varus isnt broken. draven isnt broken. miss fortune isnt broken.

However comma·Oct 14, 2015·4 votes·506 views

because you know. they actually have to aim something. or position (draven)

Unlike some people]

cough

Oh. and mf dont take skill, but she dont murder everyone either.

15 Comments

Byakuya KuchikiOct 14, 20152 votes

vayne isnt broken. she is probably the 4th highest mechanically intensive champs in the game. stop crying because you lose to vaynes because they're better than you or you dont know how to counter her

A Miss FortuneOct 14, 20152 votes

Vayne doesn't really require much skill to play, she probably has one of the lowest skill floors for all ADCs since almost everything but the dash part of her Tumble and the stun part of her Condem are nothing but steroids. Even if she is REALLY hard to play, she has the highest pick rate in the game, being in nearly 50% of all games, while also having a really good win rate.

Right now Vayne's only real counters (having less than a 49% win rate against) are Miss Fortune, Ashe, and Mordekaiser. She actually counters almost every single meta ADC too, including Caitlyn.

Passive - MS steroid

Q - Dash + AD steroid

W - AD/AS steroid

E - Stun/knock back

R - Multiple steroids

PDE5 InhibitorsOct 14, 20151 votes

Well, Vayne also has one of the highest average games played by playerbase. SO OBVIOUSLY her winrate is going to be decent.

However commaOct 14, 20151 votes

of course vayne isn't broken per say. Get someone to burst her ass. freeze the lane etc. the point is how anyone who sucks ass can play her and get fed. basically. of course though. this probably doesnt exist in plat and up Edit: just spectated a diamond game. vayne shit on a graves apparently.

Hayaishi2Oct 14, 20151 votes

Who said Varus/Mf were broken?

Pretty sure nobody considers them something other than average.

However commaOct 14, 20151 votes

no their not. thats the point. their not broken. every champ should be at least average

Rabid HuskyOct 14, 20151 votes

actually marksmen are kinda weak overall with Vayne Jinx Tristana Kalista being the best since they bring what alotta adcs don't. Vayne brings tank busting like no other Jinx kinda the middle ground here her AS/range increase q a root a execute plus poke offers both fighting and objective busting potential and bringing tons of tower busting power and decent champ fighting but would probably lose to vayne and jinx in a fight with Kalista basically just bringing kiting more high level play stuff. over all tho i'd only say Vayne is broken since shes got so much in her kit a attack empowering pseudo dash 8% true damage plus self peel that can stun, procts w on top of her chasing passive that doubles or triples with ult and the ult that gives 60 ad with invisibility potential. really hard to defend her as not broken, hell i tried her and got a quadra easy

Zorae42Oct 14, 20151 votes

Haven't seen as many complaints about MF since they buffed her ult, but Varus is definitely in need of help. He's much more viable mid than adc right now.

He really should have his W as his passive and get a real ability to make up for it. Preferably something that gives him AS or Movespeed (potentially tied to how many marks he has up).

EndlessSorcererOct 14, 20151 votes

Varus is definitely in need of help. He's much more viable mid than adc right now.

Out of curiousity, what's wrong with that? He's always been a caster ADC, so it isn't exactly bad that he's capable of being played as an AD caster in addition to an ADC.

I quite like his current kit to be honest; he's very strong in certain situations and has exploitable weaknesses in others. I'd say that he's pretty balanced in his current state.

Zorae42Oct 14, 20151 votes

There's nothing wrong with it, it's cool that he can go to multiple lanes. I'm just saying that his kit is much more suited for an AD caster than an ADC.

I like Varus, he's the first ADC I really clicked with (the second was Quinn, go figure). But I argue that as an ADC his strengths are really minor and are out weighed by his weaknesses.

He's an early game bully with long range poke. He's on of the two champs with Grievous Wounds still in his kit (although it's situational on if you can get it to stick since you need to lock someone down on it), which makes him a decent-ish counter to sustain champs. His ult can be used to initiate team fights and to catch runners (assuming you can hit with it). It can potentially be used as self peel, but it moves really slowly, only roots for a short time, and spreads even slower.

But he falls off really hard late game because he doesn't have very good sustained dmg, no on demand burst, and (unless built for it) his Q falls off as well. He has no mobility and his peel is subpar. He's like a better poking Caitlyn with none of her safety.

That's why I think he needs to loose his current terrible passive for a better, slightly more accessible AS boost (or mobility, although that might make mid Varus too safe). If they tied it to the number of marks he has up, they could still give him delayed access to it (if that's the identity they want for him) but actually allow him better sustained dmg and make him slightly more relevant late game.

JustMyBassCannonOct 14, 20151 votes

Marksmen in general are mostly underwhelming; the best aren't overpowered, but merely actually worth playing instead of just having a team of bruisers protecting a burst mage.

A Miss FortuneOct 14, 20151 votes

I agree, most current ADCs played are overpowered, have insane snowballing potential, or have a ton of utility that they're relevant even if they feed.

Marksmen as a role is so bad right now, either you play someone who's totally busted (Vayne, Kalista, Jinx) or you don't. It didn't help that the Juggernauts made Marksmen an even more useless role than it is.

I hope the Marksmen rework solves a lot of issues. Like Marksmen being 100% reliant on their team throughout every single stage of the game, "late game" hypercarries hitting late game at 20 minutes (Vayne, Jinx), and some ADCs that are never a bad pick and have minimum to no hard counters. (Kalista, Sivir)

JustMyBassCannonOct 14, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Miss Fortune,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eT7Jxsxj,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-10-14T07:56:25.773+0000)

I agree, most current ADCs played are overpowered, have insane snowballing potential, or have a ton of utility that they're relevant even if they feed.

I believe you misread what I wrote.

{quoted}

Marksmen in general are mostly underwhelming; the best aren't overpowered, but merely actually worth playing instead of just having a team of bruisers protecting a burst mage.

I don't think Vayne, Jinx, Tristana, Kalista or whoever else is currently popular are actually overpowered by any significant degree. They're strong, and there are some areas that could do with some power shaving, but they are, for the most part, fine.

[{quoted}](name=A Miss Fortune,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eT7Jxsxj,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-10-14T07:56:25.773+0000)

Marksmen as a role is so bad right now, either you play someone who's totally busted (Vayne, Kalista, Jinx) or you don't. It didn't help that the Juggernauts made Marksmen an even more useless role than it is.

I hope the Marksmen rework solves a lot of issues. Like Marksmen being 100% reliant on their team throughout every single stage of the game, "late game" hypercarries hitting late game at 20 minutes (Vayne, Jinx), and some ADCs that are never a bad pick and have minimum to no hard counters. (Kalista, Sivir)

Yes, it would be nice. Hell, it would just be nice to see some variety in the Marksmen. A good number of them have pretty samey playstyles, regardless of their kit differences.

A Loyal SupportOct 14, 20151 votes

vayne may have mechanics, but that doesn't excuse her being overloaded and broken. besides, she's not that hard to play. mechanically intensive? you mean that point and click knockback/stun? the tumble that's really easy to do? or is it going in and out of invisibility? oh i know, it's destroying people with your auto attacks.

BaunjoOct 14, 20151 votes

I will admit, I really never thought vayne to be OP and I still do not. But when you are playing against a team that is 100% dedicated to protect vayne at all costs, the game becomes very hard to win.