Fiddlesticks' kit contradicts itself

NotSid·Aug 29, 2015·15 votes·965 views

Main culprit being his fear, ever since fear itself was reworked. Targets now run away from him instead of staying in place, which is directly counterproductive to the nature of his drain ability, which requires him to stay put and channel.

Nevermind getting a full channel off, you're lucky if you can even get half a channel off anymore. And I didn't even talk about the fear duration Nerf yet.

Fiddle jungle brought something to games that not a lot others could: Paranoia. He could be anywhere, waiting to pounce on you with his crow storm. You played differently with a fiddle in the game. I miss that.

19 Comments

67chromeAug 29, 20153 votes

Nevermind getting a full channel off, you're lucky if you can even get half a channel off anymore. And I didn't even talk about the fear duration Nerf yet.

It is annoying his kit is set up like that considering a minor 5% difference in power in item builds will cause everyone to loose their minds due to how important optimization is in LoL.

That said - Fiddlestick's base damages can only be explained as "he's going to miss 60% of his damage". That's literally the only explanation.

Average QWER for a typical mage, assassin, or tank does right around ~1000 damage @18 through bases, and you can generally double it with ~450 AP, or a 2.22 AP ratio on the entire thing.

Drain does 900+2.25 AP over it's full 5 second duration.

Full QWER on Fiddle, assuming 5 second drain and crowstorm damage, along with max-bounces on Dark Wind, does 2960+5.85 AP Which is enough to OHKO any level 18 squishy while building 0 AP.

So - yes it's annoying to get a max-damage combo off with Fiddle. No - it's not required to do so for optimal play. You're heavily rewarded for doing so.

KougaAug 29, 20151 votes

{quoted} So - yes it's annoying to get a max-damage combo off with Fiddle. No - it's not required to do so for optimal play. You're heavily rewarded for doing so.

True - several Champions are reliant on channels or long durations/combos to get their full damage out. Its rare for them to do so, but if they do, they get massive rewards.

Malzahar

1470 + 3.7 AP + (40% + 5% per 100 AP Max HP over the 5 second duration) [With a modest 200 AP, puts it at 50% max HP with a full duration] *Not counting Voidlings contributing damage

Nunu

Ultimate alone deals over 1000 base damage if fully channeled. 1125 + 2.5 AP with one ability

7ha7guy777Aug 29, 20152 votes

Not sure where you got those numbers (looks like you added his Q base and ratio twice) for malz but his kit does 1170 (2.9 ap) + 9% (1% per 100 ap) per second (45% + 1% every 20 ap for full duration) To put this in perspective, at full build ~800 ap he'll do 3490 + 85% max hp magic damage before damage reduction, over 5 seconds 940 + 85% max hp of which is AoE

KougaAug 29, 20151 votes

Granted it has been a while since I played Malz but IIRC, his Q is technically two missiles that fire towards each other. Ergo, there should be a sort of 'sweet spot' where they get hit twice. I do know that you can hit someone through a Banshee's Veil with his Q because it hits twice - but now that I think about it I don't know if that doubles the damage if you get both.

And the Wiki's stats are wonky, for some reason it isn't showing me total, only the per second damage, so I had to multiply it by the number of ticks. So I might have messed up my math in there somewhere.

Point is... its a lot... if he can get all of it out.

DorkunedAurasAug 29, 20151 votes

Malz's Q is not a double hit ability, you cannot be hit twice by it.

KougaAug 30, 20151 votes

Call of the Void Active: Malzahar summons two orbs at the target location >perpendicular to which way he is facing after a 0.5-second delay

Malz can hit and silence someone through Banshee's Veil because of the two projectiles. Or at least he used to, I've done it - but I haven't played him in probably a year or so.

DurzakaAug 30, 20151 votes

He CANT hit someone through Banshee's Veil, because it is two projectiles, and Bashee's only hits once.

Same with Braum and Yasuo, they can only block one of the projectiles.

But when the skill hits, it only deals damage once.

CatastropAug 30, 20151 votes

Hover over it and click, this shows full values instead of per second values.

KougaAug 30, 20151 votes

WHAT

(」゜ロ゜)」

WHEN DID THEY CHANGE THAT

That's actually really useful..

BUT I WOULDN'T BE MAKING MYSELF LOOK LIKE AN IDIOT IF I HAD KNOWN

щ(゜ロ゜щ)

CatastropAug 30, 20151 votes

UltraSceptileAug 29, 20153 votes

Yes by playing differently you mean stacking magic resist on literally every champ so you didn't get killed by two ticks of his ult which was impossible to run from with rylais and that fear and silence.

I had to buy banshees and Mercurial every game against fiddle as adc just to not fucking die. Maybe even a GA on top of that. Not to mention constant wards around the map because he could literally be anywhere read to two hit people with that ult.

LaceUp23Aug 30, 20151 votes

Or ya could, you know...ward and not sit by an unwarded wall?

Sniper 0Aug 29, 20152 votes

Fiddle retains his drain for a little while outside of the actual range. The individual who is feared is also slowed. So if it's not a yi who just ulted, they're not getting out of the drain.

NekusenAug 29, 20151 votes

i don't see a point on the channel time on his ult. i wouldn't mind his fear and silence to be nerfed in order for him to get better base/scaling armor/mr, and his ult to have no channeling time

i can see the fear being annoying to opponents, but if you must tone it down, please compensate in other aspects.

NotSidAug 29, 20151 votes

{quoted}

i don't see a point on the channel time on his ult. i wouldn't mind his fear and silence to be nerfed in order for him to get better base/scaling armor/mr, and his ult to have no channeling time

i can see the fear being annoying to opponents, but if you must tone it down, please compensate in other aspects.

I feel like if it were just a straight up blink, it'd be going overboard. Unless it had a condition like for instance..

Fiddlesticks can cast this ability on an ally to instantly blink to them. Otherwise, it's the full channel time.

I wouldn't want to remove counterplay from fiddle to buff him.

BluePolarizerAug 29, 20151 votes

Riot doesn't like champions or items that force you to play different though.

Zzrot portal was nerfed even further because it forces ppl to play different with a portal using team.

WhiskerWowAug 29, 20151 votes

You're not supposed to get the full drain unless you're draining monsters. That's more than 900 damage at rank 5.

Fiddlesticks does need some work though. He's too binary in combat. A lot of point and clicking. His tankiness is tied to his offense. He falls behind too easily. He wrecks too hard when he gets ahead. He's really reliant on his ult.

BremerdanGorstAug 29, 20151 votes

IDK, most Fiddlesticks I've ever seen do fine just walking a little closer after fear and then starting drain.

DurzakaAug 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Main culprit being his fear, ever since fear itself was reworked. Targets now run away from him instead of staying in place, which is directly counterproductive to the nature of his drain ability, which requires him to stay put and channel.

Nevermind getting a full channel off, you're lucky if you can even get half a channel off anymore. And I didn't even talk about the fear duration Nerf yet.

Fiddle jungle brought something to games that not a lot others could: Paranoia. He could be anywhere, waiting to pounce on you with his crow storm. You played differently with a fiddle in the game. I miss that.

Do you realize how much damage both Fiddlestick's Ult and Drain can do to a target if they hit the full duration?

His ult and drain have some of the highest base and total damage in the entire game. The point of the kit is to actually give you a chance to get away.

When his fear kept you in place, you were guaranteed to either get hit a full drain, or a full channel of his ult. Which is insane.