Does anyone else think Shaco could use a buff/rework?

Blood Flowers··1 votes·756 views

Shaco has a pretty unique identity as that annoying champion that pops out of nowhere while you're laning to chuck a shiv at you. His role in a game is pretty weird - you can build him to be an off-tank, an assassin, a bruiser, an on-hit dps champion, an ap mage, a splitpusher, or whatever really. The one thing that can be said for certain though, is that Shaco offers little to the classic "drop all your AoE spells on them" team fight. On paper, Shaco appears to have some potential in a team fight - he can assassinate squishies, his boxes are AoE fears for 1.5 seconds, and he even gets a clone to help confuse the enemy. But in actuality, as many Shaco players have experienced, organized team fights are not exactly his cup of tea. There are three main contributors, in my opinion, to this:

-Jack in the Boxes are non-factors by mid-game: random AoE spells, a marksmen's auto attack, or a casual sneeze will kill a box before it even primes. There is the argument that boxes need to be placed beforehand - and I agree, they do. But when you consider that other similar things (traps/turrets) such as Heimerdinger turrets (scaling health), Zyra plants/Teemo shrooms/Jhin lotuses/Caitlyn traps/other traps (required number of hits/invulnerability), Jack in the Boxes are significantly easier to destroy.

-Shaco not having a method of escaping a fight after committing: if you choose to deceive into a fight, the odds of you surviving the ~7 seconds after stealth as worn off (and this is with ~40% CDR that most Shaco builds never attain) are about nil unless your team wins that fight. As one of the few champions that does not take flash (because you need the ignite to be relevant early game), you literally have no escapes.

-True Vision: it goes without saying, that Shaco's hardest counter is being spotted within stealth mid-assassination. This is a fair amount of counter play, that I do believe is necessary. Being spotted by a pink ward (don't forget the fact that they are cheaper now... and are EVERYWHERE) or a champion ability (like Thrill of the Hunt) should definitely be fair game. Being hit by a snowball in ARAM, oracle's elixir (5 minutes of Shaco being utterly useless...), or the bug where if you start an auto attack while in stealth but it never lands/you cancel the auto and you get revealed, is a bit excessive though.

Some small buffs to consider: -Make JitBs like other traps and require 3 autos to kill. -Have the deceive cooldown start upon activation (kind of like Varus Q). Surviving for 8 seconds instead of 11, or even 4 seconds instead of 7 as a squishy assassin that has no real escapes is at least feasible. It would at least make having cooldown reduction remotely valuable.

As he is now, I believe Shaco to be in a pretty poor spot (kind of like where he's always been post-nerf). Other champions do what he does (with differences in the kit of course) but better and with less difficulty. Rengar or Talon do the whole "delete from stealth" business significantly easier. Elise has a more potent early game presence with a better transition into mid/late game... and she can team fight or assassinate as she pleases. For the effort required to play Shaco, there is not a matching reward. He sports a fairly decent win rate, usually slightly above the 50% mark, but is used very infrequently at higher levels of play, mainly due to the high risk to low reward of the champion. The win rate can also be partially attributed to the very low pick rate (indicative of mostly Shaco enthusiasts playing the champion and doing well, instead of a large pool of players) - if one were to take the win rates of only, for instance, Graves mains on Graves, it would probably be quite a ways above where the average is.

Anyways, please offer some opinions on the matter. Thanks.

11 Comments

Grashnim1 votes

Shitaco, no.

Blood Flowers1 votes

I get that you obviously dislike the champion, but could you put aside the bias and make a new opinion from a balance standpoint? Thanks.

Grashnim1 votes

[{quoted}](name=SoEx Blood,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=heqcJyIu,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-03-07T03:18:37.826+0000)

I get that you obviously dislike the champion, but could you put aside the bias and make a new opinion from a balance standpoint? Thanks.

I only dislike him on my team, hence the name shitaco. The issue is the other junglers are pretty broken. Sated + Guinsoo = ggwp, freelo cancer. Until they do something about those items, there's no point in trying to just break all the other junglers.

Blood Flowers1 votes

While I agree that Sated Devourer and Guinsoo's Rageblade are very strong on certain junglers, that does not mean that Shaco doesn't need a buff. Also, many people dislike having Shaco on their team, simply because he usually either does extremely well or horrendously bad. Part of the reason why he might end up doing horrendously bad, is because he needs a buff!

Zarkkast1 votes

I am a Shaco main and I can guarantee you he DOES NOT need a buff.

Blood Flowers1 votes

I am as well, but he feels very underwhelming compared to other "meta" junglers. I mean, I've lost games where I'd have scorelines like 32/8/28 (I'm high gold/low plat, so it's not a matter of not pushing objectives after a fight) whereas someone playing Master Yi or Xin Zhao would likely have been able to hard carry.

DrCyanide1 votes

A buff to the durability of the JitB, maybe, using the same system as Teemo's mushrooms. The rest, no. Assassins should have to pick their target wisely and actually out play them to get out safely, not have a fallback mechanic. Shaco's play pattern with his Q is what more Assassins should be like.

Blood Flowers1 votes

I see your point about having to pick the target wisely. My issue is more that in any given late-game teamfight, I will go in, assassinate the ADC, and then die. Is the trade worth it? Yes. Would I like to not die? Definitely. The sad part is, I'm not even dying to focus-fire, it's usually just random AoE and the support being mad at me for having killed their ADC.

Lycra1 votes

I think he should be reworked since his kit has no counterplay 1v1 and he is extremely useless in late game team fights. He's also imo the ugliest champion in the game.

Blood Flowers1 votes

Armor and thornmail are the best methods of dealing with Shaco. There's also the option of kiting him, like say with Ezreal. Or, for high damage bruisers like Riven, you can just delete the Shaco after taking the initial burst. He is high-risk in late game teamfights, but you have fairly good assassination potential. As to him being ugly... I kind of actually like how Shaco looks.

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