Crowd Control is OUT of control.

D O Cane··44 votes·15,281 views

Alright so, probably a lot of people addressed this topic already, and yet anything has to be done about it. League has become an absolute s***tfest, for what concerns Crowd Control abilities. This was less of a problem until a few seasons ago, when you actually had to decide to build damage over utility (CDR) or viceversa. Reaching that sweet 40% cdr and mindlessly chain CCing anything on sight, without even actually TRY to CHAIN it counting seconds or whatever , is now WAY too simple. Trying to exploit a window of opportunity in any teamfight, against almost any team comp has become simply impossible. If you are a bruiser or a tank, you just go in TO DIE. You can't peel, you can't land a full combo.

You can manage to dodge a few enemies' skillshots, sure, but they can cycle them indefinitely and eventually you'll get hit by something. Everybody has some sort of hard CC nowadays. And if you get hit, you are done. Your resistances count nothing. True damage is now almost everywhere, MR has had its effects reduced for a long time now.

This is now aknowledged by everybody, but there are still just 2 items and 1 rune that give tenacity. And don't forget that tenacity has multiplicative stacking, so if you eventually reach that "90%" you have actually thrown your moneay in an effective 60% tenacity. But hey, that doesn't count against knockups, displacements etc. You get pinned down and bounced around like a roadkill dog until you get greyscreen.

A few champs now have abilities with built in tenacity now (Urgot, Rammus, Garen). Thanks for nothing mama Riot. Most of these abilities reduce duration of foresaid cc (excluding knockups) but they have inheritly affect you with slows (WTF!).

And then there's Ornn. With his Bellow's Breath. Oh boy. It was good when you could actually deny some bulls***t CC and tank its damage with A SHIELD. Which got removed. Making you a slow walking suicide marionette burping useless low range flames.

When will riot actually address this problem and give some kind of wide spread counter that's not a 2 seconds item active that, by the way, can't be built on any kind of champ without having its money wasted? The damage with champ design has been done. Rules have been broken, champs that are bruisersmageassassins with invisibility mobility utility and boggling damage have been created. It's too late to go back in an acceptable ETA on that. There's a need for an actual solution to this gameplay toxicity.

40 Comments

Cavemantero23 votes

The damage is what is out of control. The cc we had now for was back in the day when the damage output was far less than it is now.

GigglesO19 votes

Yep, lower damage and the cc is fine again.

D O Cane3 votes

Either one or the other. Commutative factors. Works either way

Warlord Rhinark15 votes

The problem is the overwhelming amount of Crowd Control unaffected by Tenacity.

Gargle Manjuice11 votes

It's more a matter of damage, as well as CC. Every new champion has to have some form of CC, and it isn't necessary. Make SOME champions ones for CC, and others just for damage. On that note, lower the damn damage. It feels like this game is now about who can do the most damage in 1 second before u die vs. the other champion. It's really stupid. World of Warcraft was also plagued with this problem, so they just gut every class's abilities to simplify it.

Nea1044 votes

I think this is the point. Damage is too high, and everyone but who is working on this game knows it. So, every CC is far more dangerous than how it should.

Plus, bad design has become a plague, so now a lot of champions are too "generalist", ie. have a too versatile kit. Less strategy, more protagonism.

CØulrophobia8 votes

I love this post tbh, you perfectly explained how out of control league has been powercreeping lately. Can you name one champion that does not have CC in some shape or form? Just look at the newly released champions out of 9 champions released from 2017 onwards only Kai`Sa has no CC whatsoever.

KaiSa, Master Yi, Mordekaiser,Sivir and Katarina are only champions in the game that do not have some form of at least mild CC. Only 5 champions, compared to the entire roster that number might as well be 0. We have come to a point where I am thinking we shouldnt even consider slows a CC since they are god sent compared to the amount of stuns and knockups there are.

Riot cant create a champion without CC or Mobility anymore, because noone would play them, and the best part is that the moment they add CC and mobility the champion just gets more out of the control. HF everybody soon we will have champions with 3 dashes and 3 forms of CC in their kit, which honestly wont be too broken because Sylas has 3 dashes and 2 CCs in his 3 basic abilities alone.

[sg-shisa]

D O Cane6 votes

In this regards, I'd like to bring the example of Illaoi. She has a shitton of damage, but she's slow and her inly CC is a short slow that needs to commit a lot to proc, hitting the soul of the grabbed victim. Except from that, she has to rely on comp or enemy cooldowns to do her job properly and not die and has obvious strenghts but also obvioys weaknesses. This should be the way a champ is developed. Give it an identity with vantages and disadvantages.

Alzon2 votes

{quoted}

I love this post tbh, you perfectly explained how out of control league has been powercreeping lately. Can you name one champion that does not have CC in some shape or form? Just look at the newly released champions out of 9 champions released from 2017 onwards only Kai`Sa has no CC whatsoever.

KaiSa, Master Yi, Mordekaiser,Sivir and Katarina are only champions in the game that do not have some form of at least mild CC. Only 5 champions, compared to the entire roster that number might as well be 0. We have come to a point where I am thinking we shouldnt even consider slows a CC since they are god sent compared to the amount of stuns and knockups there are.

Riot cant create a champion without CC or Mobility anymore, because noone would play them, and the best part is that the moment they add CC and mobility the champion just gets more out of the control. HF everybody soon we will have champions with 3 dashes and 3 forms of CC in their kit, which honestly wont be too broken because Sylas has 3 dashes and 2 CCs in his 3 basic abilities alone.

[sg-shisa]

Ezreal Lucian Nidalee don’t have CC either.

PB4UAME1 votes

Kaisa has a long ranged slow that gets pretty spam-able, especially for AP builds.

Sire Hippington6 votes

You can manage to dodge a few enemies' skillshots, sure, but they can cycle them indefinitely and eventually you'll get hit by something. Everybody has some sort of hard CC nowadays. And if you get hit, you are done. Your resistances count nothing. True damage is now almost everywhere, MR has had its effects reduced for a long time now.

this mostly summs it up.

CDR is by far not the main issue, tanks mages and supports, the primary providers of CC, did allways have the means to easily reach 40% cdr, though it's true that atleast mages gave up a bit more damage for it. However, CC in kits increased, nearly all tanks have about 3 differnt forms of hard cc, often even with soft CC ion top of that, new bruisers like camille or reworked Irelia or Aatrox pack a bounch off CC, alot of the CC is hardly impacted by tenacity, CDs regardless of CDR tend to be shorter and on top of all that we have the huge issue of damage creep and resis feeling worthless. Beeing CCed for 2 sec as a tank ins S2 was like 'meh, whatever', now it's basically a death sentence later on in the game.

And as you said, this leads to melees hardly doing anything in a teamfight unless they can take down a target befor it really responds and windows of opportunity barly exist anymore.

With damage lower, it would be much less of a problem, though the overall uptime of CC in most teamcomps still needs to be adressed regardless.

TeCoolMage5 votes

remember when anivia was considered high CC?

laughs in slow resistance tenacity and bad scaling with CDR

Serge THE GREAT5 votes

Don't forget that a few years ago Riot nerfed Mercury Treads and (IIRC) changed the way Tenacity ratios work.

D O Cane5 votes

Just like they reduced or totally removed bonus movement speed from bruiser items, just to make it even harder..

Hensetsu4 votes

We actually have less CC these days.

In the old days Wombo Wombo's were WAY more common. + People played Tanks more frequently.

I think what you're mentioning is a consequence of an abundance of damage tbh.

D O Cane2 votes

Like I said, the situation is equally affected by both absurd damages and CCs. One of the two needs to be changed. Personally I find CC more toxic, because it gets to a point where you simply CAN'T outplay it, once you get it by one. Damage can be actually dodged nost of the times or mitigated in some way (shields, resistances). CC makes you useless as a frontliner.

Soraka Actually3 votes

Why not just spam cc yourself? Meet the meta face on with counter-toxin.

D O Cane18 votes

Ofc I do. But then I die instantly. Being a frontliner feels like being a sacrifice lamb man. I feel like i give 0 contribute. The teamfight gets won by who gets to have more CC users alive.

Soraka Actually1 votes

[{quoted}](name=No Pain No Cane,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eFceyvvF,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-01-23T01:29:35.244+0000)

Ofc I do. But then I die instantly. Being a frontliner feels like being a sacrifice lamb man. I feel like i give 0 contribute. The teamfight gets won by who gets to have more CC users alive.

Speaking of which, though I'm usually jungle I have had some seriously hilarious games with Teemo/Fiddle prebot. Embracing the toxin is key to enjoying this game from what I've seen, I'm rather new so I don't have any superior meta to compare cc spam to.

D O Cane7 votes

Considering that Fiddle is one of those top tier toxic harbingers, I'm not surprised. "Oh you got this close, boo, go back!" Feared for 2.5 seconds.

Axzarious15 votes

Tryndamere is now best tank. Can't die for 5 whole seconds!

D O Cane6 votes

During which he probably gets pinned to the ground until he dies.

Ragnaveil4 votes

Soaks more than what a tank could in this meta lol

hewhodoesnotcare3 votes

ALL ABOARD THE HYPE TRAIN TO HELL. CC COMPLAINTS NOW. FIRST ITS TANKS BEING TANKY. THEN ADCS BEING OP. THEN SUPPORTS BEING OP. THEN ASSASSINS/DAMAGE TOO OP AND NOW ITS TOOOOO MUCH CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC.

The Bad Touch1 votes

{quoted}

ALL ABOARD THE HYPE TRAIN TO HELL. CC COMPLAINTS NOW. FIRST ITS TANKS BEING TANKY. THEN ADCS BEING OP. THEN SUPPORTS BEING OP. THEN ASSASSINS/DAMAGE TOO OP AND NOW ITS TOOOOO MUCH CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC.

Yeh that's cause a lot of things are shit right now. But it's all an issue with there being too much damage.

CC is too strong because damage is too high. One cc hits, any champ explodes. & True damage is too strong because it invalidates defensive options. True damage in general has the same issue as above.

We currently live in a meta where defensive itemization is pointless and generally playing a tank is unfun. Also playing adc is unfun. Jungles hate the damn incoming changes, mage mids feel stepped on by mage bot support who get nearly as much gold as they do without having to cs.. enchanters are irreverent and generally speaking no one is happy about the state of things other than mage sups.

The Bad Touch3 votes

Yup. Just try landing against. Xerath Jhin

Eventually you eat a stun or snare behind your fucking turret, and get gibbed.

Nyarlathοtep2 votes

Considering xerath's kit consists of dodgable spells, its only natural getting stunned will lead to you getting heavily damaged. Besides come on now, hitting a long range stun is nigh impossible if the enemy has eyes.

The Bad Touch1 votes

{quoted}

Considering xerath's kit consists of dodgable spells, its only natural getting stunned will lead to you getting heavily damaged. Besides come on now, hitting a long range stun is nigh impossible if the enemy has eyes.

Again people seem to ignore half of each post. It's the combination of Xerath and Jhin that make it strong.

Even faker was never able to dodge EVERY single skill shot lol.

If anything in that lane touches you at any past 6 the only thing that saves you is just leaving lane or a couple supports that likely you won't have.

If one use of Jhin ulti hits, Xerath ulti kills you due to the slow. If a luden's proc hits you trying to farm and jhin W hits, you die. If one use of xerath ulti hits you jhin W is deadly. Ect ect.

Even playing safe and dodging god damn everything in solo queue where you can't count on jungle help, or really even having a decent support.. you'll still suffer on CS.

Even playing perfectly it doesn't much matter if your support feeds them either.

Nyarlathοtep

Oh you meant together. As a duo bot. In that case i cant argue. Still, thats just good synergy. Just like how good lucian functions with a braum. Nerfing champs that synergy well with each other is well, quite frankly, impossible. Without taking in account the backlash from the community. The least they can do to avoid it is force mages to farm, by reducing base damage and increasing ratios. Im always extremely pissed off when i see a tank to have higher ap ratios than a mage. Yeah im looking at you nunu, amumu, malphite, and probably one other that im missing.

Weiss Guertena2 votes

I think it's a bigger problem that damage is high enough to assure you getting gibbed within a span of a single CC effect than champions having said CC effects. Been back at actually playing after a long break and holy shit, every hard CC lasting for more than a split second might as well read "deal 100% of target's max HP as true damage".

Gangstarr6662 votes

And our tenacity runes are so useless against the millions of fking knockupsin this game.

DarkmoonDiana1 votes

Idk, you can buy items to stop stuns, you cant buy items to stop getting 1 shot, at least not anymore.

Vyntrius1 votes

There are actually two runes that give tenacity.

Kadexe1 votes

Tbh I think CC creep has been a worse issue than the damage creep. You get hit by one slow, and suddenly you get hit with a train of roots and knockups from skillshots.

D O Cane1 votes

Exactly this.

Meep Man1 votes

I think CC isn't all that much more insane now than it was back then. The difference now is what can happen during the CC chain that happens now. Heck, before we just had long duration targeted CC.

5050BS1 votes

Knockups are. It use to be Roots stuns and slows with a FEW knockups.

Now EVERYONE has a knockup it seems.

ΛVICII1 votes

That´s what I had in my mind a long time ago. Im tired of ´´I cant move´´ because I get cc after cc

But seems like people think that is not a problem..

L9 Caps1 votes

Just revert back to season 4 or 5 to a point where damage is not such a big issue... CC is fine, damage is what is out of control.

Chronomay1 votes

I have a bigger issue with the fact that cc abilities can end up with large damage ratios/flat damage.

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