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LP Loss Scaling with Score ?

FatBugXXIV··2 votes·394 views

I've recently gotten back into playing and fully admit I am no where near great. In all 7 total seasons I spent maybe a month in Gold. I usually get placed into Silver 5 and spend a majority of the season bouncing between S2 and S5. The amount of ups and downs is just silly. Being promoted a level has lost a lot of fun because I know there's a great chance I'll just be demoted shortly after.

(To the point)....

Why isn't a loss (or even a gain) in LP tied to your score in ANY way? I've gotten S- all the way to B+ and lost ~19 LP or even demoted. Last game 6/3/12 300+ CS. 3rd Overall damage, 2nd highest Vision score on my team, and an overall A+ Score. That decent play got me demoted back to S4 because my team lost.

Context: Us 29/33/52 (1 Inhib) Them 33/29/43 (Baron, 3 Dragons + Elder, All Structures) **42m Game **

Especially with the new (limited) honor system that I have other thoughts on (Honor for one person??) even really good, fun games that go toe to toe, back and forth, best map movement/control a Silver Tier could hope for, one team fight and blam - lost.... All that for..... a demotion.

This isn't a selfish thing. I feel bad for the LOSING team, or the guy Top Side who was beginning to become a beast, and did his best to do what he could being a Top Main. Only to get the shaft because Bot lane over-extended yet again "almost getting the kill this time."

I am OK Losing LP for a team loss. It's a team game. I simply ask that it be curved to play score which is obviously tracked and something to be proud of currently.

8 Comments

The Sword Saint2 votes

Because people would start trying to game the system by aiming for high ranks instead of trying to win the instant the game got difficult. Ex: suddenly everyone would just want to split push and powerfarm while avoiding fights and then surrender.

We don't need or want systems in place outside of the game itself that would alter the way people play and especially not ones that make people less likely to try to win.

FatBugXXIV1 votes

I get where you're going, but I think the % or scaling would still prohibit it if that was kept in mind.

If you surrender with your Split farm/avoid fights strategy and get S-, you still lose the game, and gain 0 LP. You still LOSE LP (maybe not all 19.. but 50%?). You don't get demoted either... but you've done nothing to further your progress in the standings.

If you prematurely end the game by surrendering and thus prevent the winning team from reaching S or A, well they still get the LP Gain. It could even be tied to Time (which i think LP was at some point?). If the game ends quickly your LP/Games played still stays appropriate.

[Thinking more about your idea] If you just split push HOPING to net more Wins than Losses, since your Gains will be higher than your LP Loss.. I guess that MIGHT be an issue? Maybe a significant win streak bonus? May have a side effect of Smurffers rocketing out faster.

Just spit balling. Not saying I am 100% Right or it can't be tweaked... you make a valid point though.

The Sword Saint1 votes

There are other additional problems like LP inflation. If you let losing players lose less lp than they normally would, you have to also give the winners less lp or else over time all players will eventually drift upwards to challenger given enough time.

Breaku2 votes

I don't see why letter grade should matter, you can get an S every game if you just play selfishly but it won't make you win, and won't always be the best play

Galiö2 votes

Well most of the time people don't know how to siege or split. So ending a game is frustrating. So if take my 3/0/10 score and afk jungle just because I figured hey if we gunna lose why not lose with least LP impact.

FatBugXXIV1 votes

Hmmm... I keep trying to come up with a response and keep coming back to "Because I wana win the game. That's why I play. To win. At minimum have a competitive game."

I realize that is NOT the person who is 3/0/10 afk Jungle farming..... But at Silver Tier, it's really not any better than what we see anyways... I personally would think THAT person was an upgrade over the current situation, but I understand that may not be a wide-spread concession others would make.

Mysticman891 votes

Well mastery grades aren't perfect, so not necessarily the best representation of your individual contribution to victory.

Keep in mind that your LP losses/gains are tied to your MMR though, so someone who is always trying their best and personally doing well is going to likely have an MMR higher than their rank, and hence in those games where the team is just too heavy, their loss only loses them ~15LP, while their wins might be closer to 25LP.

The system is designed to try to reward consistent performance over many games, and not be especially sensitive to the happenings of specific games, otherwise ones LP trends would get pretty noisy due to the effects of stomps one way or another. In a single game, maybe you actually had a god tier jungler who managed to feed you all kinds of kills even if you were only average, or maybe in another game you won lane hard but every other lane fed and then you got camped. It's hard for the system to tell those situations from your skill individually, but if you look across many games, you're the only constant between them so it can start to get an idea of your individual skill since you'll bias your win rate to be above or below 50% depending on how close your are to your 'true' rank, and MMR is a reflection of that.

FatBugXXIV1 votes

Heh, with my current run at Season 7 (little over 100 games) I would disagree. That even when I am fed kills, or the games my brain checks out and we still win, that I get a grade I didn't out-right deserve. Maybe I am not as aware of what the specific criteria are for a grade, but most the time as the nexus is falling I can say "I've played to 'X' grade" and I am not usually significantly wrong.

I see what you're saying about the MMR though. I know it's the "hidden" REAL ranking system. So leave it alone. Let me lose/gain MMR normally. Not like I see that on a game to game basis now. But give me the FEELING that I played well and it wasn't completely pooped on.

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