i think the zhonya,once a 120 ap item, although rightfully nerfed down to 100,this nerf is unjustified,also you can't just nerf zhonya's while maw of malmortius is still rocking the win rates......,what im thinking is,boost the zhonya's ap from 70 to 80,and give it 20% cdr instead of 10,i think that's a rather healthy change.[zombie-brand-mindblown]
Saianna2 votesActive + Armor > ap + cdr + price
By buffing Ap or CDR you are sealing the fate of Zhyona as overnerfed piece of garbage that even mages don't feel like buying.
DJ Katarina1 votes
YES PLEASE
gets kill
Ayyeeee ult's refreshed!
Kats build so far: 
I'm aware CDR isn't the best stat for her due to her passive, but CDR = fewer kills/assists needed for a full ult reset. However, both & are pretty staple items in her build. Zhonya's active is too good to pass up, and Kat loves the mpen from Abyssal. As a Kat main, it's nice to do well, yes it is. However, I don't want to see her buffed (through items) to a point where there's so much crying on the boards that she's nerfed into uselessness again :\
Wenderwall1 votesI think it's a damn good change. AP (burst damage mazes and assassins) they get it with lot of AP + pretty safe active + good armor. That is an OP item. This change will, probably, ensure that AP assassins have to trade in AP for safety.
That said, this change is awesome for all sups ;)/ CDR based champs. (e.g. 
, 
) I'll save 500 and get 10% CDR. That's saves me an item slot looking for CDR
Before you ask. 
is 500 and that's the item one should buy to compensate for lost AP.
has been nerfed in 6.7, donno what you are speaking . It no more gives huge AS buff.
NeoBrawler4 votesI think it's a damn good change. AP (burst damage mazes and assassins) they get it with lot of AP + pretty safe active + good armor. That is an OP item. This change will, probably, ensure that AP assassins have to trade in AP for safety.
That said, this change is awesome for all sups ;)/ CDR based champs. (e.g.
We have to trade damage for safety. While all AD damage provides both. Nicee
Wenderwall1 votesWhich tank item provides damage and which AD item provides tankiness ?
Just wondering.
SnugglePuggle941 votes
Tanky and provides damage
Trinity Force/Maw can kind of be considered as AD items that provide tankyness/defense. TF has health and Maw has the shield and lifesteal. But note I said kind of.
Wenderwall1 votesSo you are considering health as tankiness ? I was specifically saying about Armor. No item gives Armor and AD, while there are items which provide Armor and AP.
TF/FM .. They are are not used by all, unlike . MaW is a defensive and to use it champs have to take a gamble.
SnugglePuggle941 votesWell yea health can be considered tankiness. I know there is no item that gives armor and AD, but they still have a lot of options for defense.
MaW is used for the damage too. That armor pen and life steal is stupidly insane.
Wenderwall1 votesLifesteal is triggered only when dying. So if a player see his HP and runaways that lifesteal if is of no use. I have seen way too many players runaway when the passive triggers.
Rain NT2 votesEven I think it was hit too hard lmao, I dont agree with the 20% CDR though, that would be rough.. too many 20% CDR ap items. I say increase the AP to 85-90 atleast. Like wth.. 70Ap... ZHONYA HAS 70AP... ARE YOU KIDDING ME RIOT LOL and I dont even play mid.
Pierce The Veal1 votesEven I think it was hit too hard lmao, I dont agree with the 20% CDR though, that would be rough.. too many 20% CDR ap items. I say increase the AP to 85-90 atleast. Like wth.. 70Ap... ZHONYA HAS 70AP... ARE YOU KIDDING ME RIOT LOL and I dont even play mid.
Yeah I agree, wtf, a major defensive item doesn't have an absolutely huge chunk of damage attached to it. That seriously doesn't make sense.
Rain NT1 votesIts an old school item, when you think of Zhonya and Deathcap you think BIG DAMAGE. With two differences, Deathcap is better for poke cause you can just stay in the back and shoot and do more cause youll have more AP. And Zhonya you'll still do damage but its more for frontline AP carries like Diana Twist Fate Fizz Kassadin champions who doesnt mind getting up and personal.
I think having a huge chuck of AP like 100 is too much.. But 70.. Really? Its an old school item, its known for its high AP. Atleast make it 80-85. Making Zhonya 70 AP is like an embarrassment for that item, like Kobe last year on the Lakers.. Thank God he performed during his last game #ClutchAsAlways. But Zhonya's AP shouldnt be so damn low, I understand it shouldnt be too high, but 70 is too low.
Pierce The Veal1 votesIts an old school item, when you think of Zhonya and Deathcap you think BIG DAMAGE. With two differences, Deathcap is better for poke cause you can just stay in the back and shoot and do more cause youll have more AP. And Zhonya you'll still do damage but its more for frontline AP carries like Diana Twist Fate Fizz Kassadin champions who doesnt mind getting up and personal.
I think having a huge chuck of AP like 100 is too much.. But 70.. Really? Its an old school item, its known for its high AP. Atleast make it 80-85. Making Zhonya 70 AP is like an embarrassment for that item, like Kobe last year on the Lakers.. Thank God he performed during his last game #ClutchAsAlways. But Zhonya's AP shouldnt be so damn low, I understand it shouldnt be too high, but 70 is too low.
I think a heavily defensive shouldn't also be known for its huge amount of damage.
Pierce The Veal1 votesWe have to trade damage for safety. While all AD damage provides both. Nicee
Yeah I mean I totally want to buy an item with 50 AD instead of 65-80 AD.
I agree MAW might be a little strong, but it's nowhere near Zhonya's at its peak.
I didn't see anyone complaining when literally every mage had Zhonya's built, yet when a single AD MR item starts getting built more often (and not nearly as often as old zhonya's) everybody freaks the shit out.
And note here: I play both AP and AD champions, my main being akali.
Jungle Lux God1 votesDo you realize that Zhonya's also has a price reduction? It's trading 30 AP and a slightly higher active cooldown for 10% CDR and 500 reduced gold and an arguably better build path. For some champions, this is an extremely significant buff because all they care about is the active, and for others it's still not a significant nerf by any means.
NeoBrawler1 votesDo you realize that Zhonya's also has a price reduction? It's trading 30 AP and a slightly higher active cooldown for 10% CDR and 500 reduced gold and an arguably better build path. For some champions, this is an extremely significant buff because all they care about is the active, and for others it's still not a significant nerf by any means.
Not really, any less AP on a burst mage is bad. 500 isn't that much. Just sit and clear for a couple waves.
Pierce The Veal1 votesNot really, any less AP on a burst mage is bad. 500 isn't that much. Just sit and clear for a couple waves.
I would trade 30 AP for 10% cdr almost any day.
I honestly don't know of any champion today who doesn't like to spam their skills, let alone a mage.
Literally the only champion that doesn't touch a cdr item is yasuo.
Jungle Lux God2 votes500 is significant when you can't afford to clear those couple waves. If you've farmed up enough gold to buy the new Zhonya's, you've probably used your mana already trying to clear waves and/or trade with the opponent. With the old Zhonya's, you cannot afford to "sit and clear for a couple waves" because you don't have the mana to do that, especially with the shift in core stats from mana regeneration to mana.
Additionally, the number of burst champions that buy Zhonya's as a counter to AD champions is vastly outnumbered by the number of DPS champions that purchase Zhonya's as a core item because the active is so powerful on them. Those heroes don't get hit nearly as hard by the AP decrease because their damage has much more uptime than burst casters do while still getting the active they want much earlier, while burst casters are still fine because 10% CDR means that their rotation comes up much more often, possibly outweighing the decrease in AP.
NeoBrawler1 votes500 is significant when you can't afford to clear those couple waves. If you've farmed up enough gold to buy the new Zhonya's, you've probably used your mana already trying to clear waves and/or trade with the opponent. With the old Zhonya's, you cannot afford to "sit and clear for a couple waves" because you don't have the mana to do that, especially with the shift in core stats from mana regeneration to mana.
Additionally, the number of burst champions that buy Zhonya's as a counter to AD champions is vastly outnumbered by the number of DPS champions that purchase Zhonya's as a core item because the active is so powerful on them. Those heroes don't get hit nearly as hard by the AP decrease because their damage has much more uptime than burst casters do while still getting the active they want much earlier, while burst casters are still fine because 10% CDR means that their rotation comes up much more often, possibly outweighing the decrease in AP.
I agree
Wolfram Oxford1 votesEven as someone who hates seeing posts about "MAW AND STERAKS ARE OP... PLZ NERF AND COMPENSATE MAGES", I agree that Zhonya's does need some compensation. I know it isn't supposed to be a primary damage item, it is mainly used for situational circumstances, but it seems harsh going from 120 s5 to 70 s6, they literally took off 50 ap and gave 10% cdr to compensate. Maybe Riot knows better, but it doesn't seem right. Zhonya's should have an even lower cost if it is going to keep its 70 ap. Perhaps make it 2500g item, or give it a unique passive of some sorts.
Gigahappytown1 voteszhonya is balanced
maw is too strong
zhonya was the best item in the game it gave lots of offensive power and huge defensive power
now it only gives one
as it supposed to
The power is in the active not the stats