Revert IE change. if too strong too early (it wont since a 2 items ADC still explodes if any other champ look at him) increase the cost by 200g or whatever it needs to delay the 2 items powerspike timimng. delete stormrazor since it makes me rage every time i see it in the shop. done Cordially, ex. ADC main now fiora otp
by the way, there is another thread here that ill quote, where a rioter explained very well the issue with adc and game agency
I'm going to heavily caveat this with "this is just my opinion".
Marksmen are systemically overpowered. That's gonna be true of a role that is functionally mandatory to the game. Yes there are some counters - but they are seen as cheese. If they were actual accepted counters to them, we would see pros adapt rather then literally bench themselves and wait out until we make their role OP again (looking at you Rekkles). And there are also really good reasons that we keep them >overpowered. They create a very understandable game-flow for all players with inevitability (they will win the game if not dealt with).
That said, Marksmen have low agency. Agency is a measure of how impactful their own actions are at determining their success - and I strongly suspect this is what marksmen actually complain about. They got this weird conception that they are supposed to be carries (adc lul) - but that's literally the opposite of what they are. The more reliable your output is (repeatable ranged unmissable dps), the less agency you can have. Really you can view every ability as a way to buy agency - and the more unreliable (missable/dodgeable/high cost/difficult to position/long CD) your ability is the more agency it can buy. And since Marksmen put the majority of their power budget in a very reliable ability (AAs), they can buy the least agency.
Imagine how miserable a fight would be if Marksmen had the most agency. You can't outplay an AA, you can't wait for it to be on CD or dodge it, and therefore the Autoattacker also can't outplay with that AA. Anything you tried to do to stop this, the marksmen would negate because they have higher agency. Every other role MUST have agency over them - or they reliably lose because marksmen are reliable. So as long as their AAs consume the majority of their power budget, they are functionally very powerful cannon minions, not carries. Carries are the players who do something proactive that wins the game - definitionally something that requires high agency (ie: Malphite Ulted 5 ppl).
This is made worse by how well marksmen scale with gold, which just means they need to be weak early game. Since games snowball and players tilt and get mad at teammates, mistakes can easily compound to functional defeat before they get enough gold. This effect is generally sharper the further away from coordinated professional play you get (especially with flaming teammates in game - something I assume basically never happens in actual profession matches). I would go as far as to say that a significant amount of our players should probably not even be playing marksmen at their MMR since they and their teammates simply can't play around them well enough.
season 7 during the ardent meta when crit itemization was cheap and "good", it was exactly the situation that lead to marksmen having too much game agency.
that being said, i dont deny that stormrazor didnt cause issues and some marksmen have very skewed power curves at the moment, while others adopted stormrazor just fine. thats why they intend to work on the item.
but the overpowered early game and midgame that marskmen enjoyed for 2 years is done. from the sound of it, youre not going to get it back.
theyre thinking of making marksmen a bit more defensive and tune down their overall damage scaling in return, and work on stormrazor to smoothen out some of their power curves. but you can never expect a lategame build to kick in with 2 cheap items. the fact that this ever happened was disgusting when it did.
That hurts to watch... And Jhin is considered one of the "okay" marksmen.
but you didnt even have a fucking i.e.
this would have been exactly the same situation before and after the crit item changes.
not to mention jhin is one of the largest benefactors of these changes, since stormrazor is broken on him. he had been one of the strongest bot lane picks practically ever since 8.11 came around.
And the boards circlejerk says ADC's are in a good spot....
Jhin is considered one of the ADC's that are in an "appropriate spot" according to Riot.
Please stop showing that misleading clip, Alistar went through his rotation twice + an ignite and Jhin only used 3 autos and still almost killed him.
So what was the Ali building?
And how fed is said alistar?
Also Ignite OP.
A serious health and movement speed buff overall would be a fantastic fucking start.
Jhin vs tank(s), he must have watched the finals to much.
you dieing is not an excuse to have more damage otherwise fighters would have infinite damage by now.
