Some buffs to make Ivern's kit at least functional

Colyeses··2 votes·1,198 views

1: Daisy should not die when Ivern does. Tibbers doesn't die when Annie does, so Daisy shouldn't die when Ivern does. It feel very arbitrary that she is immediately dispelled, when, as far as I know, no other fire and forget/deployable ultimate does the same.

2: Enemies should not be able to see through Brushmaker. They cannot see through normal brush, but are apparently able to see through Brushmaker's. This reduces the ability's potential, as it takes away a core aspect of what makes brush useful in a fight.

3: Ivern and his allies should have vision inside his brush at all times. It makes absolutely no sense that enemies can benefit from his abilities like this.

Those are the most basic ones, but there's one more that's bigger and more complicated.

4: His attack range. Ivern seems built from the ground up to be ranged, but his range was shifted entirely onto a passive benefit on his W. This makes him quite unwieldy, because he's not fit for close combat due to low survivability and a lack of reliable and versatile mobility, coupled with low attack damage. (It is also possible that the damage bonus from his W is pre-compensated, leading to him having sub-par DPS without Brushmaker's effect and par damage with it)

I'd suggest letting him keep his current Brushmaker range (450, still noticeably low, as ordinary ADCs tend to range upward from 500. Even Kindred has 500, and she gets bonus range from her passive) at all times, and give him a new passive where his range increases while in brush, and for 3 seconds upon exiting brush. Say, an increase of 75 would be nice.

Brushmaker can then upgrade that passive (Much like one of Ilaoi's abilities upgrades her passive) to give it an additional 25 bonus range per level. This would cap him out at 650 range, close to what Tristana can accomplish at max, and making him compete with Caitlyn. I think this would greatly help him sit better in teamfights, where his incredibly short attack range and the fact that one of his abilities only affects his basic attack damage clashes greatly with his lack of mobility, survivability, and the relatively long range on his Q and E.

I like Ivern's character, but I'm pretty sure the guy is not viable and needs help.

6 Comments

Aptest2 votes

Double edged abilities are the best designed abilities in the game because instead of restricting agency from the defending player they change the available options whilst leaving the defending player with the ability to meaningfully choose.

Therefore you win with these abilities not because your reflexes were sufficiently quick that you can "press W to dislodge the projectile" but truly outplay an opponent by out-thinking him. This is why you do not hear of anybody being angry for being outplayed by a bard, whereas fizz's version of "outplay", which is to simply wait for the appropriate ability and dodge it and if it does not come you win anyway, is infuriating to VS.

It is infuriating when an ability you are using can be used against you, and / or you can hurt your team by using it badly. but these vulnerabilities are the hallmark of the best ability design, and allows abilities to not be an "I win" buttons, while being extremely powerful.

I.E. the ability of the opponent to use your ability to their advantage, by for instance forcing the ranged ivern out of his bush and thereby removing his DPS, is what allows abilities like bushmaker to have such an absurd power in the first place.

velraptured1 votes

I hate having Bard on my team, not being against Bard.

Aptest1 votes

Well that is definitely a different discussion. What exactly do you hate about Rabid?

SSmotzer1 votes

...If you play Ivern right his attack range shouldn't be an issue at all. Ivern is still powerful, not as powerful as he was at launch, but still strong enough to carry a team, under the right circumstances.

Done251 votes

Personally I want W buff -> Bumped up to 500 range from 475. Passive - Revert the CD change. Instead, groves now auto consume upon fully charging.

ZackTheWaffleMan1 votes

There's some buffs for him on PBE. He can instantly clear camps and they cost no health or anything.

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