Kindred

thesinofwrathh··1 votes·2,363 views

I think that kindred is an maltreated champion don't you think guys??

14 Comments

The Ecdysiast1 votes

Please elaborate. Then we could really have a discussion.

thesinofwrathh1 votes

I think that kindred really need a automatic healing and more attack speed skins and she doesn't even have cinematic as the other champion sorry for my English

The Ecdysiast1 votes

{quoted}

I think that kindred really need a automatic healing and more attack speed and skins and she doesn't even have cinematic as the other champion sorry for my English

Well, what she needs is a new passive that can actually function. Being weak early but also needing to put herself in danger to get marks is counter-productive.

And they did have this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4ufa7hik08

thesinofwrathh1 votes

I agree with you and I main kindred so I wish they fix those problems

SylphEy31 votes

I love the concept an lore behind Kindred, however in terms of in-game performance, I think the developers did the character as a whole wrong. Kindred's very weak in early game, barely dealing any sufficient damage to the enemy, especially on top of their already slow movement and attack speed. Kindred takes alot of damage, but can't deal the same back to their opponents, resulting in lane disadvantages, even in 1v1 scenarios. For an ADC, they depend on the team too much. They feel more like a support character than a carry. I've also seen some people argue that, in exchange for their poor early game performance, they're quite OP in late game. I disagree with this as, by the time they complete their build in late game, the enemy team's already fed, so there's really no point in completing a build against a group of strong and fed enemy champions, especially if they team up. Literally any stat Kindred has, another champion trumps them in those specific areas. You want good attack and movement speed? Go Master Yi. You want the best range? Go Caitlyn. Damage? Literally 50 other champions trump them in damage stats. There's nothing good or strong about Kindred that makes up for their lack of specialty in stats. On the subject of their passive ability, there's really no point of trying to obtain the marks either, due to the same reasons above.(Crappy early game stats). The character needs some serious rework and buffs at this point. Kindred's slow, squishy, and does little damage. It's really unfortunate to see such a well aesthetically made character do so badly in game, just because of a biased and incompetent character balancing team.

Psyrix1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ePflk3kU,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-29T01:22:09.202+0000)

Well, what she needs is a new passive that can actually function. Being weak early but also needing to put herself in danger to get marks is counter-productive.

And they did have this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4ufa7hik08

They aren’t weak early... they still have an extremely strong dual potential once u hit lvl 3 and have a point in all three. You should win most fights unless u get ccd or jumped on. (Barring the particularly strong jg matchups). What they are is strong early, average midgame (if no stacks are taken) and strong late if they have more than 6 stacks... they were reworked so that they’d be less dependent on stacks. When it’s quite easy to get a 60-70% AS steroid from Q, there really is no need for a buff to attack speed.

Kindred is designed to be a champion that evaluates risks to potentially get an extremely high reward. Learn how to path better and which runes suit ur playstyle (press the attack, lethal tempo and conqueror are their best runes atm, with hail of blades also being a potential contender)

The Ecdysiast1 votes

{quoted}

They aren’t weak early... they still have an extremely strong dual potential once u hit lvl 3 and have a point in all three. You should win most fights unless u get ccd or jumped on. (Barring the particularly strong jg matchups). What they are is strong early, average midgame (if no stacks are taken) and strong late if they have more than 6 stacks... they were reworked so that they’d be less dependent on stacks. When it’s quite easy to get a 60-70% AS steroid from Q, there really is no need for a buff to attack speed.

Kindred is designed to be a champion that evaluates risks to potentially get an extremely high reward. Learn how to path better and which runes suit ur playstyle (press the attack, lethal tempo and conqueror are their best runes atm, with hail of blades also being a potential contender)

That's the thing. Anyone any good in the jungle will be able to jump on you. There don't exist many champions who can still jungle that can't do that.

Kindred used to be a champion that evaluated risk for an extremely high reward. They changed the reward, and now it's nowhere near good enough for the risk it entails. Unfortunately, they made fixes to the mark spawn points after that change, so we never got to see what Kindred would've looked like with more reliable marks on her better passive.

The issue with trying to tell someone how to play Kindred better is the fact that any enemy jungler on par with you shouldn't lose to a Kindred, either. Let alone ones that are better at their champion.

Psyrix1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ePflk3kU,comment-id=00000000000000010000,timestamp=2019-04-29T14:37:59.184+0000)

That's the thing. Anyone any good in the jungle will be able to jump on you. There don't exist many champions who can still jungle that can't do that.

Kindred used to be a champion that evaluated risk for an extremely high reward. They changed the reward, and now it's nowhere near good enough for the risk it entails. Unfortunately, they made fixes to the mark spawn points after that change, so we never got to see what Kindred would've looked like with more reliable marks on her better passive.

The issue with trying to tell someone how to play Kindred better is the fact that any enemy jungler on par with you shouldn't lose to a Kindred, either. Let alone ones that are better at their champion.

And Kindred has the tools to avoid most of them ( the Q)... I disagree with you on the passive highly... the current version is the better passive of the three imo. the original was just flat damage, something that made kindred wayyyy too feast or famine unless there was a team to actually assist you (or you got lucky)... Plus it was centered almost entirely around Lamb... with wolf having barely any agency. 2nd passive change increased the range and also gave wolf more agency by allowing him to be positioned areas instead of spawning on Lamb...but also incentivized building crit... something few people liked. Current passive gives the best of both worlds: Lamb gets increased range and attack speed. Wolf gets increasing current HP and Missing HP damage, the jg marks spawn with less random chance.. forces you to learn the jg... but at the same time, it meant that you weren't reliant on the jg marks, you could strategize around them, and instead use them to force the enemy jg to try and get them...in effect controlling where the enemy jg positions themselves on the map.... Objectively Kindred is an amazing jungler, what they are however is difficult, this is what makes them a niche pick amongst the community at large... but an extremely common pick in the pro scene. (was one of the most picked junglers this season so far.)

The Ecdysiast1 votes

{quoted}

And Kindred has the tools to avoid most of them ( the Q)... I disagree with you on the passive highly... the current version is the better passive of the three imo. the original was just flat damage, something that made kindred wayyyy too feast or famine unless there was a team to actually assist you (or you got lucky)... Plus it was centered almost entirely around Lamb... with wolf having barely any agency. 2nd passive change increased the range and also gave wolf more agency by allowing him to be positioned areas instead of spawning on Lamb...but also incentivized building crit... something few people liked. Current passive gives the best of both worlds: Lamb gets increased range and attack speed. Wolf gets increasing current HP and Missing HP damage, the jg marks spawn with less random chance.. forces you to learn the jg... but at the same time, it meant that you weren't reliant on the jg marks, you could strategize around them, and instead use them to force the enemy jg to try and get them...in effect controlling where the enemy jg positions themselves on the map.... Objectively Kindred is an amazing jungler, what they are however is difficult, this is what makes them a niche pick amongst the community at large... but an extremely common pick in the pro scene. (was one of the most picked junglers this season so far.)

It wasn't flat damage, it was %HP damage. Which is very, very important for a short-range ADC.

And Wolf is a failure of design in all regards. They didn't change how he works, they just put some damage onto his attacks.

Psyrix1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ePflk3kU,comment-id=0000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-29T15:19:05.997+0000)

It wasn't flat damage, it was %HP damage. Which is very, very important for a short-range ADC.

And Wolf is a failure of design in all regards. They didn't change how he works, they just put some damage onto his attacks.

I meant flat damage as in that's all it offered. Damage.... Current Kindred offers Range as well as attack speed alongside the damage. I did address that previous kindred did %HP damage, that's the part I was saying got the best of both worlds.... Current HP damage was given to WOlf's attacks.

And Wolf got a lot more agency with the W change... it's not perfect but it'd def an improvement... A rework to E would likely fix the problem (making it a skillshot focussed on wolf, alongside the autos from lamb to give the impression that it's both of them working to deal the damage. (I will say seeing wolf being thrown and chunking for a lot more damage than previously before does sell the idea more that Wolf is an integral part of Kindred.... You can't do much damage without Wolf being there (the W being active) and u feel the difference in damage... not jsut due to Lamb being able to jump around more, but each bite from wolf does feel like it's doing significant damage, especially late game when u get more than 7-10 stacks (something which is quite easy to do tbh providing u and ur team arent far behind.)

The Ecdysiast1 votes

{quoted}

I meant flat damage as in that's all it offered. Damage.... Current Kindred offers Range as well as attack speed alongside the damage. I did address that previous kindred did %HP damage, that's the part I was saying got the best of both worlds.... Current HP damage was given to WOlf's attacks.

And Wolf got a lot more agency with the W change... it's not perfect but it'd def an improvement... A rework to E would likely fix the problem (making it a skillshot focussed on wolf, alongside the autos from lamb to give the impression that it's both of them working to deal the damage. (I will say seeing wolf being thrown and chunking for a lot more damage than previously before does sell the idea more that Wolf is an integral part of Kindred.... You can't do much damage without Wolf being there (the W being active) and u feel the difference in damage... not jsut due to Lamb being able to jump around more, but each bite from wolf does feel like it's doing significant damage, especially late game when u get more than 7-10 stacks (something which is quite easy to do tbh providing u and ur team arent far behind.)

That's exactly why it's worse. AS is more available than ever with the new runes, so it's next to pointless on top of her Q's AS. And the fact she needs marks to get to the range of ADC's who play completely different to her is a major inconsistency.

I think Kindred just needs a full VGU to become more of a transformation type champion, where they switch out.

Psyrix1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ePflk3kU,comment-id=000000000000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-29T16:10:54.015+0000)

That's exactly why it's worse. AS is more available than ever with the new runes, so it's next to pointless on top of her Q's AS. And the fact she needs marks to get to the range of ADC's who play completely different to her is a major inconsistency.

I think Kindred just needs a full VGU to become more of a transformation type champion, where they switch out.

? Your argument then points out a flaw in ADC's in general then, because most of them build Attack Speed while still also having a steroid... and then ur argument falls apart even more when u consider there are TWO separate Keystones that allow you to pass the 2.5 AS limit. In regards to the second point about ADC's who play completely different... I'm confused. It's a transition, and quite a smooth one too. Kindred starts at 500 range, which goes to 575 at the 4th stack which then scales up to 650 by the 13th stack....... And each of Kindred's abilities aside from W and R gain the same increased range. W gets more %HP damage per stack... but since Wolf can be positioned certain areas, it doesn't mean u'll outrange Wolf's radius (unless u positioned poorly).

Kindred will never become a transformation champion. Goes literally anathema to what Riot wants. Yes they'd played with the theme of it being two champions in one... which wasnt succesfull, but the changes did solidify it being one champion made of two entities, as you literally can't play to the fullest extent unless you use Wolf. Placing a Skillshot focused/oriented around wolf entirely upon the E would enhance that ideal imo, but would still have the "working together" aspect of mounting dread (lamb proccing the marks... so it'd be sort of a double cast. I'd proposed something before, i'll link it later)

The Ecdysiast1 votes

{quoted}

? Your argument then points out a flaw in ADC's in general then, because most of them build Attack Speed while still also having a steroid... and then ur argument falls apart even more when u consider there are TWO separate Keystones that allow you to pass the 2.5 AS limit. In regards to the second point about ADC's who play completely different... I'm confused. It's a transition, and quite a smooth one too. Kindred starts at 500 range, which goes to 575 at the 4th stack which then scales up to 650 by the 13th stack....... And each of Kindred's abilities aside from W and R gain the same increased range. W gets more %HP damage per stack... but since Wolf can be positioned certain areas, it doesn't mean u'll outrange Wolf's radius (unless u positioned poorly).

Kindred will never become a transformation champion. Goes literally anathema to what Riot wants. Yes they'd played with the theme of it being two champions in one... which wasnt succesfull, but the changes did solidify it being one champion made of two entities, as you literally can't play to the fullest extent unless you use Wolf. Placing a Skillshot focused/oriented around wolf entirely upon the E would enhance that ideal imo, but would still have the "working together" aspect of mounting dread (lamb proccing the marks... so it'd be sort of a double cast. I'd proposed something before, i'll link it later)

Yes, but unlike the others, she needs to be able to keep her team from just losing early. Because she is a jungler.

And you're being kinda silly by saying, "you can't play her without wolf". You could. There's no reason at all for wolf to be in the kit. The E could just be a big arrow. The W could just be a runaan's-like shot from kindred's model. The fact it's Wolf has no part whatsoever in the actual function of the abilities.

Skillshort or not, it still doesn't matter that it's Wolf. It could still just be a big arrow. Maybe Wolf should be his own champion, and give them buffs when together similar to Xayah and Rakan.

Psyrix1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ePflk3kU,comment-id=00000000000000010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-29T16:55:23.640+0000)

Yes, but unlike the others, she needs to be able to keep her team from just losing early. Because she is a jungler.

And you're being kinda silly by saying, "you can't play her without wolf". You could. There's no reason at all for wolf to be in the kit. The E could just be a big arrow. The W could just be a runaan's-like shot from kindred's model. The fact it's Wolf has no part whatsoever in the actual function of the abilities.

Skillshort or not, it still doesn't matter that it's Wolf. It could still just be a big arrow. Maybe Wolf should be his own champion, and give them buffs when together similar to Xayah and Rakan.

Silly how? I'm saying that you can feel Wolf's impact in Kindred's kit, without any input from him u lose the %HP damage, you lose the CD on the Q from Kindred, thus also a dramatic decrease in the uptime of the AS steroid, and u also lose the chunk of missing HP damage from the E.

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