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Support - Why I'm Quitting

Amora Lorealis··89 votes·6,146 views

Dear Riot Games,

I am a game designer and data analyst by trade, and I used to be a support main. I've uninstalled your game and will not be spending any more money on skins or swag.

First, by your own admission, you are aware that ADCs are a punchline this season (datamine for "adc in 2017" in your chat logs, and see how many hits you get). You have improved assassin and bruiser capabilities far beyond any support's ability to peel, in quite a few cases making bruisers immune to CC, while simultaneously improving snowballing capabilities for many champions. You've also added extra gold for first tower, which sets up the snowball even more (thank you, ZT Xperimentor, for pointing this out). This has the effect of having games realistically over by or even before the 10 minute mark, which makes perhaps 95% of ADCs obsolete (query "open mid" next and see how many games are given up before 20 min mark). Ziggs, Cassiopeia, Teemo, Gnar, and even Vlad (because of W) are often more viable than most ADCs botlane. This is both a problem of immobile ADCs and lack of strong-enough or reliable-enough CCs for supports. This is an incredibly obvious imbalance and it's mind-boggling to me, as a designer, that this isn't the topmost priority of your balancing department. Rather, they spend their time tinkering with questionable changes (nerf? buff?) to Syndra.

Second, one of the most played supports this season is APC Zyra, and for good reason - Zyra's plant proc Thunderlords, unlike any other summoned minion (e.g. Malzahar). But more fundamentally, two core items for supports - Crucible and Locket - were nerfed (no more AoE MR). Most Season 7 guides on Mobafire don't list these as core any more. I'm honestly at a loss as to why protective support items were nerfed, in particular in terms of MR. Survivability in botlane is negligible this season and has always been precarious in previous ones. I would learn Blitz just to fight this meta, but the underlying problem would still be there and it's not worth my time any more. I already was learning Karma, but you nerfed her, too, and what's to stop you from nerfing Blitz next?

Third, let me tell you what you must already know - we supports are flamed for securing/taking kills. I played most of my games with friends, so I had it relatively better, but even I got people complain because I secured one kill. One kill. Even if my Bubble had ensured the kill in the first place. This is a fundamental problem with support items. They're cheaper, weaker, and considered relatively unimportant except for indirect, general use such as vision. This also has a simple fix. Like with Relic Shield, if a player is killed by a support, the team and/or your nearest team member gets gold share. Add this onto support starter items and you no longer have missed kills because supports tried not to last hit, and no more supports flamed for securing or inadvertently taking kills with Nami's heal.

Fourth, speaking of vision, Sightstone needs a support-specific buff. By support-specific, I'm talking about something that would benefit botlane, not Lee Sin. Both Trinket and Pink Wards were nerfed for Season 7, which means more risk for less vision control. Since this item is essential for the team as early as possible, supports are always playing catch-up in terms of itemization while having to risk themselves to ward in useful places. Sightstone should have a Farsight-like ward available if you get a certain mastery in a support-oriented utility tree. Support-oriented masteries are so often a joke (2nd branch of Cunning tree, anyone?) that it's quite obvious that these were not built with supports in mind.

I am leaving the game until changes are made to make ADCs and supports useful again. At this rate, "support" will be secondary mage, and adcs will just be treats for Warwick. I hope Riot is paying attention, because they seem to care about queue times, and clearly they've had problems with getting people to play support (autofill to support). You don't care about us - that's why we quit.

Best,

Amora Lorealis

174 Comments

duckarp20 votes

This also has a simple fix. Like with Relic Shield, if a player is killed by a support, the team and/or your nearest team member gets gold share. Add this onto support starter items and you no longer have missed kills because supports tried not to last hit, and no more supports flamed for securing or inadvertently taking kills with Nami's heal.

I proposed the EXACT same thing about month ago, no one cared. :/ It's sad, because it's such an easy fix I find it mind-boggling Riot can't still figure it out.

Aptest35 votes

its not broken and needs no fixing. the support getting the kill gold is not a problem. "i scale better with gold" is outright a fiction. the solution is not altering the gold streams in the game. it is just for support players to stop caring. and for ADC players to deal with it.

duckarp5 votes

You can't change mindset of 100 mil. players. The fact is that the support role isn't interesting to a HUGE majority and Riot needs to deal with that asap. It doesn't matter "what's right" if people don't want to play it. You can create the most complicated and perfect system, but if it isn't interesting to people, you will fail. The solution isn't to tell them "hey, but we think it's the best thing in the world". If you try to force them, they will leave. Being stubborn and ignoring an opinion of millions of players is not a very wise thing to do.

The sooner Riot realizes this (and you too), the better. Downvotes won't make you right.

Aptest2 votes

I request that you address my words within the context in which they are spoken. The context is: supports grabbing kills and getting the kill gold, as opposed to other players on the team, specifically ADCs, getting said gold.

As for the second topic of "support not interesting":

If I play heal/shield/buff/protect than obviously I am not making the plays, not dealing the damage, not grabbing the aggro. So what do i need items for?

But if I play the principle play maker on the team, or a secondary damage dealer - both roles are more interesting to most people than shield/heal/buff/protect - than I 100% need gold because I am making plays, dealing damage, sitting in the other team's face and getting aggroed.

and guess what when I am playing these roles I am 100% not interested in some very strong support items like item 3107. Because their strong support of the heal/shield/buff/protect line of play is at a direct expense of the line of play I am pursuing.

Personally I strive to play a principle or secondary play maker for the team. I am far less interested in shield/heal/buff/protect gameplay (although I sometimes choose,like and enjoy that too). The role of secondary damage dealer is less my cup of tea but there are a lot of people who outright prefer this also.

Making support more palatable doesn't mean somehow making people magically enjoy playing Janna: because that is not something that will happen. It means supporting Malzahar as a viable botlane non-farmer. That is going to be to some extent at the expense of Janna players, and ALSO at the expense of anybody playing a character that depends on Janna being a strong and common pick.

I.E. to make support more compelling to all, we have to fuck with Janna/Soraka/Sona/Taric players. We also have to fuck with any ADC player that mains "I need you to protect me" characters like Jinx.

Conversely, if Janna is the ultimate support botlane and you should 100% grab her every time because she is not only very strong herself but her play style is definitely the strongest most viable way to go, than THAT puts off a lot of would be support players who are not as interested in the buff/shield/heal/protect line of play and would rather go top lane instead.

Rabblerouser3 votes

Support also tends to have the impetus to actually read comps and pick their champ based on what they see. Janna isn't always a good pick, neither is Malz always a good pick.

Also... putting Taric and Sona in the same pool as Soraka and Janna? - Taric and Sona can KILL it botlane and be aggressive. Soraka and Janna are usually 99% of the time very passive.

Source: I'm a Taric main. :P Sometimes I even forego Exhaust and go Ghost for blitzkrieg initiations.

sheldonbunny4 votes

{quoted}

You can't change mindset of 100 mil. players. The fact is that the support role isn't interesting to a HUGE majority and Riot needs to deal with that asap. It doesn't matter "what's right" if people don't want to play it. You can create the most complicated and perfect system, but if it isn't interesting to people, you will fail. The solution isn't to tell them "hey, but we think it's the best thing in the world". If you try to force them, they will leave. Being stubborn and ignoring an opinion of millions of players is not a very wise thing to do.

The sooner Riot realizes this (and you too), the better. Downvotes won't make you right.

No it proves humanity is full of selfish and self serving creatures. The fact that only a minority truly enjoy the support role and embrace exactly what it embodies only proves it more. The role is fine. They can tweak and incentivize a bit to try to get more people to play, but overall it simply takes a particular personality. No different than the role of healer in most MMOs.

Humanity's flaws certainly aren't going to change, but neither should the will of the few bow to the many. It's a team game. All five roles are important.

{quoted}

As for sona. She has been pacified a lot. Again she can kill, but she is not the bully she used to be.

Sona has been, still is, and will likely always be a lane bully. It was long before they messed with her and she was FOTM for a time last season. It's a build and moreover a playstyle. Those who play her passively and utility based do so at the expense of raw damage she can put out. It's at a great risk as any glass cannon build is, but it can and does work.

This is coming from the AP Sona support who chases tank supports and their marksman to their tower, lol.

duckarp5 votes

No it proves humanity is full of selfish and self serving creatures.

Yes, it does. I think it's even more terrifying when you realize the exact same people walk around us every single day and we need to deal with them.

Humanity's flaws certainly aren't going to change, but neither should the will of the few bow to the many. It's a team game. All five roles are important.

Well, there's the problem. All five roles are important. So if we have a huge shortage of players in one role, everyone suffers. Riot needs to find a way how to mitigate the issue, in one way or another. There's no way around that I'm afraid.

Take Overwatch for instance. There is a support role as well, but people actually enjoy playing it. I can't remember a single match in OW where no one would want to play the role. In OW you can play actively as a support, you can (and should) deal damage, kill enemies, participate in everything etc. You're not restricted to some limited gameplay. Sure, OW is quite different from LoL, but it's just one example of a working support role where people enjoy playing it.

Riot was fighting the idea of a practice tool for a very long time (how long is that? 7-8 years?), so it takes them a very long time and are obviously very stubborn. However, maybe it's time to find a way how to alter the roles a bit without sacrificing the whole game. Because right now, I think their approach is hugely similar to this quote from them:

“Until then, Summoner’s Rift was like a sacred baby,” technical artist Brendon “RiotVitzkrieg” Vitz says, “It was so carefully designed—there was no way we could touch it.”

sheldonbunny5 votes

{quoted}

Yes, it does. I think it's even more terrifying when you realize the exact same people walk around us every single day and we need to deal with them.

Well, there's the problem. All five roles are important. So if we have a huge shortage of players in one role, everyone suffers. Riot needs to find a way how to mitigate the issue, in one way or another. There's no way around that I'm afraid.

Take Overwatch for instance. There is a support role as well, but people actually enjoy playing it. I can't remember a single match in OW where no one would want to play the role. In OW you can play actively as a support, you can (and should) deal damage, kill enemies, participate in everything etc. You're not restricted to some limited gameplay. Sure, OW is quite different from LoL, but it's just one example of a working support role where people enjoy playing it.

Riot was fighting the idea of a practice tool for a very long time (how long is that? 7-8 years?), so it takes them a very long time and are obviously very stubborn. However, maybe it's time to find a way how to alter the roles a bit without sacrificing the whole game. Because right now, I think their approach is hugely similar to this quote from them:

I'm all for finding a way to encourage fresh blood in the role, but for the right reasons. I've tried out Overwatch a few months back. I still enjoy support more in League than I do there, but I never was into the online deathmatch type of game for FPS. I always enjoy single player or co-op better. A very fun game though.

But you and Overwatch do have a good point. Support should be celebrated as much as damage dealers. With the advent of the new client, I think they need to overhaul the post game results screen as well as the match history section. By no means my idea but i'll bring it up regardless, warding should be added into the in client results and shielding needs to be added after the healing information.

I think the issue is that people want some form of validation, however big or small, in the support role. It's natural and normal. It's not so much that a player needs to be damaging the enemy, but they need to feel that what they're doing is impactful. Even if your team won't voice it, a results screen might help those in the support role feel their efforts aren't for naught.

As a support main, I don't need my ego stroked, but there's no feeling like being praised and thanked by your team. Even better if the enemy team comments. It's those small moments that truly make me work even harder at the role, knowing i'm helping my team and keeping them safe.

Aptest2 votes

embrace exactly what it embodies

http://www.prakriti.org.in/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Dr-seuss-you.png

I can't respond to you just on your argument. I apologize in advance. The function of the non-farming champion in the game is actually open to interpretation in this game. "what the support role embodies" is not something that is fixed or known or even widely accepted. There's a bunch of things that you can do, and a bunch of additional things that you might be able to do if the balance of the game shifts even a tiny bit.

"what it embodies" is a fiction. It is basically a narrow view that you, and some other people who share your view, think that the support role is about.

Other people are free to disagree with you. Moreover, that they do disagree with you in a POSITIVE THING. Because that disagreement ultimately brings diversity to the role, the champion pool, the range of choices that you can make within the game, your position and function within the context of the team, and with all those things also increases the player pool because it makes the role attractive to all those people who don't fill quite right with "what the support role embodies" and are actually ok with some of the other interpretations.

Actually, even you disagree with you. Which is where I pull up your game history and bring your zyra build into the discussion.

should the will of the few bow to the many. It's a team game. All five roles are important.

https://www.yukoncollege.yk.ca/phpthumb/phpThumb.php?src=/images/pages/you_matter_poster_final_Page_2.jpg&bg=FFFFFF&w=267&zc=1

Everybody wants there to be more support players. But a lot of players, specifically ADC players, prefer supports to do "supporty" things and leave the "carrying" to others.

These two ideas conflict and you are not going to reconcile them by having a nicer looking after game screen with an "automated praise the support" announcement. Most people are not hunting for praise from other players. They are hunting for praise from themselves and that can only be gotten by having achieved some internal goal.

The pool of players who seek out heal/buff/shield/protect gameplay is tapped. By making this line of play better you may be increasing their satisfaction, but everybody else now feels they should be playing Janna as their go-to support: At which point, they want to maybe play riven instead.

I'm all for finding a way to encourage fresh blood in the role, but for the right reasons.

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTbapf7ACdQTJLQ2ilbWslEtkw8hPcEqRLFr94aXtaRgtQlKCmWuQ

What are the right reasons? and how do you encourage people to have them? Since you can not make the player's mind for them, the game has to fit the players, not the other way around.

I think the issue is that people want some form of validation, however big or small, in the support role.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/06/10/20/1465586696126_lc_galleryImage_France_s_Antoine_Griezman.JPG

Talking of myself, I do want some form of validation. From myself. But not all kinds of validation mean the same to me. Preventing damage with a shield is pretty low on my list of satisfaction bringers. So is saving allies (this is quite stressful actually, because they are dumb enough to go get a second helping of getting bitch slapped). Tagging along some other guy and buffing them and enabling them in a play is also quite low. Showing up in the nick of time and turning something around to my team's benefit is much, much higher, and catching the enemy jungler in his jungle and nuking him while my team supplements damage is higher still.

I do not know what everybody wants in the game. I do know that people do want to pursue some king of power fantasy, and that those fantasies differ between players.

And most people don't play a game to enact the fantasy of being everybody's bitch (well actually some do).

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18dmf2qlq9r8yjpg/original.jpg

Therefore any make up presentation that is supposed to "change the world" by changing perception or language, is doomed to fail if reality conflicts with the view presented.

The client stroking the player's ego will have zero impact on the situation in the game. Because reality creates the perception of reality better than any made up presentation. If I shield the enemy mid laner's ult, leading the survival of my mid laner, and then proceed to snare them and apply my damage while my surviving team mate blitzes them with his long range spells, that is my reality right there and the post game results screen is completely irrelevant unless it is at 100% agreement with it.

While it would be nice if the announcer could go, "morgana comes in at the last second with a clutch play, saves varus and secures the kill on lux", that is totally outside the ability of current announcer technology, i fear.

would be cool though riot, if you can do that.

Amora Lorealis1 votes

Please stop taking your own experience and generalizing that to the entire human experience. We don't actually all want internal validation. Social validation is huge in the human experience, as so many examples - from Overwatch's Commendations (which League's upvote thing should be replaced with - one click instead of click, choose from 3 equally useless options, and click again) to Facebook's Likes to Youtube's Thumbs Up - are strong evidence for this. Your experience doesn't encompass the whole human "reality" or experience.

The whole point of game design, in fact, is to make users do certain things. If we made games to "fit the players," then all games would be exactly the same. Not all League players are like you. Not all League players are the same.

The point of different, viable itemization for supports, for example, is to accommodate for multiple playstyles. If you don't want to get an item with auto-gold-share-on-kill, then don't buy it! But the option would be nice to have for us more passive supports that don't have AP scaling and want to help our Draven or Jhin or Vayne or Twitch hit early power spikes.

Aptest2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Amora Lorealis,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fmkX9L8v,comment-id=00020000000000010000000000000001,timestamp=2017-01-19T01:58:27.061+0000)

Please stop taking your own experience and generalizing that to the entire human experience. We don't actually all want internal validation. Social validation is huge in the human experience, as so many examples - from Overwatch's Commendations (which League's upvote thing should be replaced with - one click instead of click, choose from 3 equally useless options, and click again) to Facebook's Likes to Youtube's Thumbs Up - are strong evidence for this. Your experience doesn't encompass the whole human "reality" or experience.

Ok, you got my interest.

The whole point of game design, in fact, is to make users do certain things. If we made games to "fit the players," then all games would be exactly the same. Not all League players are like you. Not all League players are the same.

If you havn't followed my "line of play" in this discussion, all I talk about is having access to different play styles, removing barriers to using different play styles and promoting support role "independent agency".

I use my own experience as a model because it is distinct and different from the prevailing idea on "what support should be like" (tagalong CC peelbot with no damage that shields and heals and specifically helps the ADC). My own experience provides me with a way of coloring the different experiences I wish to open for support players, in such a way that they are distinct.

The point of different, viable itemization for supports, for example, is to accommodate for multiple playstyles. If you don't want to get an item with auto-gold-share-on-kill, then don't buy it! But the option would be nice to have for us more passive supports that don't have AP scaling and want to help our Draven or Jhin or Vayne or Twitch hit early power spikes.

I fully agree. Which is why I ultimately like redemption as an item although I hate buying it and hate using it. If I want to go full damage or full tank I have these options also.

What I am lacking is items that open up play styles. Top laners got an item that allowed them to overcome not having innate pushing power. How about something like that for supports? (i mean one that actually works as opposed to BOC)

ShaolinToilet4 votes

Support in overwatch actually carries games easily.

Rabblerouser12 votes

I agree completely. If the ADC tilts because a support accidentally took a kill, that's they're problem.

They still earned gold, they have pressure now that there's one less in lane. They're raging over a GOOD thing. Granted, it could've been a perfect thing. But still, they're looking a gift horse in the mouth. All that's lost is a little bit of potential.

Aptest11 votes

"accidentally"?

it's more like supports who know their shit have other things on their mind and basically do not leave kills outside of extreme cases.

Glory ln Death7 votes

Seriously. I supported a Draven as Sion the other day, we got the enemy Vayne super low, forcing her to Flash-Tumble away under her turret. I had been forward tanking her damage and CC'ing her for Draven, who was behind me. He turned around to catch the last axe he had thrown, and so was well out of range for a kill (not level 6 yet), and Vayne was now deep under her tower.

So, I sniped her with a minion. After Vayne died, Draven flashed in. "Why you KS me?!?!"

Because you were running the opposite way? Because we had no minions under their tower and both of us were too low to realistically dive? Because you took two tower shots to the face and now have to back instead of pushing the turret? Because it was the safest way to ensure we still got the kill and we're able to take advantage of it?

And he just kept doing stuff like that - nearly dying for a kill (sometimes actually dying...) because he just had to sprint under their tower to get that last auto or two (or 4) off. So, even though he ended up with a good number of kills, he never got to take advantage of the kills by getting cs or pushing the tower down.

People need to learn: if getting the kill means you'll have to recall to heal, it isn't usually worth it. If they have to back, anyways, let them. Get a cs lead, push the wave to their turret and take it, or at least damage it, roam to another lane, take dragon, etc. That's worth way more than a kill that forces you to back after.

AirKingNeo3 votes

Why even argue if a support gets the kill. Faster they can buy Redemption, Locket, and every other broken support item to make me stronger.

R1NGW0LF3 votes

as support main I can't argue this but in solo queue I end up getting paranoid about if i'll take the kill, will I die if I ward that bush, why do they keep going under tower etc.......

so long story short I try to play with 3 friends at a time as to not worry about to much "we lost cause of the support" whining

so I say in the end I will not apologize for an accident anymore and they can just enjoy the benefit of the opening I made them

may the stars guide you Soraka

EROTIC RAID BOSS2 votes

it's not fiction, supports are designed to function with barely any gold, while adcs scale most with gold.

however, its also not really a big deal if the support gets a few kills on accident.

Aptest2 votes

I'll tell you why it is.

Carrying games is basically making plays on the other team. What makes you able to make plays?

Having vision Having mobility Having CC Having Tankyness to prevent other team fighting back or to expend their resources when they do Having damage

The ADC only has one of those tools and they get it late in the game. Whereas the support can get 2-3 of those stats very early in the game with minimal gold input.

I.E. the support has access to a "power spike" early in the game. If they get a gold lead, or even gold disparity with other champions, they get to access it, and with it they can - since they have a power spike - snowball the lead.

Yes in a 40 min game the ADC will scale harder with the same gold. but in the first 15 min the support will unlock 2-3 power spikes that the ADC simply can not match. And those power spikes can absolutely decide the game.

EROTIC RAID BOSS4 votes

if you get a bf sword and your lane opponent only has a pickaxe, that lane is swung heavily in your favor early game. if the other adc has a 2 kill lead on you, you're probably going to be useless for the next 20 minutes of the game. an early sightstone is nice but lets not pretend getting gold on the adc is not important.

I don't ever give supports shit for taking kills, because it happens and often its the right call, and I do it too lol, but lets be real. the gold is a bigger deal on the adc. its game changing.

Aptest1 votes

I am not saying an early item 1038 sword is not good.

I am saying it is worth **Less **than an early item 2049/item 3108/item 3117 on the support

because it is not you who has the lead, it is us. The choice is not whether the ADC has a BF lead or not, it is whether the lead is converted to a BF on the ADC, or to a fiendish codex on the support.

As a support player, my personal preference is to have the codex. Putting my own power fantasy aside, here are my reasoning:

a. the value when WE are trading with the other duo is about the same. b. I can roam better than you. c. I can gank better than you. d. If the jungler needs help it's me that's gonna go do it. e. I can project power elsewhere on the map better than you.

EROTIC RAID BOSS4 votes

so you think every high elo or pro player in the world is wrong and you're right? lol. because if you notice in pro games, supports never take kills if they possibly help it, and if they can they give tower gold over to the carries only too.

you don't scale as hard with AP as an adc does with AD. I'm not trying to be a dick but I am saying you are definitely 100% wrong about support being the better one to take kills.

Amora Lorealis1 votes

I agree, Monado - ADCs need the gold more. But if support items allowed them to share or give up kill gold to ADCs, then it would remove the friction between these two roles and last-hitting the opponent.

Mobi boots are not that useful in laning phase because its major benefit (compared to, say, Lucidity) is out-of-combat movement speed. I would almost certainly want BF over Mobi in laning phase. Sightstone is also not that useful for laning since double Trinket and a Pink covers most/all essential vision spots. Of course, once Warwick's rework comes in, wards won't even matter (and they don't anyway for Evelynn, Shaco etc. right now).

In DOTA, for example, we could trade items, buy items for each other, etc. Sometimes if a user clearly deserved the kill but it was sniped, the sniper would buy an item for them. Perhaps supports could be allowed to transfer items to teammates bought with kill gold.

EROTIC RAID BOSS1 votes

I don't think it's really necessary. It just isn't a big deal you know?

Amora Lorealis2 votes

It shouldn't be! But it is. When I solo queue as sup, I've had ADCs int for a kill or two I secured, even after I apologize (I'm Canadian)! I can mute them, and I do, but no communication between ADC and sup sucks. Why have that friction there at all when you could fix it?

Riot intentionally meant for supports to support ADCs early game. Last-hitting is what matters in League for "who got the kill," but it also doesn't have to be this way. In Overwatch, for example, if you cross a certain threshold in damage leading to a kill, it also counts as "your" kill.

Riot can continue to ignore these problems by brushing them off as "no big deals," or they can actually tackle these botlane plagues so people actually want to play support (or at least not quit, like me.)

FantasySniper2 votes

Except when you get a support legit stealing kills and not even building damage, you really feel how hard it hits when even trading kills still puts you behind.

Aptest1 votes

if the support is getting kills while also not having damage, it's probably you the noob crappy ADC who are having a weaksauce game and arn't doing damage yourself.

when this happens the problem is 100% always with the ADC not applying damage on target. 2 AA and a skill then runaway while support is fighting and come back for the KS does not counts as "applying damage" mate.

FantasySniper2 votes

Alistar, Nami, etc., can easily combo to steal kills. Blitz, Sona, Morg, etc can already do that and ult.

The whole point of supports is that they have good base damages, whereas ADCs should not. The whole point of ADCs getting kills is because the ADCs scale damage better, and have to scale damage in order for your team to take objectives.

{quoted}

it's probably you the noob crappy ADC who are having a weaksauce game and arn't doing damage yourself.

You sound like the kind of guy that would spite people in game by whatever means necessary.

Aptest1 votes

If I am playing Alistar, nami, morg, sona, blitz... any support really, etc, usually I need to use them combo skills to make the kill happen. No combo no kill as simple as that.

So I generally don't have them same combo skills for "KSing". 9 out of 10 times where I get kills with nami it is with her weak AA.

You sound like the kind of guy that would spite people in game by whatever means necessary.

You are the kind of guy who, instead of answering on the argument, flames the speaker.

FantasySniper2 votes

{quoted}

it's probably you the noob crappy ADC who are having a weaksauce game and arn't doing damage yourself.

{quoted}

You are the kind of guy who, instead of answering on the argument, flames the speaker.

Did you just-

Didn't you just-

Hexs Fortune2 votes

{quoted}

its not broken and needs no fixing. the support getting the kill gold is not a problem. "i scale better with gold" is outright a fiction. the solution is not altering the gold streams in the game. it is just for support players to stop caring. and for ADC players to deal with it.

When the support gets the kill, I just enjoy the free farm

Glory ln Death1 votes

That would just make it so that ADCs are the ones who get flamed for stealing kills. You know how upset supports get when ADCs kill the cannon minion while the support has Relic Shield ready? Imagine what it would be like for champions worth 8 or 9 times as much as cannon minions.

That wouldn't just make it OK for supports to take kills sometimes, it would make it mandatory in order to maximize gold.

duckarp3 votes

Not necessarily, it would depend on the specific implementation. There are ways around that, for instance when you have a certain item and you're near a teammate, it doesn't matter if you kill the target or your partner, you would share the gold either way. To prevent abuse it would be probably on some reasonable cooldown. I'm not saying it's a finished solution and it would certainly need some tweaking, but it's one way of dealing with the problem.

BlueBilberry4 votes

{quoted}

I proposed the EXACT same thing about month ago, no one cared. :/ It's sad, because it's such an easy fix I find it mind-boggling Riot can't still figure it out.

Actually an easy fix is making any champion kill worth an amount of gold shared by the entire team. As soon as that is done, most of the snarky "FU <teammate>, you ks'd" comments would begin to disappear.

duckarp18 votes

Their whole management of developers is questionable at best and I really question their profesionality. Sometimes it seems their QA/Testing department is non-existent and judging based on some of their comments, I find it fascinating the game even works at the current state.

For instance they can't determine what exactly caused what damage. It's not visible only in the post-death screen, but they also admitted it directly on Boards.

Or this for instance:

The reimagined map had a few flaws, partially because it was created in a couple weeks, but it still helped deepen The Teemoing experience. This also marked the first time any changes were made to the Rift since its update. “Until then, Summoner’s Rift was like a sacred baby,” technical artist Brendon “RiotVitzkrieg” Vitz says, “It was so carefully designed—there was no way we could touch it.”

I mean, is that a joke? Do these people actually take money for their work?

I would LOVE to see their internal testing process, because it seems they make one small change and suddenly the error pops up in a completely different place (Teemo has suddenly in-game issues??). With proper methodologies in place it's just not possible, not like this. They surely do some internal testing first, then they push the changes to PBE and then it comes live. HOW does an error get through all of this to the live servers?

Flawed game design and refusal of implementing even the most basic features (it took them how long, 7 years to implement a practice tool that's STILL NOT FINISHED?) are just an icing on the cake.

When I asked a Rioter about problems on Boards and when they will fix it, he replied along the lines: "Boards team had been redirected to work on the new client, so we can't at the moment". WHAT? Are Riot's web developers seriously working on a game windows client? I'm seriously not surprised they have problems optimizing it and it's so buggy at the moment.

Next thing - feedback. How come many of the things on their websites are so outdated? Who's responsible for communicating with the players and why they just can't directly admit "hey, there's a problem with xyz, we will solve it like abc"? Many times there's some problem (for instance the event didn't start on time), but they keep us in the dark for several hours.

I honestly love the game, but its flaws are sometimes very infuriating.

ZT Xperimentor2 votes

Wait, they had a QA department? lol

RyuuStar10 votes

I think the most upsetting thing about this post is that none of these problems will be fixed in a reasonable amount of time. It's probably going to take longer than it should because they are so busy finding other irrelevant things to work on.

Darth Sidiouss9 votes

The thing is that the balance priority has shifted to rather unimportant things and has tendency to do that over and over. Notice how whenever these class overhaul updates come out the whole meta takes a drastic shift and then when people are upset by it takes sooooooooooo long for them revert the issue or admit they were wrong going in that particular direction in the first place. At this point the game is too snow bally but no action will be taken because they already have taken course in the direction their going only months after the backlash will they consider changes. Its a ridiculous behavioral pattern for a game company.

Valderis Vandala7 votes

I like your sightstone/mastery idea.

Taliyahc7 votes

Maybe if supports could HAVE A NEW CHAMP ONCE IN A WHILE TOO

thatd be cool, totally havent waited a year and a half or anything but dont mind me

Fairyfleur4 votes

AD Carries themeselves aren't bad, they just can't scale as quickly as they need to with how fast the game is. EDIT: Nevermind, I missed something in the beginning of your post. However, Vladimir takes just as much time to scale as any ADC. His early game is very weak.

Xela Syab4 votes

I agree with the OP entirely, I'm a support main and I can't carry the game as Janna anymore, been having to play support Brand just to win games because the game is too snowball and doesn't offer any strategic options besides win lane = win game / 5 man bot asap. I have to admit that playing Brand has made me better at decision making and harass in lane with utility supports.

I just feel weird that if I want to competitively support I have to pick a mid laner Brand Zyra Malzahar lol.

AirKingNeo2 votes

Have you tried building Redemption and Locket? Also supports can't carry unless they have AoE shields.

sheldonbunny2 votes

{quoted}

Have you tried building Redemption and Locket? Also supports can't carry unless they have AoE shields.

Or they kill the hell out of the enemy team and outdamage both sides. That works too, and is far more fun. :P

ZT Xperimentor3 votes

You forgot the major nerf to the bottom tower, when they were already pathetically weak; and then riot added another free gold bonus because games weren't snowballing fast enough already last season.

ModKnightsKemplar3 votes

Riot has their own data to look at. They know support is the biggest issue with their game, and I think they are thinking about major re-structuring of the support role.

The pressure created by support players leaving will directly impact the way they approach the problem. I have not gotten to that point, myself, but I applaud you for voting with your feet and not just flaming on boards. I hope you stick to it, because money talks. And players generate money. People not playing the game is the thing that will make them change.

Amora Lorealis3 votes

Thank you, I will! I'm glad that you're still having fun. It's sad that I just bought Elementalist Lux and a few skins for friends for Christmas. I will put my money where my mouth is, and for now, it'll have to be Overwatch and FFXIV!

ModKnightsKemplar3 votes

Good luck! I selfishly hope they get their act together before I leave, too... I'm pretty far from that point right now, though.

Sraeg20133 votes

Rather, they spend their time tinkering with questionable changes (nerf? buff?) to Syndra.

The questionable change to Syndra was done on May 2016. The last one was them swallowing their Vegeta levels of pride and fixing what they broke, and which initially required no fixing. Oh, and it's a nerf to her general killing capability, which was needed, because the multi-sphere throw was simply cancerous and I'm saying that as a Syndra main with 5 years of experience.

I agree with the rest, though.

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