Has armor and MR been changed

REAPER697·Jan 18, 2015·8 votes·880 views

I came back to league recently, and it feels like armor and MR are not the do not feel nearly as effective as they did before i left. Such as having 200 armor yasuo still hits for 800 with a single ability and no pen.

14 Comments

UberAffeJan 18, 20154 votes

Resistance were weakened around the beginning of season 4 if i remember correctly.

Sneak DogJan 18, 20151 votes

Penetration got buffed at some point so first % applies, then flat. Resistances have gone unchanged. They give 1% max health in effective health per point of resistance against their damage type.

Cale017Jan 18, 20154 votes

Tanks are having a hard time keeping up with the kind of damage carries can put out, yeah. People have been complaining about it for some time, offering REALLY great ideas of mechanics that can be implemented to counter the mass of penetration/reduction effects that effectively render tanks as useless, but Riot's said nothing on any of the threads I've seen about it.

Although part of the scenario you mentioned is just to do with Yasuo in general. He can build two items and crit constantly for the 250% crit damage on Infinity Edge, so if you've got 200 armor I'm assuming you have three or four items built including boots, so he's also going to and chances are he's got a Last Whisper on there somewhere to ignore a solid chunk of your armor. So a Yasuo with ~250 or so AD between base values, runes, masteries, and items is going to be critting for 650 off of an auto attack alone. If he dealt that much damage off an ability I'm assuming it was likely his Q, which at max rank will deal his full AD plus an extra 100 damage and can crit like an auto attack while still being ranged, so yeah he'd be hitting you for roundabout 750 damage, give or take for the exact numbers.

However, that's assuming he's at level 18 when this happens and basically ONLY has AD runes and quints, no armor pen, although that would still make him hurt about the same from the extra penetration.

What's got me confused then is how he did 800 to you off of a single ability because even dealing almost 800 by the math, you would still have been reducing it by a certain amount even with your armor being shredded by a Last Whisper. If it was your ult then it makes much more sense, though. Max rank it's dealing 400 base damage plus a whopping 150% of his bonus AD. Assuming he's got the same Infinity Edge, Runes/Quints, and a Last Whisper then he's got roundabout to 150 bonus AD or so, so there'd be another 225 tacked onto that, once again give or take, bringing it to about 625... but even that's lower than the number you mentioned. If he had more items than that, an extra AD item or two, then it might make more sense.

In either case, yeah. Tanks are just generally having a hard time right now because with single item purchases, a damage dealer can render all the gold they've spent on tank items completely wasted. I'm starting to wonder if stacking Warmog's Armor is more efficient than trying to build resistances.

It'd make Zac really big at least.

Done25Jan 18, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Tanks are having a hard time keeping up with the kind of damage carries can put out, yeah...

You would be better off getting a frozen mallet or RoA for a bit of damage to fight back with.

Cale017Jan 18, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You would he better off getting a frozen mallet or RoA for a bit of damage to right back with.

Pretty much this. You're much better off building 80% tank and a damage item to try and hit a balance of living long enough to do just enough damage to win a fight. And you know what that means...

Volibear gonna be getting stacks on that Devourer enchant.

JJI744Jan 18, 20151 votes

{quoted}

What's got me confused then is how he did 800 to you off of a single ability because even dealing almost 800 by the math, you would still have been reducing it by a certain amount even with your armor being shredded by a Last Whisper. If it was your ult then it makes much more sense, though. Max rank it's dealing 400 base damage plus a whopping 150% of his bonus AD. Assuming he's got the same Infinity Edge, Runes/Quints, and a Last Whisper then he's got roundabout to 150 bonus AD or so, so there'd be another 225 tacked onto that, once again give or take, bringing it to about 625... but even that's lower than the number you mentioned. If he had more items than that, an extra AD item or two, then it might make more sense.

Yas was Zerker's+Hydra+IE+LW+Shiv+Phage. lvl 18 Darius was Randuiin's+Sunfire+Specter's Cowl+D Blade+Mercs+Brut. lvl 16

EDIT: this is end-game. It was a normal, so I can't check OPs match history including build-paths.

Despite the rather obvious (and massive) difference between Darius' armor items and Yas' damage items, the damage quoted from the OP still isn't possible unless hit by a Q crit after being hit by his ulti. (Which grants an additoinal 50% ArmPen against bonus armor.)

Tanks, building to tank, tend to do just fine against champions which are not designed to shred tanks. Bruisers, particularily if you fall behind, have trouble surviving when they rush a damage item and try to tank fed carries who are 100% devoted to dealing damage.

Cale017Jan 19, 20151 votes

Hm... not quite. A Darius with Randuin's, Sunfire, and let's say 9 armor seals from his rune page. At level 16 he 204 armor between the items, his runes, and his natural armor per level. We'll say 200 for easy numbers.

At level 18, assuming full AD for marks and quints,, you have a Yasuo with 110 base damage, 125 after runes, and after items about 330 AD, which is also ignoring 35% of Darius' armor.

So a Q from this would deal 100+330 AD so 430 damage, multiplied by the 2.5 for crit makes it 1075 damage off of the one ability. Darius' armor is reduced to 65% of it's previous value, so it's only sitting at about 130 armor. With such a large gap between his armor and the damage Yasuo's critting Q is putting out, 800 damage actually does sound about right.

The feasibility of Yasuo performing this aside, it's a great example of why tanks are having such a difficult time right now. One item on a damage dealing champion renders one, or more, of their tank items as though they aren't even there aside from the health, which doesn't help a whole lot when they're dealing several hundred damage off of auto attacks alone.

JJI744Jan 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

So a Q from this would deal 100+330 AD so 430 damage, multiplied by the 2.5 for crit makes it 1075 damage off of the one ability. Darius' armor is reduced to 65% of it's previous value, so it's only sitting at about 130 armor. With such a large gap between his armor and the damage Yasuo's critting Q is putting out, 800 damage actually does sound about right.

Not really. With LW, Darius has ~130 armor. 100/230=~44% damage done.

.44*1075=473. Over 300 short. Masteries are not going to make up for that. Like I said, either Darius was under the effects of Last Breath, or OP is counting Q+Shiv proc as one ability.

The feasibility of Yasuo performing this aside, it's a great example of why tanks are having such a difficult time right now. One item on a damage dealing champion renders one, or more, of their tank items as though they aren't even there aside from the health, which doesn't help a whole lot when they're dealing several hundred damage off of auto attacks alone.

I think tanks built as tanks work just fine(barring tank-shredding champions), LW or no. I'll edit post later when I get a chance to math it out, kinda short on time just now.

EDIT: Champions mentioned are lvl 18.

Malph with Thornmail+Ninja Tabis+Randuin's+Sunfire+W active has 3300 HP(with passive) plus 73% damage reductoin vs. a target with 40% ArmPen, ~76% damage reductoin against AAs. Has 2 open inventory slots for MR/HP/damage.

Amusingly, if an Ashe with BT+IE+PD+LW+Zerker's were to AA Malphite constantly, Ashe would die to thornmail damage before Malphite died to her AAs. Although I think it would take longer than the 6s duratoin of Malphite's W, after which the relative health trade favors Ashe. My gut says that if you had an even distribution of crits, it would actually be really close between the AAing Ashe and the Malphite standing there.

Cale017Jan 19, 20151 votes

I have to wonder if you were factoring in that she would be healing roughly 100 or so life per hit here, and if you were also factoring in the use of her Volley. If you are allowing Malphite to use his abilities, then so would Ashe in this scenario to keep it on a level playing field.

JJI744Jan 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I have to wonder if you were factoring in that she would be healing roughly 100 or so life per hit here, and if you were also factoring in the use of her Volley. If you are allowing Malphite to use his abilities, then so would Ashe in this scenario to keep it on a level playing field.

Lifesteal yes, Volley no. Volley adds ~25 DPS to Ashe, which will let her win the war of her AAing+Volley vs. Thornmail+W. On the otherhand, if you include any of the following, Malphite wins even if Ashe ults as well.

1)Sunfire 2) Malph AAs 3) Malph Q 4) Malph ult 5) Malph E

If you include all abilties, it just becomes sad how 1-sided the matchup is in favor of Malphite. Even if Ashe avoids every E besides the one after Malph ult, and never lets Malph land a single AA, his ult+Q alone just destroy Ashe's chance of winning the fight, even if she somehow landed a 3.5s stun and started AAing immediately after it lands, Malph ult+E when the stun ends more than makes up for the damage dealt while he was stunned.

Worth noting is that Ashe has a full item over Malphite, and her items costs substantially more gold.

Now, if you change from Ashe to Vayne, or Kog'Maw, things change considerably. As I said, champs designed to shred tanks can do so if given the chance, but otherwise tanks tend to be quite effective at soaking large amounts of damage.

Also, Zed with BotRK+LW+BC is bullshit and needs some serious nerfs. Why the hell is the ideal buildpath of an assassin to grab a bunch of tank-killing items?