Rengar still does 1700 damage in 0.27 seconds.

Beastwhal·Nov 16, 2016·118 votes·6,756 views

135 Comments

feryvunnyNov 16, 201656 votes

The fact that this made it through PBE should be the next world wonder. The only thing they did in "delaying" his burst window was giving him a slower Q.

-The ferocity decay is compensated by the fact that you only need 4 bars + leap gives you 1 for free.

-His Q does an absurd amount of damage.

-His passive gives an absurd amount of AD for only killing 5 targets. Yeah 5 targets. Meanwhile, Kindred.

-He now has a new W to overload his kit which makes tank Rengar viable. (You'd think they had enough of tank assassins by now right? Or at least know how to prevent them from happening again)

-The free crit which is guaranteed to land when you leap on someone is insanely strong when you have max passive stacks + IE. You can literally 1-auto-1-shot people if you are ahead enough.

-He can have 350+ AD with 2.5 items. Why is this even allowed? Why? Just why?

The fuck are you thinking, Riot? Tell your design team to get their shit together. I know pre-season is meant for imbalance, but it doesn't take 10 years of testing to see how broken new Rengar is.

ChaoticPineconeNov 16, 201623 votes

{quoted}

-His passive gives an absurd amount of AD for only killing 5 targets. Yeah 5 targets. Meanwhile, Kindred.

To be fair to Rengar, its 5 unique targets. He cant get stacks from the jungle or by camping one lane.

NightmareAmazoXNov 16, 201613 votes

And the crit only applies to the enemy who has rengar's eyes on and is revealed by the ult only.

Spaceman5pffNov 16, 201624 votes

Rengar has to kill 5 UNIQUE ENEMIES. Rengar can only crit the closest target (the marked one) with his ult, this means the enemy team can FORCE you to crit tanks / non-priority targets. Rengar becomes visible near enemies, meaning if he tries to sneak his way past the tank line, his can EASILY get picked off. He is forced to flank, which risks his team getting engaged on 5v4 when he is pathing around.

Leap only gives you a stack if you ENTER combat with it. Getting the drop on Rengar removes this possibility and makes him significantly weaker. Also, not being able to hold on to full ferocity means he has to cycle his spells to get an empowered ability, adding a delay to his burst window, so they didn't ONLY slow his Q.

The majority of the power in Bonetooth comes from % AD increase, meaning he gets little to no value from building full tank, and since his Base Damage doesn't scale very well it means that Tank Rengar is pretty garbage compared to AD / Bruiser ( item 1400 item 3071 item 3142 item 3742 item 3102 ) Or even full AD.

Isn't it amazing, how a snowballing mechanic makes you strong if you get ahead? WOW SHOCKING!

feryvunnyNov 16, 20164 votes

Yes I am aware that it's 5 UNIQUE enemies. Doesn't make it any more difficult. It's so fucking easy. I would love to have a free AD deathcap for killing 5 people. It's not that hard believe it or not. You can cap those stacks as early as mid-game if not earlier, which is stupid. I don't mind the mechanic itself, just tone down the absurd numbers.

I am also aware that the leap gives a stack from entering combat. Doesn't change the fact that he can still 1 shot faster than ever before and still escape with cc immunity. Riot wanted to extend his burst window, as with all the other assassins, they failed in that aspect. And that is the problem. Understand?

The fact that he even HAS a bruiser build that's viable is the problem. Assassins aren't supposed to build bruiser and tank. We've been through this, and Riot has nerfed it when it came up in the past. You fail to realize he can have_** 356 AD**_ with just Ghost Blade, Warrior, and half of Cleaver. The rest he can build to survive and still 1 shot. How is that healthy at all? Rengar should have to go FULL AD to 1 shot, same with the other assassins. 1 shotting with 2+ pure tank items is fucking stupid and unhealthy. He's an ASSASSIN. Not a Xin Zhao on steroids.

"Isn't it amazing, how a snowballing mechanic makes you strong if you get ahead? WOW SHOCKING!" - With your petty sarcasm aside, again that isn't the problem. The problem is he can still 1 shot as quick as before. Yes, there is more counterplay available now. But it honestly is no easier to 1 shot with new Rengar than it is with old Rengar. In fact it's even safer now that you can build tank items and your passive can substitute for practically a fully built AD item. How is this healthy? Please do tell.

Either way, Rengar is 100% getting nerfed. Whether you like it or not. Maybe you can e-mail Riot's balance team a sarcastic letter in hopes to buff Rengar some more.

KetiNov 16, 20162 votes

The best part is that he's now extremely clunky and can't lane very effectively, while his jungler clear is absolutely insane since q is an aoe.

HazyCloud7Nov 16, 201635 votes

Your poll sucks. The time to kill on Rengar is much different than the time to kill on the likes of reworked LeBlanc, Fizz and Katarina.

barbarianskullNov 16, 20164 votes

{quoted}

Your poll sucks. The time to kill on Rengar is much different than the time to kill on the likes of reworked LeBlanc, Fizz and Katarina.

Totally agree.

Earl EulrichNov 16, 20166 votes

not sure, in the context i´d think the poll only applies to the rework of rengar. otherwise i´d agree, most assassin reworks actually did a good job in adding delay to the burst for actual counterplay (less good reworks include fizz (though he has to hit the long range ult to oneshot), kha and rengar)

MaizieaNov 16, 201616 votes

From my experience the new assassins are now easier to outplay as an ADC, however I'm getting absolutely fucked over by them when playing tanks or bruisers/fighters, whatever they're called, champions like Trundle building 4 tank items+Titanic hydra.

NightmareAmazoXNov 16, 20162 votes

Trundle is a bruiser/tank.

Spaceman5pffNov 16, 20163 votes

He kinda covered that with the "Tanks or Bruiser / Fighter, whatever they're called" bit.

Civet10Nov 16, 20163 votes

Saying "Tanks or bruisers/fighters, whatever they're called"implies that they dont know what they are classed as, so Id say this is a fair response

Done25Nov 16, 201611 votes

Step 1: Find someone with CC Step 2: Stand near them. Step 3: Laugh as Rengar jumps at the tank and gets slapped down like a bad kitty.

dominusxNov 16, 201612 votes

plot twist he kills you both because you splitpushed with no armor and he got fed on you. BUT BUT MUH COUNTERPLAY I SHOULD BE ABLE TO 1V1 CHAMPS THAT ARE DESIGNED TO KILL ME.

Kingdom CornNov 16, 20167 votes

But me is adc main1!1!! I shud be able to 1v1 assassin if me cant then assassin broken1!1! /S

GULAG 4 UNov 17, 20162 votes

"pls i cannot git gud give me pills"

DarkSunSovereignNov 16, 201610 votes

Bad poll, you seem to be talking about the assassin update in general, not just Rengar's.

VisthaNov 16, 20168 votes

Well. Vayne does that in 0.00 seconds.

Imperial JapanNov 16, 20167 votes

{quoted}

Rengar still does 1700 damage in 0.27 seconds.

Chill until preseason is over. Like holy hell its a PRE season for a reason.

EatAssSkateFastNov 16, 20166 votes

[{quoted}](name=DLTD Stuart,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=geasqnWJ,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-11-16T09:13:43.932+0000)

Chill until preseason is over. Like holy hell its a PRE season for a reason.

Are you fucking high? His ult gives vision and is a guaranteed crit. How is that worthless in any way?

LXIINov 16, 201612 votes

It's only vision and a guaranteed crit on the closest person. If you have someone (preferably a tank) position to where Rengar can't get past them he loses a lot of damage on the jump if he chooses to go after the unmarked target.

My Waifu VanillaNov 16, 20161 votes

I mean his ult lasts 30 seconds so he can just wait around until the ADC is the closest person such as by simply running around the back. After level 16 Rengar ult will usually just have 12 seconds of downtime if you choose not to actually uses the leap which is fairly close to permanent (it's like 6 seconds if you take the 45% cdr mastery).

LXIINov 16, 20163 votes

The cooldown starts after you either jump on someone or let it run out. So no, there is not only 12 seconds of downtime.

My Waifu VanillaNov 17, 20161 votes

It definitely starts on cast. I have played Rengar like 3 times and can say for a matter of fact that there is no reason after level 16 to not be using your ultimate on cd because it only has 12 seconds of downtime.

Supreme Senpai69Nov 17, 20162 votes

Not to beat a dead horse but I'm pretty sure it doesn't start on cast. I had a Rengar in my game today feed his ass off. At one point he ulted in the jungle and walked to base to buy items. He was a special kind of stupid, and that's why I paid such close attention to him. I asked myself, "Did that Rengar just ult?" He was invisible. He snapped out of invisibility and the circle bar above his head turned to zero.

LXIINov 17, 20162 votes

No, it doesn't. I have played Rengar like 30 (that's more than 3) times since the rework. It starts after the leap or you let it run out.

Kingdom CornNov 16, 20166 votes

Vision of 1 person... aka i could see mf only but reality is there is a jannah, sion, and malphite sitting with her about to fuck me. Rengar 's. Vision has literally become a bait for rengar himself.

KylozNov 16, 201610 votes

{quoted}

Are you fucking high? His ult gives vision and is a guaranteed crit. How is that worthless in any way?

You act like him gaining vision is a new thing, yet they completely nerfed it and people still complain about it LUL

Daddy GangplankNov 16, 20161 votes

He is supposed to do that as an assassin God damn they stated that in patch notes.

Imperial JapanNov 17, 20161 votes

{quoted}

He is supposed to do that as an assassin God damn they stated that in patch notes.

Yes but as of now all riot did was remove counterplay by adding easy to preform outplay in rengars kit

Daddy GangplankNov 17, 20161 votes

What? If a rengar can easily outplay you then you're retarded... I don't see how he can outplay you easily, in fact, you should be able to easily outplay him for example showing up solo on map while your team stays behind you. He'll surely ult,jump on you and if he doesn't magically escape your team's damage then he's dead. His Q is a flashable skillshot that is the primary damage in his kit, you can see him coming from the other corner of the map(in fact everyone has the black border). How much obvious counterplay is needed for a fucking bronze to understand.

Imperial JapanNov 22, 20161 votes

{quoted}

What? If a rengar can easily outplay you then you're retarded... I don't see how he can outplay you easily, in fact, you should be able to easily outplay him for example showing up solo on map while your team stays behind you. He'll surely ult,jump on you and if he doesn't magically escape your team's damage then he's dead. His Q is a flashable skillshot that is the primary damage in his kit, you can see him coming from the other corner of the map(in fact everyone has the black border). How much obvious counterplay is needed for a fucking bronze to understand.

I'm too lazy to find my post you replied to. Go find that and copy paste this response and i'll respond.

TwinkieProNov 16, 20166 votes

I don't agree with your options in the poll. If strictly pertaining to Rengar, then no, it was not a great change.

SlntReaperNov 16, 20166 votes

Be thankful it's late game, because old Rengo kill you early as well.
Also, did you put the tank in front? Might be a good idea.

LuxannaVeritasNov 16, 20166 votes

Rengar still does 1700 damage in .27 seconds...

...if you are too far pushed up and you don't have control wards up and you don't happen to notice that you or an ally near you has that new mark over their head which means you should probably back to somewhere more safe.

The assassin rework might've been trying to change how fast one is able to die, but the TRUE and MOST IMPORTANT goal of this rework, in my opinion, was to add counterplay to the assassins so people can avoid their skills. With Rengar and most of the other assassins, I think this was achieved to a great extent; I can now know when Rengar is invisible, which is a HUGE nerf to Rengar.

(Also, imo, assassins are MADE to punish clumsy enemy play; if you're pushed up without wards, assassins have a much easier time deleting your health bar. Assassins are meant to 100-0 you, and if you don't like it, build tankier or play smarter so that the assassins don't have the time or opportunity to go off.)

GayFluffyUnicornNov 17, 20161 votes

And what does rengar care when he has a cleanse, self heal and murders even 1v4? HAve u seen Dekar on rengar top? He jumps in 4 people like always and just murders them. New rengar is utterly broken as always.

LuxannaVeritasNov 17, 20162 votes

Yeah, because he is an ASSASSIN.

The point is that all of Rengar's engage can be avoided with smart playing. Yes, he might have a self heal and cleanse, but those can be easily played around with the right skills and items.

And like MOST OTHER champions, if they get fed they can totally 1v4. And champions get fed when the other team makes a lot of mistakes. It's just the nature of the game; if you're so sick of him taking over your games, play better!

TeCoolMageNov 16, 20165 votes

Poll only applies to rengar. If the context was about Leblanc, Talon and Katarina the results would be so different

Praetor NotoriasNov 16, 20163 votes

I can do almost twice that with Anivia. Context is really important here.

Anivia's w on a full build does like 10 thousand damages cause of it's stupid scaling mechanic. It's op as fuck when it blocks off the escape route of some imobile squishy that the team then bounces on.

Daddy GangplankNov 16, 20163 votes

http://imgur.com/a/ozHle Do you read patch notes? Do you see what they said? They gave you a huge ass mark that is visible from up to 4000 range. I don't see the problem and they said they're fine with him oneshotting LUL.

GayFluffyUnicornNov 17, 20161 votes

Oh okay, riot not biased at all or something. Destroying Zed and Leblanc because they assassinate "too effective" but that's not rengars issue? Are you kidding me? Rengar full ap? no problem, still oneshots you. Full ad, crit, bruiser, tank, always oneshots you. But now you atleast know from 4k range that you are going to die. Great change.

Kingdom CornNov 17, 20161 votes

U know from 4k range that u have time to run to malphite and bait rengar to his death.

Hentai LewdsNov 16, 20162 votes

Well at least now he kills you in 0.27 not in 0.20 xD I see some improvement .

DengedenNov 16, 20162 votes

You can see him now though. And his Q is a 2parter so idk.

CowseedNov 16, 20162 votes

You forgot option C. Half the assassins die faster

Autrah FangNov 16, 20162 votes

"Did the assassin rework change anything pertaining to how fast one is able to die?"

is the poll referring to the ENTIRE assassin rework, or just Rengar specifically? from my experience, i found that as far as Talon, Leblanc, and Akali are concerned; yes, people do not die as fast as before. however, as far as everyone else (except for Katarina, i can't say anything about her since i haven't fought one yet, nor have i played her), their burst times are either the same, or possibly even stronger than before.