Tristana balance idea

Crunky7·Oct 21, 2014·2 votes·554 views

I think that the reset on Tristana's jump is completely unnecessary. I think if it was removed she might be balanced. That and maybe some late game damage. Agree?

17 Comments

DREEZY562Oct 21, 20142 votes

dude she is balanced already. after that nerf they gave her she doesnt get strong until way late in the game. she used to be strong at level 7 or 8 if you can finish an item. even with boots and a BF she did major damage as soon as her Q was rank 3+ they nerfed her attack speed per level so now she doesnt do anything till level 14+ or 2+ items done. her jump is somthing iconic about tristana. its not going to change anymore than it has the last few patches (reduced slow)

67chromeOct 21, 20142 votes

Agree?

Tristana was seen as a sub-optimal marksman pick until The Bloodthirster along with Randuin's Omen and Warden's Mail were nerffed, with the specific intent by Riot to actually make marksman that auto-attack played as opposed to allowing AD mages like Corki, Ezreal, and Lucian to dominate for the 4th season in a row.

Given the current state of marksman, I'm not sure I'd even call Tristana a problem - it's more the class as a whole, specifically tied to their current itemization, that seems to be the problem.

Tristana is also overhyped from what I've seen in Worlds. The team that won it all, SSW, completely exploited the late-game carry meta by just winning before late game even happened.

ProfDrDeathOct 21, 20142 votes

The main problems I see with current AD carries, in issues that cannot fixed by numbers on champions alone, are item 3031 as a too strong single item powerspike and kits that contain everything.

Infinity Edge being too strong a power spike on its own is due to it giving really good AD, an increase in a multiplier (crit damage) and a lot of crit chance on top of that. My suggestion for Riot would be to have a look at the necessity for IE to give as much Crit Chance, and possibly move some of the crit chance and cost of the item (like, 5% crit chance and 300 gold) laterally to item 3046 , item 3087 and possibly item 3142 - retaining the two-item powerspike of the IE first build, but opening up options like combining an early defensive item 3072 with a stronger multiplier item.

The second point, kits that contain everything, refers to AD carries that possess all three of these secondary traits, possibly in addition to their more champion-specific/champion-unique perks: Mobility (especially fast repositioning), long range on abilities, autos or both and good AoE waveclear damage without much trade-off. With that, I specifically refer to Caitlyn Corki Lucian and Tristana .

67chromeOct 23, 20141 votes

The main problems I see with current AD carries, in issues that cannot fixed by numbers on champions alone, are as a too strong single item powerspike and kits that contain everything.

IE alone will get wrecked by a Trinity Force in terms of spiking - along with Kingblade, Ghostblade, Thornmail, or Sunfire Cape.

IE's power spike is pretty weak by itself, the strength of that item lies within it's synergy with Phantom Dancer or Statik Shiv and especially with a Last Whisper on top of it.

IE's greatest strength is that, 40 minutes into the game, you've exponentially increased your damage by 222*2 = 8 with all that crit, where everyone else is doing more a 2+2.5+1+0.5= 6 kind of deal.

Infinity Edge being too strong a power spike on its own is due to it giving really good AD, an increase in a multiplier (crit damage) and a lot of crit chance on top of that. My suggestion for Riot would be to have a look at the necessity for IE to give as much Crit Chance, and possibly move some of the crit chance and cost of the item (like, 5% crit chance and 300 gold) laterally to , and possibly - retaining the two-item powerspike of the IE first build, but opening up options like combining an early defensive with a stronger multiplier item.

Again, IE's strength is that it synergizes really well with other items Late Game. It kind of sucks on it's own.

Also - noteworthy increase in AD and AD's cost-effeciency early is why IE is rushed over something like Static Shiv that has objectively more useful capabilities. You need ~120 AD before AS and Crit become cost-efficient %DPS multipliers.

Furthermore, the thing that allows critical strikes to function in LoL is specifically there large and predictable values. Making crit very infrequent can cause a lot of consistancy issues, and 1/4 chance for a critical on IE is already slightly low for the investment in the item.

Finally - as I mentioned before, IE's power comes with late-game scaling, which is most heavily reflected in it's 250% critical strikes passive. If you wanted to cut back on IE's power, making the crit-boosting spike lesser would probably be the safest way to go.

The second point, kits that contain everything, refers to AD carries that possess all three of these secondary traits, possibly in addition to their more champion-specific/champion-unique perks: Mobility (especially fast repositioning), long range on abilities, autos or both and good AoE waveclear damage without much trade-off. With that, I specifically refer to and .

Mobility, range, and AoE is something a wide range of champions have. It's pretty rare to find champions without certain capabilities rather than unusual to find champions with certain capabilities.

So including Tristana as having solid range and AoE with little trade-off is kind of awkward. For one, her ability range is medium, not long. Her auto-attack range is also only long end-game, so she's medium range for the first half of the game - not that impressive. Finally, Tristana's AoE is really weak. Many games have been lost in the LCS from teams trying to turtle into late-game and realizing Tristana just doesn't cut it for clearing waves safely. There is a pretty massive difference between Zigg's level of range and AoE and Tristana's. One can 1-shot minion waves from 1k+ range, the other must get within the vast majority of point-click and gap-closer ranges to clear a wave, with a longer time investment in doing so at that. Statik Shiv is pretty much manditory on Tristana, and in many cases a better first-buy than IE, because of her weak wave-clear. And if you consider that strong AoE with no trade-off, everyone with Sunfire Cape, Statik Shiv, Hydra, or Hurricane in their build has strong wave-clear with no tradeoff. Needing to dump gold on an item just so you can clear waves is a big weakness.

Critmaster GarenOct 21, 20142 votes

get rit of the knockback on her ult. the burst damage on its own is enough.

i dont have a problem with the reset tbh, but the knockback is overkill in her kit. a lategame tristana already has the longest auto range in the game, a decent attack speed steroid and an inbuilt flash.

but what makes you practically require 3 gap closers to be able to fight her (not even counting her support), is that she can just hit r on anything that by some miracle comes too close, and instantly disengage without even having to care about her positioning.

i would also argue, that her w should be interruptable by cc during the animation instead of finishing.

MarthianOct 21, 20141 votes

Her W is already interrupted by knockups.

junglerboy16Oct 21, 20142 votes

She is already balanced, she got hit really hard over the last few patches.

KzooCrasherOct 21, 20141 votes

Changing her jump to not reset will literally kill ap tristana

Knight SoIaire Oct 21, 20141 votes

not like she lives a good life anyway (kill everything early get stunned and die late, also banshess removes her)

KzooCrasherOct 21, 20141 votes

But as it is a very different play style from her norm but fairly viable so its like getting rid of a whole champion something riot has never done.

Knight SoIaire Oct 21, 20141 votes

ap yi and ap trynda

KzooCrasherOct 21, 20141 votes

I knew you'd bring that up except they didn't get rid of those play styles... yi and tryndo are used much the same way it is COMPLETELY different skill usuage from ap trist a completely different champ basically.

Knight SoIaire Oct 21, 20141 votes

ap yi got removed, he relied oh insanely high q and w scaling and resets -resets were changed so yi does get only partial resets -meditating was changed to be more usable for not dying than tanking (even with ap your heal will get weak with higher hp meaning that you dont heal effectively)

q does no longer scale with ap entire playstyle of ap yi removed

ap trynd relied on spamming his e and healing for insane amounts with even without his fury -riot totaly gutted the ap trynd healing by changing the scaling , the new heal was increasing the amount of health regained per fury point with ap instead of flat heal for ap

ap tristana is just a case of design abuse - old champions were given good ap scalings to make them versatile in builds but there were problems

one build was always flat better
some times the more toxic build (ap yi or ap trynda) became better and caused problems

so riot started removing those or taped them to values limiting their use

ap trist was never realyy supposed to exist but riot though that they can give her some ap scalings on stuff that shouldnt scale with ad (just like it was with yi and trynda)

chumblerOct 21, 20141 votes

Or how about make other carries not shit and actually fucking fix AD itemization?

Knight DevoutOct 21, 20141 votes

I think that Tristana is , at the moment, the only champion who relies exclusively on autoattacks for damage in lane. She lacks scaling on her abilities lategame (magic damage will often get a base 50% mitigation from runes and mr/level alone), and while in lane her abilities aren't reliable for poking, except maybe E , but ranking E first makes her push her lane really, really fast, forcing her under the enemy turret.

It's all about itemization, back when the AD itemization made AD casters like Lucian and Ez scale better, she was seen as a mid-tier marksman, since most auto-attack item were weaker, except Bloodthirster, which, granting 100 AD, still worked better with AD casters who could buff their damage from AD ratios.
Now that Autoattack items like Infinity Edge and Zeal have been buffed, she's stronger and back to top tier?

Does that means nerf? It could be, but Tristana is an hyperscaling ADC, so if they nerf her, they will most likely nerf her already weak lanephase to bolster her identity.

DREEZY562Oct 21, 20141 votes

I think that Tristana is , at the moment, the only champion who relies exclusively on autoattacks for damage in lane. She lacks scaling on her abilities lategame (magic damage will often get a base 50% mitigation from runes and mr/level alone), and while in lane her abilities aren't reliable for poking, except maybe E , but ranking E first makes her push her lane really, really fast, forcing her under the enemy turret.

It's all about itemization, back when the AD itemization made AD casters like Lucian and Ez scale better, she was seen as a mid-tier marksman, since most auto-attack item were weaker, except Bloodthirster, which, granting 100 AD, still worked better with AD casters who could buff their damage from AD ratios.
Now that Autoattack items like Infinity Edge and Zeal have been buffed, she's stronger and back to top tier?

Does that means nerf? It could be, but Tristana is an hyperscaling ADC, so if they nerf her, they will most likely nerf her already weak lanephase to bolster her identity.

they nerfed her at ALL levels by reducing her attack speed per level.

Knight DevoutOct 22, 20141 votes

Well, yeah, I was talking about possible future nerfs.