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Rework and "simple champ" (especially Udyr)

Tony2c··5 votes·2,946 views

Dear Riot, I recently heard that Udyr will be reworked. True or false, this information makes me think about why are you reworking champion and choose to supress champ that some people have fun with. I'm Udyr main. I love this champ and his unique playstyle. Even if he is an auto attack champ and you, Riot, have to understand that. A good and fun champ is not a skill caped champ. With your numerous reworks of "old and obsolete champions", you're suppressing aspects of the game which make players like League. And I love League thanks to Udyr. If a kid love to play with an old toy, will you remplace it "because it is too old and simple" even if the child loves it ? I can understand you are maybe not proud of your old champs compared to the new with a lot of mechanics but some (a lot) player find fun playing with them and you can't supress champs only because you, Riot, don't like them. With all my respect Riot, I hope this message from a French player who love your game (and don't want to leave it for Fortnite) will makes you think about it.

37 Comments

WoΘxer4 votes

Unique play style? What unique this champion has?

A point to click stun? Checked.

A point to click bleed damage? Checked.

Mobility with W,E spam? Checked.

Udyr is another stat check champ.

Tony2c2 votes

You can do this bad argumentation for all champ (people who never played Udyr can't speak about it until they have understand the playstyle). Is there an other champ with a stance mechanic, I don't think so. Udyr is unique

Kioshek1 votes

You can't do this argumentation for all champs. Just for all "right-click" champs. And that's what RIOT is trying to get rid of. Bc it's just not fun to play against.

Tony2c1 votes

Right clic champ have their place in League

Ahri

Poke check Mobility check CC check

Twisted fate

Poke check Mobility check CC check

You see, all champions can be check listed League is not a skill demonstration, it's a game

Kioshek1 votes

Ahri is not "right click" at all. Almost all of her abilities are skillshots. The only one that isn't is W. But her "main" poke dmg, aka Q, is skillshot and her only hard CC, aka E, is also skillshot. ;) She can have all theese things (poke, mobility, cc) bc it's not just "right click to win."

When it comes to TF I can see that his point and click stun could be anoying. But other than that it's again skillshots! His poke, Q, is skillshot. His "mobility," if you want to count his ult as mobility, doesn't do much, it's like Tahm's ult. And his E is just passive ability. :)

RIOT has problems with champs like Kayle, Udyr,... bc their main thing is auto attacks.

Tony2c1 votes

I choosed those champs bc they are not RC I wanted to show you that ALL champ (RC or not) can be checked listed and that they all have common point. Udyr is unique but he have ccommon point with other champ. Like all champ in League

Kioshek1 votes

Well you understand it yourself... or atleast you should.

[sg-lux-2]

RIOT's main reason for reworking Aatrox was that he was right click champ. Same with upcoming rework of Kayle. And hopefully Trynda, Yi, Udyr and Jax will get theese reworks too.

Tony2c1 votes

Why all right click champ have to be reworked ? Is right click negative for League of Legend ?

Kioshek2 votes

In my opinion it is. It's just not fun to play against.

A lot of time, when someone complains about Yi on boards he get "you just need CC for him" kind of reaction. But let me just say one thing... just with one rune he can get 30% tanancity, that lessen the effect of mentioned CC, with one more rune he can get 15% more for 10s. If he decides to build item 3111 he get even more tenancity. So if the CC you use against him ends so fast it doesn't really help. Plus his Q makes him untargetable. With item 3508 he can use his Q almost 24/7. (exaggeration) So you have someone that is untargetable 24/7 and if you manage to lend some CC on him he is out of it faster than ever. And when he is not CCed basically almost all of his dmg comes from AA. And that's just not fun to me at all.

Tony2c1 votes

This argumentation can be apply to all champ bro. Every champ in League can be boring for someone. Yasuo, Riven, champ that are usally called skilled champ have tilting mechanics. If a champ is as overpowerd as you can discribe in your post, it's not because he uses RC, it's because he needs a nerf.

If RC champ have to be rework, all adc must be rework

Kioshek2 votes

Yes everybody has champs that they dislike. But that doesn't mean that champ is unhealthy for the game.

My most disliked champs are Yasuo, Leona and Draven but they are not unhealthy. They are just annoying for me. But even with that I would much rather get killed by Yasuo, that has to actually do something else that use his AA to kill me, than get killed by Trynda with Conq. that autoattacks me 3 times and I am dead.

ADCs are not problematic right click champions. You know why? Bc they don't have a lot of mobility, a lot of time they don't have any type of mobility abilities. And they are squishy. That doesn't apply to any mentioned right click champ.

Tony2c2 votes

If you were a SJW, you will say that RC champs are white cisgenre males

Kioshek3 votes

Good thing I am not right? :) If you read my comments again I even mentioned Kayle as one of the problematic RC champs. And if I am not wrong she is female. Who would guess that, right?! Gender doesn't mean anything when it comes to gameplay!

[sg-ahri-1] [sg-lulu]

Tony2c2 votes

Bro you make me laught like nobody on this Earth God save you

Kioshek3 votes

Well you make me laught as well. :shrug: Bc if your comments came to this... (aka trying to make me into SJW so my arguments are "less" valuable) means that you can't make any reasonable argument yourself.

[sg-miss-fortune] [sg-ahri-2]

Tony2c1 votes

You are a first degree man, that's insane XDDDDDD

Jerry SeinfeId2 votes

that's just not true. your further posts make this even clearer

  • Aatrox was reworked because on release he was busted as hell as he could just draintank anyone. after that he was left in a state that was subpar at best, becoming a feast or famine champion. Even after they tried to change things up his playrate was incredibly low and little interest was shown. Ironically when he was reworked he was actually quite viable for once.
  • Riot is still making new Rightclick champs like kai'sa. but oh yeah that's ok cuz she's an adc with "low mobility".... wait that doesn't seem to be the case, she actually has more than udyr.
  • skillshots aren't some kind of magical skill expression in this game. As a matter of fact clickons are more fair because skillshots become easier to dodge the further away you are and thus impact melee champs much more than ranged champs. just because a champ doesn't have any skill expression doesn't mean there's no skill in playing them.
  • There's many reasons champs get reworked (unhealty kit, impossible to balance, pro play (this one's bs but true Shen), unpopularity, weird identity that allows them to do a bunch of things which in turn makes it impossible to allow them to be good.
  • udyr is a rework candidate because he's extremely outdated. He can't be good at high level play unless you play the macro well, which luckily udyr is amazing at. And even then there's few people who are willing to put in the effort. Buffing him to be good in high elo isn't good either because his kit doesn't allow for that. He has skill expression in his stances and using the right one at the perfect time.
Frosted Tips3 votes

It is not like an old toy that is perfectly safe for a kid it is more like an old toy with lead paint so it needs to be treated that way. Carefully stripping all of the lead paint off and repainting it. Udyr can never truly be a healthy champion in league of legends until he gets that lead stripped off him and a new coat of lead free paint.

Tony2c1 votes

That's a good metaphor bro but I still worried by the fact that the paint will change the identity of the toy

Frosted Tips1 votes

Yup that is fine but to go along with the metaphor some old toys are dangerous and the only way to keep them is to completely change them and keep the look.

HentaiSimulator2 votes

People like to repeat what riot says but how is udyr less healthy than camille zoe kayn aatrox irelia etc.? I really dont understand that logic.

Tony2c1 votes

Bro I love you

Frosted Tips1 votes

When there is no way to out play something it isn't healthy. The only thing Udyr can do is run at you if he gets to you with enough health he kills you. You can't dodge anything. I'm not saying make 80 skill shots but look at Xin was point click no way to dodge his abilities and now you can and he is in a much more consistent place that people don't hate.

Bakhrod2 votes

quel crack il corrige rito game

Need Gold 4 Tent2 votes

A champ like Udyr has his own intricacies despite how simple his kit seems, in the sense that he has to work with the limited amount of tools he has.

Quikate2 votes

Wait until udyr becomes Riven 3.0

Tony2c1 votes

Omg he has 3 billions dashes that is so skilled :)

BIFF2 votes

Dear Riot. Some folks like the mechanically simple champs. Jax Udyr MasterYi Are simple to play. Yes they have the ability to win trades but so does any champ in league.

In no way are they more cancerous than Yasuo Zed Talon all of which have a higher ban and pick rate. And more success throughout any elo.

The reality is those "easy champs" drop off in higher elo (d3+) even for most OTP players. And in no way are they pick it to win it champs like Garen MissFortune Ahri highest win rates across all elos.

So if they are not instawin champs, or outlyers. Why are you completely reworking them? I thought you guys learned that "Change for the sake of change" is not a good buisness or game philosophy

When you throw around reworks you run the risk of an Aatrox scenario where you kill the spirit of the champ and the player base.

I enjoy league. I enjoy these easily playable champs that have been around since i began playing. Its that old school vs the new school champ matchup that i appreciate.

Im at a point in life where i cant commit 6 hours a day to "master" a "high skill" champ for the sake of "skill expression". I enjoy my low elo 1-2 hours of trades on the original simple mechanic champs. Please dont kill that.

Tony2c1 votes

"Don't kill that"... I hope Riot will not bro, I hope Riot will understand they have their place in league

lightwolf10302 votes

Rip trick2g

OurLestrade1 votes

They've made a few attempts at maintaining auto attack champions whilst giving them gates, my favourite champions both have that going on (Taric's passive, Shen's blade mechanic). They could do the same for Udyr.

Tony2c1 votes

That's 100% true but Udyr is 100% auto that's why I think Riot will change his playstyle anyway

Need Gold 4 Tent2 votes

So only ADC are allowed to rightclick? Classic boards.

Tony2c1 votes

Please don't mind potential grammatical faults and think about the message behind this post :)

DeathAnt1 votes

Yes

LunanEclipse1 votes

My problem with udyr is that he is generally in a bad position to balance. If he is strong he is completely oppressive due to how little counter there is to his kit if you don't have a dash to go over a wall or don't have hard cc too give you time to escape usually giving up an entire side of you're jungle. If he is weak he's really bad but still annoying to deal with like yasuo not always strong but always annoying. Since they started to promote the junglers fighting and dealing and half of them don't have kits for it he's in a really bad place in terms of able to be balanced.

BIFF2 votes

Udyr's problem is not his kit. He has had the same kit for 8 seasons and has been irrelevant for 7 of them Udyr's problem is

  1. this meta is perfect for him as it greatly rewards aggressive counter jungling and early game play which has always been Udyr's strong point.

  2. The new Rune system has effectively suplanted almost all of Udyr's weaknesses. By giving him up to 4 sources of movement speed (effectively giving him a gap closer). And tons of damage steroids from any rune page which only exaserbates the issue as Udyr will be putting that damage to use at level 2.

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