As far as evolutionary choice goes that's an issue we haven't found a good solution to yet. I don't personally feel Kha'zix has ever had great evolutionary choice, instead mainly having periods there was a clearly better choice but not everyone had figured out which one it was.
While I'm not a Kha'Zix player, I'd be curious to see your thoughts on these rough suggestions -- I think a lot of Kha'Zix's evolution issues stem from the obvious utility / power that some of his abilities grant him in pretty much every situation: he always wants more damage, and always wants more mobility, so Q and E must be taken.
Here's some thoughts on tweaks off the top of my head -- power might need to be cut elsewhere on his kit to accommodate these sort of additions, but I do think it leads to a healthier evolution choice.
Taste Their Fear New Passive: Increases damage to isolated targets as X amount as Kha'Zix gains levels (this makes his damage spike less at 6, but also reduces the need to level this ability to maximize your assassination ability). New Evolution: Increases the range of Kha'Zix's basic attacks and Taste Their Fear by 50. The radius for calculating an Isolated target decreases, and decreases further the more Kha'Zix attacks the target.
--These changes make this the "hunter" selection, allowing you to isolate an enemy and then keep chasing them down even as they run towards their friends. A persistent Kha'Zix can deal tremendous damage to a target even close to their team if he catches them out of position with enough time to get a few hits in.--
Void Spikes Altered Active: Now always fires 3 spikes in a cone. Healing is increased against monsters (this helps his jungle clear a little bit, while making the ability just feel more impactful early on, even if the damage doesn't increase at all). New Evolution: Targets struck are slowed by 30% for 2 seconds, increasing by 25% and .5 seconds for each additional spike to strike them, to a maximum of 80% slow for 3 seconds.
--This gives Kha'Zix a powerful tool for holding a single enemy down once he's near them, making Void Spikes more than a long-range poke tool.--
Leap No change. Leap's evolution is great for Kha'Zix's who want very high mobility and greater safety. Maybe consider resetting it on Large Monster kills as well, to make it a more interesting choice for jungle invading and counter-jungling / hunting.
Void Assault New Evolution: Void Assault can be cast a total of 3 times, and the movement speed bonus is increased to 60%. Scoring a Takedown grants Kha'Zix a single free use of Void Assault, usable within 15 seconds even if the ability is on cooldown. Using a free Void Assault in this fashion does not active the normal ultimate.
*--This gives Kha'Zix a less reliable escape than a Leap evolution, but can still make him slippery or allow him to chain together a series of dives into teams.
This gives us a couple of really flexible final evolutions paths.
Q/E/R is about being slippery in fights, getting to targets, and hunting them down even in teamfights, albeit over an extended kill time to shrink the attack radius.
Q/W/E is about hunting targets down using your high mobility and ability to prevent their escape.
W/E/R is for getting picks with your team by closing to priority targets and holding them in place, although your own damage may drop a bit.
Q/W/R is the all-in combat strategy, maximizing your damage and lock-down at the expense of an easy escape.
Q is probably the worst early choice -- R gives you stronger ganking power and some escaping, E gives you very high mobility, W gives you powerful CC on your ganks.
Thoughts? The Q might need adjustment, but I think the other three are all highly appealing in their own rights. I had debated putting an AoE fear effect on nearby allies if Taste Their Fear hits a target enough, but that felt like it might be too powerful.
Aceatbl4ze1 votesI think you are a genius , i hope someone out there can hear you
Divewing3 votesI reckon considering he has his leap, the free-ult-charge shouldnt get MS buff, otherwise, omega good job
ømg1 votesShort term: A base armor increase and a reduction to Q's mana cost
Longer term: We're seeing a number of AD assassins, Kha'zix and Zed especially, struggle after the preseason changes. We believe that's due to the removal of Brutalizer and changes to Last Whisper. We'll be looking to add a new item to help them out as a result in one of the first patches next year.
As far as evolutionary choice goes that's an issue we haven't found a good solution to yet. I don't personally feel Kha'zix has ever had great evolutionary choice, instead mainly having periods there was a clearly better choice but not everyone had figured out which one it was.
What about Riven and Jayce? While Khazix was already in a bad spot (not terribad, but definitely below average) to begin with before the patch, he's now even worse. Khazix went down 9 places in terms of jungler win rate. Jayce went down 11 places in top, and 15 in mid. Zed went down 20 places in mid. But Riven took the hardest hit and went from being a very strong champion to being one of the worst, going down 39 places. In terms of how much the patch impacted champions negatively, Riven probably took the hardest hit. This is not surprising, because in almost every game in solo queue and competitive play, Riven would purchase brutalizer. That in combination with the buffs to tanks overall due to the new masteries (hp back keystone in particular), and the buff to adcs due to the new items, has left Riven in a pretty crap state.
eingebung1 votesriven is still 100 times stronger than kha..... she can be played at any possition while kha is so terribly weak that he can only be played against the jungle and that not even easily.... ever tryed lane kha? like super super super useless that thing is supposed to be an assasin like zed or talon and he needs like 4-5 cooldownsets (qwe) to kill anything even if the target isn't super healthy while having less chances to escape than zed or talon (with ult)
and that stupid isolation as if any opponent with brain would take isolation dmg multible times and even with isolation his dmg is not near zeds or talons or rivens/fioras/shacos......
Yuumis Magicbook1 votesYou guys always forget about talon :( he can't even use his combo efficiently because his autoreset on q is so clunky
ExecutorDill1 votesShort term: A base armor increase and a reduction to Q's mana cost
Longer term: We're seeing a number of AD assassins, Kha'zix and Zed especially, struggle after the preseason changes. We believe that's due to the removal of Brutalizer and changes to Last Whisper. We'll be looking to add a new item to help them out as a result in one of the first patches next year.
As far as evolutionary choice goes that's an issue we haven't found a good solution to yet. I don't personally feel Kha'zix has ever had great evolutionary choice, instead mainly having periods there was a clearly better choice but not everyone had figured out which one it was.
Zed is strungling? Naw.. He OP as hell LoL.
To be honest I do think zed can use a bit of love, but after the S6 itemization I believe he is in a great spot (he is stil the long range poke assassin with best resource sustain, and lane safety due to his W and R making flash an emergeny only spell. Yea the ULT change on PBE will change will help him out a lot (especially woth this top and mid meta) but I still find him extremely oppressive against alot mid laners for this fact i'd rather a smaller buff or none at all.
As for Kha I don't play him so I can't say much. I did heard that the absence of Ranger's Trailblazer hit him pretty hard, (tbh I never liked that item, all it gave was an early game farm spike and then completely useless later on) but from what meddler said^ he should be good again after the short term changes a litte armor and reduced mana costs can go a long way in the jungle.
CrazedPorcupine1 votesHas it been considered to do a moderate rework in the same vein as Viktor?
Perhaps make it so that he has more ways to unlock evolutions, Perhaps through killing units/champions, and adding more evolutionary steps into abilities?
Stacona1 votesThen revert Zed buffs - Zed is already not a fun champion to play against
Aceatbl4ze2 votesOh pls never post again
RoakOriginal1 votesHe was garbage even before item reworks. Exactly from a moment you gutted his unevovled Q dmg and gave him worthless vision and bigger slow on W. If you have no idea what to do yourself, maybe would be good to make topic for rework proposals, as cassiopeia had (didnt help much, mostly bcs she was left cold again after a while, but people at least felt there is sth goin on, and that she aint left to rot like khazix). I saw several times on forums, idea about reverting all changes that were done to him (since usualy they created more problems than they solved) and see if he wont be healthier in current game enviroment (since so many changes happened in years after his release). Or you can then continue to work from there again, and not from this bad joke he is now.
EDIT: http://champion.gg/statistics/#?sortBy=general.winPercent&order=descend&roleSort=Jungle CG! Kha is now oficialny the biggest garbage out of all champs, since he is unable to be useful at only role he can be picked on. GJ with the reworks, to the balance team. And 3 more armor wont change bad kit.
ThePurpleKnight1 votesShort term: A base armor increase and a reduction to Q's mana cost
Longer term: We're seeing a number of AD assassins, Kha'zix and Zed especially, struggle after the preseason changes. We believe that's due to the removal of Brutalizer and changes to Last Whisper. We'll be looking to add a new item to help them out as a result in one of the first patches next year.
As far as evolutionary choice goes that's an issue we haven't found a good solution to yet. I don't personally feel Kha'zix has ever had great evolutionary choice, instead mainly having periods there was a clearly better choice but not everyone had figured out which one it was.
Kha'Zix biggest issue right now is the Tiamat change, it was a good change overall for the game, but it was bad for Kha'Zix as well as removal of trail blazer. Without these two items, Kha'Zix has no good source of AoE, leveling W isn't very good because the E level up is so essential due to the fact it's so short range without evolution and W evolved doesn't even completely solve the problem. So with that it makes it difficult to play him in the jungle, his clear is bad, his ganks are easy to play around for winning lanes and he's easy to invade.
My suggestion would be to either massively increase W damage to minions, or add an item Kha'Zix can rush to AoE clear camps. Or you could change it so jungle monsters are always isolated even when nearby small monsters.
TBH Kha'Zix was affected by a lot more than just the decreased clear this patch though, since you guys reduced jungle income by 22-24 gold per camp (by removing the gold off jungle items but not adding it back onto the camp, I feel like you forgot about that) Sure you gave 6-8 gold to all the camps but with the massive increase in item prices, and the fact that everyone else gets more gold except junglers and AP supports, you've not only completely ruined farm junglers but you have hurt certain carry junglers such as Kha'Zix who already struggled by being lower level and now struggle further by having massively less gold than the rest of the game. As a jungle main I am currently avoiding jungle and playing anything even top over jungle, top may have to deal with all the most stupidly powerful champions but at least they can get items. Please add that gold back to the camps.
laststanding61 voteswell ideally they should all bring something good to the table but honestly the only decent one he has is e right now. Maybe make it so his evolved w heals off of missing hp as well? And possibly move the slow from w to a mini slow on his q so it acts like like talon's e in that's it could be considered a very minor snare but place it on a longer cd as a trade off?? then maybe make his taste of fear bonus damage based on target hp or something. Ult could maybe give you a small shield like eve when you exit but you only get 2 charges instead of 3?
Steel Inquisitor1 votesShort term: A base armor increase and a reduction to Q's mana cost
Longer term: We're seeing a number of AD assassins, Kha'zix and Zed especially, struggle after the preseason changes. We believe that's due to the removal of Brutalizer and changes to Last Whisper. We'll be looking to add a new item to help them out as a result in one of the first patches next year.
As far as evolutionary choice goes that's an issue we haven't found a good solution to yet. I don't personally feel Kha'zix has ever had great evolutionary choice, instead mainly having periods there was a clearly better choice but not everyone had figured out which one it was.
Zed is struggling because of the W change. Source: Zed main of 2 years. That change feels absolutely TERRIBLE to play with.
HFsheBosZp1 votesHi I'm EUW CHallenger Kha'Zix Main I'm just gonna ask you this:
Apart from the 40% movement speed for one second every ult phase (assuming you consume the whole duration), do you think there is any true benefit in evolving R? (I'm pointing at the +1 recast time after you removed the release Kha's damage reduction too)
Tortferngatr1 votesI'm kind of wondering if the AD assassins need an overall rework to differentiate them better--Kha'Zix in particular feels like he could use more "consume other enemies and gain their strengths" gameplay than his design currently suggests.
blfUvZ8Ybu2 votesRip Azir,Viktor,Orianna,Cass.
Poop Jelly2 votesI have to agree on this. I dont even play Khazis, but I literally stood my ground and won a 1v1 fight with Khazis as MF. He did everything he could and so did I, I missed about 1 sec when he went to invis and started firing ult in the wrong direction, still I came out on top and killed him to walk away with a little amount of HP. My point is, if Khazis can't even 1v1 a relatively weak 1v1 ADC like MF, he's not on a very good spot.
KNÍGHT1 votesRENGAR ?!?!? =C
KNÍGHT1 votesYou could make some item if REngar or any assasin is behind to push him a little bit ahead
Bladerunner77771 votesHoly crap I'm glad the people replying aren't in charge of balancing Kha'Zix
Armor is the thing I want most on him right now so I'm not forced to get scuttle in my first clear.
Kha'Zix is an opportunistic assassin, his niche is being able to pick off isolated targets and getting out OR cleaning up a fight with resets on isolated targets. Why would they change that?
Cubíx1 votesIts probably a little late to comment on this but, as a big fan of kha'zix I can say a few things about that could make him a little more viable. All he needs is a little push. First off for his W, i believe a heal scale ap is total bs, if riven can have a 100% ad scaling shield i think kha'zix can get like 20% ad scale on his heal. Second, for the isolation, the biggest problem is minions and towers, considering 3/5 of the map is filled with minions this makes it more challenging, as well as ever since season 4 minions followed people in to the river and jungle area this doesn't help kha'zix hunt in his own domain. Third, just thought of this, maybe make the unseen threat bonus apply to his q as well. Also since slows don't stack anymore, his passive and w don't need them both. Maybe make a short(.5sec or lower, don't want him too op) snare on w? or maybe some sort of other cc.